Discussion: View Thread

A fellow doctoral student and I are working on a paper for possible
presentation to a logistics conference. In addition to being students,
we are both BPR consultants.

Our paper's topic is the pitfalls related to the implementation phase
of a BPR project - which might be an ERP implementation.

I found the redherring site that someone sent in response to Marina's
post very interesting; and this paper was particularly beneficial.

If anyone knows of any other research being done in this area, I would
really appreciate hearing about it.

Thanks

Conna Condon
DBA Candidate, Nova SouthEastern Univ.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Prasad, Biren" <prasadb@UGSOLUTIONS.COM>
To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: Logistics X e-commerce


> Marina
>
> Here is a research paper that I wrote about logistics and e-commerce.
> You may find useful in your research....
> Thanks
>
> Biren Prasad, Ph.D.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marina Vidal [mailto:vidal_mbr@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 11:12 AM
> To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Subject: Logistics X e-commerce
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am a post graduate student in Marketing and I had
> this subject, Logistics, last month.
> To make a long story short, I have to make a research
> about Logistics and e-commerce.
> Does somebody know something else about this, home
> pages, or have some study about this??
>
> I would thank indeed any help!
>
> Have a great day.
>
> Marina Vidal
> TECON Rio Grande S/A
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com
>
>

Donna Condon writes:

>A fellow doctoral student and I are working on a paper for possible
>presentation to a logistics conference. In addition to being students,
>we are both BPR consultants.
>
>Our paper's topic is the pitfalls related to the implementation phase
>of a BPR project - which might be an ERP implementation.

I must confess to being a little puzzled by the second paragraph above. As
I read it, "an ERP implementation" is presented as an example of a business
process reengineering (BPR) project. Do I have that correct? Further, if
I do have it correct, can someone explain to me how implementing ERP
qualifies as a BPR project?
--

Fred Nickols
The Distance Consulting Company
"Assistance at A Distance"
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

I would agree with Fred that an ERP project is not, and should not be
undertaken solely as a BPR project. That said, all of the ERP
implementations I have been involved with in my 5 years as an
implementation consultant have involved some BPR work since the software
and the business frequently do not work exactly the same way. In those
cases where there is a mismatch, we tell our clients: First see if you can
live with changing the way your business process works. If you can't, then
investigate modifying the software.

Steve Harper
=======================================
Email: Steve.Harper@pragmatek.com
Website: www.PRAGMATEK.com
PRAGMATEK Consulting Group, Ltd.
Rochester, NY
=======================================
"One must learn by doing the thing, for though you
think you know it, you have no certainty until you try."
--Aristotle
=======================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Nickols [SMTP:nickols@WORLDNET.ATT.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 6:26 AM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: BPR - Implementation phase

Donna Condon writes:

>A fellow doctoral student and I are working on a paper for possible
>presentation to a logistics conference. In addition to being students,
>we are both BPR consultants.
>
>Our paper's topic is the pitfalls related to the implementation phase
>of a BPR project - which might be an ERP implementation.

I must confess to being a little puzzled by the second paragraph above. As
I read it, "an ERP implementation" is presented as an example of a business
process reengineering (BPR) project. Do I have that correct? Further, if
I do have it correct, can someone explain to me how implementing ERP
qualifies as a BPR project?
--

Fred Nickols
The Distance Consulting Company
"Assistance at A Distance"
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

I have to agree.... changing the tool (ERP) is not the best way to fix a
process.

However, I have been sitting here trying to think of a major change in my
IT
tools that hasn't caused a change in my processes. To me, my tools are
3/6th
of my process. (People, facilities, data, software, hardware, procedures).
There might be a manufacturing tool change that improves manufacturing
without
changing who does what with what when and where ... well, when will be
faster, I hope. (just kidding). Perhaps it is a matter of what we call
BPR.

Since bringing up this topic it has surfaced more and more that it is
possible
that people are jumping to "change the tool" instead of "take this
opportunity
to improve the processes as you realign them to the new tool."

Thanks for the thoughts, Steve.

Conna Condon
DBA Candidate, Nova SouthEastern Univ.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Harper" <steve.harper@PRAGMATEK.COM>
To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: BPR - Implementation phase


> I would agree with Fred that an ERP project is not, and should not be
> undertaken solely as a BPR project. That said, all of the ERP
> implementations I have been involved with in my 5 years as an
> implementation consultant have involved some BPR work since the software
> and the business frequently do not work exactly the same way. In those
> cases where there is a mismatch, we tell our clients: First see if you
can
> live with changing the way your business process works. If you can't,
then
> investigate modifying the software.
>
> Steve Harper
> =======================================
> Email: Steve.Harper@pragmatek.com
> Website: www.PRAGMATEK.com
> PRAGMATEK Consulting Group, Ltd.
> Rochester, NY
> =======================================
> "One must learn by doing the thing, for though you
> think you know it, you have no certainty until you try."
> --Aristotle
> =======================================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Nickols [SMTP:nickols@WORLDNET.ATT.NET]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 6:26 AM
> To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Subject: Re: BPR - Implementation phase
>
> Donna Condon writes:
>
> >A fellow doctoral student and I are working on a paper for possible
> >presentation to a logistics conference. In addition to being students,
> >we are both BPR consultants.
> >
> >Our paper's topic is the pitfalls related to the implementation phase
> >of a BPR project - which might be an ERP implementation.
>
> I must confess to being a little puzzled by the second paragraph above.
As
> I read it, "an ERP implementation" is presented as an example of a
business
> process reengineering (BPR) project. Do I have that correct? Further, if
> I do have it correct, can someone explain to me how implementing ERP
> qualifies as a BPR project?
> --
>
> Fred Nickols
> The Distance Consulting Company
> "Assistance at A Distance"
> http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
> nickols@worldnet.att.net
> (609) 490-0095
>

Conna Condon wrote:

> [snip]
> Since bringing up this topic it has surfaced more and more that it is
> possible that people are jumping to "change the tool" instead of "take this
> opportunity to improve the processes as you realign them to the new tool."

In 1964 G. Taguchi visited PR China. Their equipment was 10 years out of
date, Soviet supplied, and they complained at its inability to function well.
"You need to optimize your process first, before getting new equipment,"
Taguchi told them. His point being that they didn't know what they could do
until they had used his method (applied Designed Experiments). I don't believe
they listened closely.

Almost every golfer who ever purchased a new set of clubs in the hope that the
new design would cure a bad slice knows in his or her heart that the swing and
stance, the process, is the key, not the fiber in the shaft.

As Howland Owl said in the old Pogo comic strip, "I cannot tell a lie. He did
it!"

Changing the tool is much easier, emotionally, than changing how the person
executes the process. Especially when that person is also decides how to get
improvements.

I continue to argue that there is no process without a product, and no product
without a process. We must work hard to achieve a balance between them. As
managers we must keep out constant watch for process improvements - they are so
hard to see. As 'change agents' we must find ways to bring those improvements
to the surface for implementation which are emotionally satisfying to the
majority of the 'troops' so they will help discover and use them.

Apology for the run-on. I couldn't help myself - I'm in this argument with a
client at the moment, too.

Jay
--
Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA

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