At 2:31 PM, 1/8/97, gmiksik wrote:
>Ugh! Now THAT (9:100) statistic is insane! Perhaps the notion of a
>"grievance board" or some other such invention would be just as
>appropriate. In any event, the laws are complicated and change on a
>dime, and even the "best of breed" manager will NOT be able to know what
>to do all the time.
OK, Gary, 'splain to me how an ER person has time to be aware of all the
laws, etc. but a manager doesn't.
<Personally, even if a knowledge-based system was
>available to managers to guide them, the human frailties of judgment,
>opinion, and beliefs are constantly at play.
It seems you are saying that ER people have some level of altruism or
something that a plain manager just doesn't have.
>I despise bureaucracy. But
>I despise even more people in positions of authority who do not (or WILL
>not) understand their own shortcomings and use their positions to
>influence/affect others. Discrimination can happen to anyone at anytime.
>Good dialog everyone!
>
>-Gary
>Gary Miksik
>Process & Systems Reengineering
>University Computing Services
>Indiana University
>Bloomington, Indiana
>
>
>
>On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Jack Ring wrote:
>
>> Gary,
>> This makes sense to me. Thanks. However, please consider that there are
>> many ways to deal with the need for an impartial avenue besides having an
>> ER department. I believe that constructing the avenue and maintaining it
>> is the proper role of anyone with title (and power) "manager," and as long
>> as managers can leave ethics and due process to others, we will always have
>> the problem because these problems, like the Quality problem, are
>> facilitated from the "top-down"
>>
>> This in no way is meant to demean ER people or disparage their work and
>> dedication.
>>
>> OBTW, here is an interesting statistic. In the Federal Government one can
>> discern the ratio of staff that do ER and HR to total staff. Would you
>> believe it is about 1 to 3 HR persons per hundred others except in one
>> Department where it is 9 HR per hundred others. That department is Prof.
>> Reich's Dept. of Labor.
>> Why?
>>
>> At 12:22 PM 1/8/97, gmiksik wrote:
>> >There is too much discrimination in the world to say that an organization
>> >does NOT need a "corporate presence" when it comes to certain employee
>> >relation issues. Sexual harrassment is one. Age discrimination is
>> >another. And the list goes on and on. There HAS to be an impartial
>> >avenue that an employee can turn to in order to, many times, survive.
>> >
>> >This is NOT a question of ignorance. This is precisely BECAUSE we ARE
>>human.
>> >
>> >-Gary
>> >
>> >Gary Miksik
>> >Process & Systems Reengineering
>> >University Computing Services
>> >Indiana University
>> >2711 East 10th Street
>> >Bloomington, Indiana 47408-2671
>> >PH: 812-855-7349
>> >FX: 812-855-8299
>> >EM:
gmiksik@indiana.edu
>> >
>> >
>> >On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Jack Ring wrote:
>> >
>> >> Employee Relations is what you get as a non-value adding group on your
>> >> organization chart if you do not make managers responsible for the well
>> >> being and growth of the employees assigned to them. Giving management a
>> >> common support service of employee administration (insurance claims, etc.)
>> >> may be prudent but relieving managers of the responsibility of
>>establishing
>> >> and maintaining appropriate relations with the employees (and with each
>> >> other) only leads to overhead and alienation. Carried to the extreme,
>> >> Employee Relations becomes Human Resources. This is the sign that
>>managers
>> >> are so ignorant of what makes their business tick that they consider
>>humans
>> >> to be resources rather than the primary value-adding agents in the
>> >> business.
>> >>
>> >> Note that many of the more modern Silicon Valley companies do not have HR
>> >> nor ER departments.
>> >>
>> >> At 9:34 AM 1/8/97, THE HUMAN ELEMENT Amery Boyer wrote:
>> >> >>SUE WHITTEN wrote:
>> >> >><<<What is employe relations and what things would an employee relations
>> >> >>department be responsible for?>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>DOUG KALISH wrote:
>> >> >><<
>> >> >>really all about - The responsibility to develop and maintain proactive,
>> >> >>positive employee practices and procedures that will enhance the
> prospects
>> >> >>of healthy employee relationships within the organization!>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Employee relations, depending on the context, could also involve
>> >> >>implementing and executing an internal communications function, which
> would
>> >> >>provide such things as internal newsletters, scheduling executive/staff
>> >> >>brown bags, etc.
>> >> >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>> >> >>Melanie Schmidt
>> >> >>e-mail: mschmid2@mail.state.wi.us
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >Attached is a position description for a manager of staff relations
>>that I
>> >> >have used for 3 managers over the last 6 years.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Attachment converted: Jack's HD#1:MGRSR.WPD (????/????) (000080F1)
>> >> >Amery Boyer
>> >> >5688 North Street
>> >> >HALIFAX NS B3K 1N4
>> >> >Tel: 429-9217
>> >> >Fax: 429-9217
>> >> >e-mail: amery@fox.nstn.ca
>> >> >homepage: http://fox.nstn.ca/~amery
>> >>
>> >> Jack Ring
>> >> Innovation Management
>> >> 32712 N. 70th St.
>> >> Scottsdale, AZ 85262-7143 USA
>> >> 602-488-4615
>> >> Fax) 602-488-4616
>> >>
>>
>> Jack Ring
>> Innovation Management
>> 32712 N. 70th St.
>> Scottsdale, AZ 85262-7143 USA
>> 602-488-4615
>> Fax) 602-488-4616
>>
Jack Ring
Innovation Management
32712 N. 70th St.
Scottsdale, AZ 85262-7143 USA
602-488-4615
Fax) 602-488-4616