Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  Lead - long

    Posted 01-27-1997 04:43
    Dear List,

    We seem to be all over the place with the Manager vs Leader
    thread. Some of you seem to be frustrated, others put-off, some
    quite defensive and still others have managed to make it appear to
    be an incredible waste of time - a lesson in semantics. And many
    others think the secret is somehow locked in the human psyche or
    found in leadership genes.

    So I thought about it some more and decided to take a risk to
    continue this thread a little more, for my own selfish reasons. I
    think that having a better understanding of this will make or
    break a lot of Corporations...and in my position of being
    responsible for 'change' I have a lot of motivation to better
    understand the dynamics of this dilemma. So at the pain and
    discomfort of some, here I am again.

    Thankfully, there are enough people on this list to pacify me and
    to continue exploring this complex problem...others are developing
    blisters from pressing the delete key.

    I have decided to add another twist to this. I have decided to
    give you some examples of what I am seeing and experiencing and
    then ask you for assistance in understanding what is taking place.
    Perhaps it was an assumption on my part that Leadership and
    Management were in play here, when in reality there may be
    something else involved.

    There are two very different management styles that I have seen,
    felt, heard and experienced in the last 15 years. I don't know
    what to call them, but I can describe them. What is even more
    amazing, I have witnessed managers change styles, so I believe it
    IS possible to teach.

    Situation A

    Top managers (6 or so people) have been in meetings for 3 days.
    When your boss steps out for another cup of coffee, you ask, "What
    is going on?"..to which s/he replies, "Oh, we have a problem that
    we are planning around. I'll explain later." And rumors are
    flying that there is a big layoff coming or a serious problem that
    might drive us out of our jobs, or even close the company. So,
    everyone waits for the WORD.

    Finally a meeting is scheduled and it is mandatory that you
    attend. The meeting is an hour and a half long. It becomes
    apparent that we have a problem, but nothing like the ones
    described in the rumors that were floating around. No one saw it
    coming, no one knows why we didn't, but we have this problem and
    somehow it is our fault.

    Things are going to change...we are told. We are shown charts and
    graphs, spread sheets and overheads, showing how bad the problem
    is. At the end of it all we are asked, "Any questions?" and no
    one has a question, for fear of dragging this thing on further, or
    appearing stupid. Everyone agrees...we KNEW this was going to
    happen. We blame management for not listening to us. We claim to
    have seen the problem coming for years now.

    Later at the watercooler or coffee pot, everyone is asking, "So,
    what do you think about this meeting", and the only correct
    response is "Sounds serious".

    Some of us had the privilege of attending this meeting, others
    have to hear it explained to them by us. To explain something to
    someone that you yourself don't understand is easy...all you have
    to do is say, "things are bad...we need to change."

    Then everyone does pretty much one of two things: they wait around
    and hope the 'thing' goes away (and continue doing things as they
    always have), never to be mentioned again (which happens more
    often than not), or they observe others and try to appear to be
    busy working on 'it'.

    If you take the risk to go to the person who originated the
    concern and ask questions, you see the look of disappointment on
    this persons face and they ask..."Didn't your boss explain it to
    you?" and they immediately respond by calling your boss into the
    room and say, "So-and-so here doesn't understand the "thing".
    Didn't you go over it with him? Please take him back and explain
    it again."

    Your boss is now more concerned that you didn't come to him/her
    and takes more time to explain how you should not go above his/her
    head than to explain the 'thing'.

    Your department seldom conducts internal meetings, so the only
    time the 'thing' is mentioned again is during your semi-annual
    evaluation. "What are YOU doing to fix the 'THING'?"..since the
    answer is "Not enough", you and your boss outline some 'RESULTS'
    that you want before the next evaluation. IN a nutshell, your
    'results' state: "I will fix the 'thing'".

    Every blue moon, your department has a meeting to discuss progress
    on the 'thing'...if the 'thing' is not long forgotten and replaced
    by other 'things'. Everyone dumps problems on the table about why
    the 'thing' is no better...and it is subconsciously assumed that
    by stating problems, you have solved them.

