Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance

    Posted 11-16-2001 06:03
    The irony is that the Professors who are now complaining have evidently
    failed previously to figure out what "performance" means.

    The German lawmakers simply pointed out that tenure isn't the answer ---
    nor even a factor.

    Regarding the potential demise of the humanities, note that the majority
    of practicing managers world-wide continue to point out that the primary
    capability of a good employee is the ability to communicate. The
    ability to program a computer is rarely mentioned.


  • 2.  Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance

    Posted 11-16-2001 08:24
    As management educators, why, then, do we not pull out all the
    stops and make communicating the thread and passion of every
    offering. Why do the Humanities have this grand opportunity?

    David


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
    Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:03 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to
    Performance


    The irony is that the Professors who are now complaining have evidently
    failed previously to figure out what "performance" means.

    The German lawmakers simply pointed out that tenure isn't the answer ---
    nor even a factor.

    Regarding the potential demise of the humanities, note that the majority
    of practicing managers world-wide continue to point out that the primary
    capability of a good employee is the ability to communicate. The
    ability to program a computer is rarely mentioned.


  • 3.  Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance

    Posted 11-16-2001 20:37
    David et al,

    I agree, why don't we "pull out all the stops and make
    communicating the thread and passion of every
    offering"? No one has a patent on it! Let's go!

    Edryce

    --- "Fearon, David (Management)"
    <Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu> wrote:
    > As management educators, why, then, do we not pull
    > out all the
    > stops and make communicating the thread and passion
    > of every
    > offering. Why do the Humanities have this grand
    > opportunity?
    >
    > David
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
    > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:03 AM
    > To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] Germany Set to Link
    > Professors' Pay to
    > Performance
    >
    >
    > The irony is that the Professors who are now
    > complaining have evidently
    > failed previously to figure out what "performance"
    > means.
    >
    > The German lawmakers simply pointed out that tenure
    > isn't the answer ---
    > nor even a factor.
    >
    > Regarding the potential demise of the humanities,
    > note that the majority
    > of practicing managers world-wide continue to point
    > out that the primary
    > capability of a good employee is the ability to
    > communicate. The
    > ability to program a computer is rarely mentioned.


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  • 4.  Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance

    Posted 11-17-2001 12:02
    I cannot find the reference right now but several years ago researchers
    followed the careers of a group of AT&T employees for a period of (as I
    recall) 25 years. The finding that stands out in my mind was that liberal
    arts majors did much better as far as promotions to, and performance in,
    management than did business majors. Apparently, at least some of the
    liberal arts do a much better job of helping their students learn to
    communicate.

    Ralph W. Parrish
    University of Central Oklahoma

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of Fearon, David
    (Management)
    Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 7:24 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance


    As management educators, why, then, do we not pull out all the
    stops and make communicating the thread and passion of every
    offering. Why do the Humanities have this grand opportunity?

    David


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
    Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:03 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to
    Performance


    The irony is that the Professors who are now complaining have evidently
    failed previously to figure out what "performance" means.

    The German lawmakers simply pointed out that tenure isn't the answer ---
    nor even a factor.

    Regarding the potential demise of the humanities, note that the majority
    of practicing managers world-wide continue to point out that the primary
    capability of a good employee is the ability to communicate. The
    ability to program a computer is rarely mentioned.


  • 5.  Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance

    Posted 11-20-2001 02:47
    I suspect that the answers are a lot more complex than major...

    Do our graduates have poor communications skills? I'm certain that some do and
    some don't. I do know that most of our business majors leave with signficantly better
    communications skills than they arrive with. Many complain about the volume of
    written assignments while going thru classes. More than a few grads later tell us
    how much they use those writing skills in their careers.

    Our liberal arts folks started a study a couple of years ago in which they collected
    data on the quantity of written assignments required in each of our university's
    classes. The study quietly disappeared when they discovered that the science and
    business programs required more written assignments per course than did the
    liberal arts courses. Of course, the business faculty didn't laugh *too* much when
    the results leaked out... (It helped that their brochure on writing porfolios contained
    photos which were almost all of business classes and business students).