    "We now have a better understanding of the 'thing'" your boss says
    and you leave knowing that somehow you and everyone else in the
    meeting let the boss down by having problems with the 'thing'.
    Guess what?!! The next meeting comes around and no one is having
    problems with the 'thing'.

    By luck, by chance, by fate, in some area of the Corporation the
    'thing' is actually getting better. Everyone is invited to hear
    how successful Department # has been in fixing the 'thing'. SO
    now we know it can be fixed. So what is wrong with us that we are
    making the 'thing' better? We can no longer use the excuse that
    the 'Thing" is impossible to fix. We know...we are leaving too
    early, mis-managing our time, not prioritizing, etc. We get to go
    to a Franklin planning session. Now we know the exact dates and
    times that we didn't fix the 'thing'.

    Now, with the pressure on...we all look to see who we can blame
    for the 'thing' not getting better in our department. IF only
    Sales would....or accounting did things this way....the thing
    would improve for us. Now we know...we cannot possibly 'fix' the
    'thing' with so much against us. The 'thing' is not even our
    problem..it is theirs...that is why they were able to improve
    it...they caused it.

    Every time an emergency crops up...everyone's adrenalin pumps
    in...now we have a chance to really "bite" the 'thing', and guess
    what...it happened because of someone else...so now I can fix it
    and really shine.

    Eventually the 'thing' gets worked out and the manager takes
    another promotion. So, many people highly regard, fear and
    respect this manager, who knows so much about 'things' as to
    identify them for us and insist that we fix them.....as evident in
    our semi-annual evaluation.


    SITUATION B

    A Cross-functional team is brought together to analyze Customer
    data. The team defines the Customers standards and then looks at
    our performance to determine whether or not we are meeting the
    Customers needs.

    Our boss comes back to our department and explains the 'gap' and
    says, "I know that as a team, we can design a process to fill this
    gap". For several days in a row, we meet, argue, debate, fight,
    complain, whine, toss-out ideas and explore. Finally, we come to
    a conclusion that we can all live with. We share our process with
    other departments and argue, fight, debate, brainstorm and develop
    a common goal. We turn the problem into a vision where there is
    no room for the "thing" to exist...and we have determined
    measurables that will tell us if we are getting closer to fixing
    the 'thing' or further away.

    We meet regularly to discuss where we are in regards to the
    'thing'. Our boss insists that when we are getting further away
    from the 'thing' we need to look at our process and come up with
    some type of Corrective Action.

    I find myself talking about the 'thing' to my family. I find my
    eyes being drawn to articles in papers and magazines where others
    have experienced the 'thing' and fixed it. All of a sudden I have
    a lot of ideas and information to share with my team.

    Our boss wants to hear our ideas. S/he wants to know what kind of
    help we will need. S/he trusts that we can do it. When we feel
    down, s/he shows us how far we have already come.

    Our boss also tells us to remember what we did that works, so we
    can repeat it and share with other teams.

    My boss says...it is five o'clock...go home and get some rest, you
    will need it tomorrow when we get together on this 'thing' again.

    SOME CONCLUSIONS

    The 'thing' or problem is the same in both situations...but in one
    situation I feel helpless. I think that if I cannot find the
    person to blame, then I will get blamed. I don't want any share
    in the responsibilty because I don't want my name attached in any
    way to the 'thing'. I never really know how close or far away I
    am from fixing the 'thing'. My boss in both situations is the
    same person...and believe it or not it has happened.

    I thought that my boss in the first situation was a manager and in
    the second a leader...I don't know. I just know he behaved
    differently.

    I too have changed my style within the last 3 - 5 years. Being a
    leader is difficult because the focus is more on nurturing people
    relationships and bringing them together to work on processes,
    than it is on results and finding blame for what doesn't work.

    Whattya think?

    Rick Corcoran
    corcoranre@excelinc.com


  • 2.  Lead - long

    Posted 01-27-1997 20:43
    You had neither management nor leadership! K. Kemper
    >
    >Dear List,
    >
    >We seem to be all over the place with the Manager vs Leader
    >thread. Some of you seem to be frustrated, others put-off, some
    >quite defensive and still others have managed to make it appear to
    >be an incredible waste of time - a lesson in semantics. And many
    >others think the secret is somehow locked in the human psyche or
    >found in leadership genes.
    >
    >So I thought about it some more and decided to take a risk to
    >continue this thread a little more, for my own selfish reasons. I
    >think that having a better understanding of this will make or
    >break a lot of Corporations...and in my position of being
    >responsible for 'change' I have a lot of motivation to better
    >understand the dynamics of this dilemma. So at the pain and
    >discomfort of some, here I am again.
    >
    >Thankfully, there are enough people on this list to pacify me and
    >to continue exploring this complex problem...others are developing
    >blisters from pressing the delete key.
    >
    >I have decided to add another twist to this. I have decided to
    >give you some examples of what I am seeing and experiencing and
    >then ask you for assistance in understanding what is taking place.
    > Perhaps it was an assumption on my part that Leadership and
    >Management were in play here, when in reality there may be
    >something else involved.
    >
    >There are two very different management styles that I have seen,
    >felt, heard and experienced in the last 15 years. I don't know
    >what to call them, but I can describe them. What is even more
    >amazing, I have witnessed managers change styles, so I believe it
    >IS possible to teach.
    >
    >Situation A
    >
    >Top managers (6 or so people) have been in meetings for 3 days.
    >When your boss steps out for another cup of coffee, you ask, "What
    >is going on?"..to which s/he replies, "Oh, we have a problem that
    >we are planning around. I'll explain later." And rumors are
    >flying that there is a big layoff coming or a serious problem that
    >might drive us out of our jobs, or even close the company. So,
    >everyone waits for the WORD.
    >
    >Finally a meeting is scheduled and it is mandatory that you
    >attend. The meeting is an hour and a half long. It becomes
    >apparent that we have a problem, but nothing like the ones
    >described in the rumors that were floating around. No one saw it
    >coming, no one knows why we didn't, but we have this problem and
    >somehow it is our fault.
    >
    >Things are going to change...we are told. We are shown charts and
    >graphs, spread sheets and overheads, showing how bad the problem
    >is. At the end of it all we are asked, "Any questions?" and no
    >one has a question, for fear of dragging this thing on further, or
    >appearing stupid. Everyone agrees...we KNEW this was going to
    >happen. We blame management for not listening to us. We claim to
    >have seen the problem coming for years now.
    >
    >Later at the watercooler or coffee pot, everyone is asking, "So,
    >what do you think about this meeting", and the only correct
    >response is "Sounds serious".
    >
    >Some of us had the privilege of attending this meeting, others
    >have to hear it explained to them by us. To explain something to
    >someone that you yourself don't understand is easy...all you have
    >to do is say, "things are bad...we need to change."
    >
    >Then everyone does pretty much one of two things: they wait around
    >and hope the 'thing' goes away (and continue doing things as they
    >always have), never to be mentioned again (which happens more
    >often than not), or they observe others and try to appear to be
    >busy working on 'it'.
    >
    >If you take the risk to go to the person who originated the
    >concern and ask questions, you see the look of disappointment on
    >this persons face and they ask..."Didn't your boss explain it to
    >you?" and they immediately respond by calling your boss into the
    >room and say, "So-and-so here doesn't understand the "thing".
    >Didn't you go over it with him? Please take him back and explain
    >it again."
    >
    >Your boss is now more concerned that you didn't come to him/her
    >and takes more time to explain how you should not go above his/her
    >head than to explain the 'thing'.
    >
    >Your department seldom conducts internal meetings, so the only
    >time the 'thing' is mentioned again is during your semi-annual
    >evaluation. "What are YOU doing to fix the 'THING'?"..since the
    >answer is "Not enough", you and your boss outline some 'RESULTS'
    >that you want before the next evaluation. IN a nutshell, your
    >'results' state: "I will fix the 'thing'".
    >
    >Every blue moon, your department has a meeting to discuss progress
    >on the 'thing'...if the 'thing' is not long forgotten and replaced