    David Ackerman
    University of Alaska Southeast




    > I cannot find the reference right now but several years ago
    > researchers followed the careers of a group of AT&T employees for a
    > period of (as I recall) 25 years. The finding that stands out in my
    > mind was that liberal arts majors did much better as far as promotions
    > to, and performance in, management than did business majors.
    > Apparently, at least some of the liberal arts do a much better job of
    > helping their students learn to communicate.
    >
    > Ralph W. Parrish
    > University of Central Oklahoma
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    > [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of Fearon, David
    > (Management) Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 7:24 AM To:
    > MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU Subject: Re: Germany Set to Link
    > Professors' Pay to Performance
    >
    >
    > As management educators, why, then, do we not pull out all the
    > stops and make communicating the thread and passion of every
    > offering. Why do the Humanities have this grand opportunity?
    >
    > David
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
    > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:03 AM
    > To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to
    > Performance
    >
    >
    > The irony is that the Professors who are now complaining have
    > evidently failed previously to figure out what "performance" means.
    >
    > The German lawmakers simply pointed out that tenure isn't the answer
    > --- nor even a factor.
    >
    > Regarding the potential demise of the humanities, note that the
    > majority of practicing managers world-wide continue to point out that
    > the primary capability of a good employee is the ability to
    > communicate. The ability to program a computer is rarely mentioned.
    >


  • 6.  Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance

    Posted 11-19-2001 09:11
    Again, Ralph, if they do a much better job of helping
    their students learn to communicate, then why don't we?
    What are our barriers to that? Are they real and necessary
    to impart our subject, or encrusted bad habits and outmoded ways?

    I'll offer a horrendous speculation. Liberal arts colleges
    tend to be highly selective. I'll never forget the time
    a LA professor said in a meeting of college educators that
    his school got the "robust ducks", that all they had
    to do was "baste them" in four years and they were on
    to successful careers. Does this mean we in business schools
    are seeing the less advantaged? That was his point.

    David

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ralph W. Parrish, Ph.D. [mailto:rparrish@ucok.edu]
    Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 12:02 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to
    Performance


    I cannot find the reference right now but several years ago researchers
    followed the careers of a group of AT&T employees for a period of (as I
    recall) 25 years. The finding that stands out in my mind was that liberal
    arts majors did much better as far as promotions to, and performance in,
    management than did business majors. Apparently, at least some of the
    liberal arts do a much better job of helping their students learn to
    communicate.

    Ralph W. Parrish
    University of Central Oklahoma

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of Fearon, David
    (Management)
    Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 7:24 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance


    As management educators, why, then, do we not pull out all the
    stops and make communicating the thread and passion of every
    offering. Why do the Humanities have this grand opportunity?

    David


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
    Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:03 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to
    Performance


    The irony is that the Professors who are now complaining have evidently
    failed previously to figure out what "performance" means.

    The German lawmakers simply pointed out that tenure isn't the answer ---
    nor even a factor.

    Regarding the potential demise of the humanities, note that the majority
    of practicing managers world-wide continue to point out that the primary
    capability of a good employee is the ability to communicate. The
    ability to program a computer is rarely mentioned.


  • 7.  Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance

    Posted 11-20-2001 05:44
    Ralph Parrish (University of Central Oklahoma) wrote: "I cannot find the
    reference right now but several years ago researchers followed the
    careers of a group of AT&T employees for a period of (as I recall) 25
    years. The finding that stands out in my mind was that liberal arts
    majors did much better as far as promotions to, and performance in,
    management than did business majors. Apparently, at least some of the
    liberal arts do a much better job of helping their students learn to
    communicate."

    That study is reported in:
    Hersh, Richard. 1997. Intentions and perceptions: A national survey of
    public attitudes toward liberal arts education. Change, 29,
    2(March/April):16-23.
    ABSTRACT: To find out more about the root causes of the growing
    disaffection with liberal arts colleges, Hersh enlisted the support of
    the AT&T Foundation in commissioning a nationwide survey of
    constituents. He highlights 12 of the many findings of the survey.
    It is possible to buy this article for $4 online at:
    http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/change/

    A heap of excerpts from it are in:
    http://www.xu.edu/assess/office/news/newsletter/vol2/vol2no1.pdf

    I found a limited amount of discussion of this study on three sites:

    An AT&T study found that, because of their interpersonal skills
    humanities and social science grads were superior in management skills
    to business majors, math majors, and science/engineering majors.
    AT&Ts research also found that LAS graduates moved into middle
    management faster than the math and science/engineering majors, and that
    they were reaching top level management in equal proportions to those
    who had a business degree. But what is perhaps more important, is that
    the LAS graduate had a higher rate of job satisfaction than the non-LAS
    graduates!
    http://www.las.uiuc.edu/students/careeraids/business_careers.shtml

    The skills most valued by employers are best summed up in a 1996
    survey funded by AT&T Foundation. In the survey, business leaders,
    including CEOs and human relations managers, overwhelmingly agreed that
    they value the long-term outcomes of a college education. Not only does
    it prepare you for a first job, but also for a long and variable career.