    >by other 'things'. Everyone dumps problems on the table about why
    >the 'thing' is no better...and it is subconsciously assumed that
    >by stating problems, you have solved them.
    >
    >"We now have a better understanding of the 'thing'" your boss says
    >and you leave knowing that somehow you and everyone else in the
    >meeting let the boss down by having problems with the 'thing'.
    >Guess what?!! The next meeting comes around and no one is having
    >problems with the 'thing'.
    >
    >By luck, by chance, by fate, in some area of the Corporation the
    >'thing' is actually getting better. Everyone is invited to hear
    >how successful Department # has been in fixing the 'thing'. SO
    >now we know it can be fixed. So what is wrong with us that we are
    >making the 'thing' better? We can no longer use the excuse that
    >the 'Thing" is impossible to fix. We know...we are leaving too
    >early, mis-managing our time, not prioritizing, etc. We get to go
    >to a Franklin planning session. Now we know the exact dates and
    >times that we didn't fix the 'thing'.
    >
    >Now, with the pressure on...we all look to see who we can blame
    >for the 'thing' not getting better in our department. IF only
    >Sales would....or accounting did things this way....the thing
    >would improve for us. Now we know...we cannot possibly 'fix' the
    >'thing' with so much against us. The 'thing' is not even our
    >problem..it is theirs...that is why they were able to improve
    >it...they caused it.
    >
    >Every time an emergency crops up...everyone's adrenalin pumps
    >in...now we have a chance to really "bite" the 'thing', and guess
    >what...it happened because of someone else...so now I can fix it
    >and really shine.
    >
    >Eventually the 'thing' gets worked out and the manager takes
    >another promotion. So, many people highly regard, fear and
    >respect this manager, who knows so much about 'things' as to
    >identify them for us and insist that we fix them.....as evident in
    >our semi-annual evaluation.
    >
    >
    >SITUATION B
    >
    >A Cross-functional team is brought together to analyze Customer
    >data. The team defines the Customers standards and then looks at
    >our performance to determine whether or not we are meeting the
    >Customers needs.
    >
    >Our boss comes back to our department and explains the 'gap' and
    >says, "I know that as a team, we can design a process to fill this
    >gap". For several days in a row, we meet, argue, debate, fight,
    >complain, whine, toss-out ideas and explore. Finally, we come to
    >a conclusion that we can all live with. We share our process with
    >other departments and argue, fight, debate, brainstorm and develop
    >a common goal. We turn the problem into a vision where there is
    >no room for the "thing" to exist...and we have determined
    >measurables that will tell us if we are getting closer to fixing
    >the 'thing' or further away.
    >
    >We meet regularly to discuss where we are in regards to the
    >'thing'. Our boss insists that when we are getting further away
    >from the 'thing' we need to look at our process and come up with
    >some type of Corrective Action.
    >
    >I find myself talking about the 'thing' to my family. I find my
    >eyes being drawn to articles in papers and magazines where others
    >have experienced the 'thing' and fixed it. All of a sudden I have
    >a lot of ideas and information to share with my team.
    >
    >Our boss wants to hear our ideas. S/he wants to know what kind of
    >help we will need. S/he trusts that we can do it. When we feel
    >down, s/he shows us how far we have already come.
    >
    >Our boss also tells us to remember what we did that works, so we
    >can repeat it and share with other teams.
    >
    >My boss says...it is five o'clock...go home and get some rest, you
    >will need it tomorrow when we get together on this 'thing' again.
    >
    >SOME CONCLUSIONS
    >
    >The 'thing' or problem is the same in both situations...but in one
    >situation I feel helpless. I think that if I cannot find the
    >person to blame, then I will get blamed. I don't want any share
    >in the responsibilty because I don't want my name attached in any
    >way to the 'thing'. I never really know how close or far away I
    >am from fixing the 'thing'. My boss in both situations is the
    >same person...and believe it or not it has happened.
    >
    >I thought that my boss in the first situation was a manager and in
    >the second a leader...I don't know. I just know he behaved
    >differently.
    >
    >I too have changed my style within the last 3 - 5 years. Being a
    >leader is difficult because the focus is more on nurturing people
    >relationships and bringing them together to work on processes,
    >than it is on results and finding blame for what doesn't work.
    >
    >Whattya think?
    >
    >Rick Corcoran
    >corcoranre@excelinc.com
    >
    >

    --
    Talk entrepreneurshp with me
    entre@aztec.asu.edu
    602-279-0561 office fax 602-955-5459