    These employers believe that a broad-based education produces
    students of strong character with generalized intellectual and social
    skills and a capacity for lifelong learning. Business leaders pointed
    out that students with a broad liberal arts background are often better
    able to see things in a new light and make sense of ideas in different
    contexts. Such students excel at problem solving, critical thinking, and
    "learning to learn." They are also better able to communicate in a
    clear, coherent manner and work cooperatively with diverse individuals
    in a variety of settings (Hersh, 1997).
    http://www.indiana.edu/~career/fulltime/selling_liberal_arts.html

    According to Hersh (1997), business executives suggest education should
    include more internships and work-study opportunities, more emphasis on
    oral and written communication skills, self-discipline, time management
    and strong work habits, development of independent and critical thinking
    skills, and greater emphasis on cooperative work habits and team
    problem-solving
    http://www.uvm.edu/~vtconn/journals/1998/walbert.html

    HOWEVER, THE LIBERAL ARTS WERE FAULTED TOO:
    What is an Undergraduate Education All About?
    Lois Graff
    School of Business and Public Management
    The George Washington University
    Richard Hersh, President of Hobart and William Smith Colleges,
    with support from AT&T, commissioned a study (1994) to assess public
    attitudes toward liberal arts education.
    Hersh began his study with the long accepted assumption that the
    liberal arts represent the best education for meeting the complex
    demands of the twenty-first century. He found to the contrary that
    today's parents and students placed higher value on salable technical
    skills necessary to find and fill the all-important first job. He also
    found that although business community gives lip service to valuing a
    liberal arts education (e.g., communication skills, foreign languages
    and cultural understanding, critical judgment, flexibility, and a sense
    of responsibility and ethics), they also report a "disconnect between
    current [liberal arts] programs and the ideal." Many business leaders
    fault liberal arts programs for not developing good work habits, not
    encouraging maturity and independence, not promoting ethical behavior,
    and lowering academic standards.
    Implications
    Whether a liberal arts education or a professional school
    education really provides the "best" preparation for life is an old
    argument. The point is, that's not the point.
    None of the primary concerns voiced by the business community or
    the critical values attributed to a liberal arts education correspond to
    the content knowledge being delivered. The potential value of an
    undergraduate liberal arts degree should be the development of process
    skills and character attributes.
    However, members of the liberal arts faculty, including those on
    college-level curriculum committees, concentrating content and the
    relative amount of time allocated to each of the respective content
    areas, rather than on so-called life-values.
    And why not? The training and preparation as well as the
    promotion, tenure, and mobility of an individual faculty member is
    closely tied to the content area of expertise. Promoting such things as
    good communication skills or a sense of responsibility do not go very
    far toward achieving the professional aims of faculty. Nor are they as
    easy to assess as whether or not a student knows a particular fact or
    can use a given formula.
    Let's assume for a moment that we view this from the perspective
    of an individual institution that embraces the mission of personal and
    professional development of its students.
    Its first step would be to define such development and to define the
    role of faculty in that process. The institution would have to determine
    how to measure success as an institution and a faculty member's success
    within the organization.
    Even if we wished to uphold former liberal arts standards,
    mobility between institutions would demand loyalty to the profession as
    defined by content area. The health of the institution, as well as the
    satisfaction of the individual, requires that this mobility be
    maintained. Adding substantial developmental responsibilities to the
    plate would mean allowing some of these duties to the profession to
    slip. Also, sharing in the responsibility for curriculum emphases are
    many other individuals who complete each student's "board of advisors."
    Change is the operative word, or in this case, the cooperative
    word for attacking the problem. The challenge is to bring stakeholders
    together in open discussion to develop consensus on the objectives of
    the system, mutual understanding of what each would like to receive from
    the system, and a determination of what each can contribute. This is a
    very different model than the faculty-centered processes in place in
    most educational institutions today; it requires that faculty let go of
    some of its prerogatives in order to meet the needs of the whole. It
    implies a more meaningful role for business partners, for university
    staff, for parents, and for students, themselves, and, perhaps, a
    different definition of an academic "course."
    Reference
    Marchese, T. (1994, November). What our publics want, but think
    they don't get, from a liberal arts education, Ted Marchese interviews
    Richard Hersh. AAHE Bulletin, 47 (3), 8-10.

    www.camfordpublishing.com/oth/archive/94-95/vol3_no3c.htm (was not
    working when I tried but was cached at Google at:
    http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:TZktPVGyacY:www.camfordpublishing.c
    om/oth/archive/94-95/vol3_no3c.htm+%22public+attitudes+toward+liberal+ar
    ts+education%22+at%26t&hl=en
    .

    Cybercollegially,
    Charles Wankel
    Mg-Ed-Dv List Director
    wankelc@stjohns.edu