Discussion: View Thread

I might be stomping on some toes here...that's OK...it might open up an
interesting thread. So please feel free to take your best shots at
me and flame away.

As I've watched the posts and threads on this list (particularly on the
"shyness" thread), I'm kind of surprised (well...maybe I'm not) at
some of the responses. Here we have very learned, smart people who are teaching
management and leadership, but I don't see them practicing
it in the classroom (based on some of the responses)!

Why do college teachers want to punish students? Put them on "hot seats"? Give
"pop quizzes" (which studies have shown do NOT adequately
measure learning or increase motivation to learn)? Give "tests" that measure
nothing at all on soft subjects like "leadership"? LECTURE
on things like management and leadership? Treat students as children?

WHY DON'T WE PRACTICE WHAT WE PREACH????

Some background: I have been teaching adults in the business setting (how to
use systems, how to manage, how to communicate) for over 16
years, and teaching both undergrad and grad level management and OB courses as
an adjunct for 10 yrs. I've managed and led numerous people
and projects in my 42 years. My PhD should be completed in a coule of years.

I consider myself a professional...I am very proud of my classroom and standup
skills, my creativity in developing a learning atmosphere,
understanding how people learn, and the development of my students. I receive
many compliments about the quality of and learning in my
classes. I consider my students (primarily adults, not too many traditional) my
customers. My philosophy is to MAKE STUDENTS SUCCESSFUL,
not gig them, punish them, have them compete for grades, etc. Students want to
LEARN, and I can't do it for them. I can't motivate
them...they must motivate and empower themselves. All I can do is set up the
environment so they can.

So, in the classroom I LEAD!!! I practice what I preach regarding leadership
and effective management. I share my vision of the class,
ask them to develop theirs and set their goals, get them to interact and
practice and experience the things we talk about. I encourage
them to try new things, and reward them when they do, even if they don't
succeed. I give them choices. I treat them as ADULTS, not
children, and not just a "pair of hands." And I LEARN something from every one
of the classes I teach.

And you know what? I have NEVER had a problem with entire classes being shy.

I saw a post saying something about developing adjuncts, and preparing them to
teach. Maybe some full time teachers should do the same.

How do you feel about this? I'd love to hear from you.

George Ferguson
georgeferguson@hmri.com

I'm with you George.

"We do not see the world as it is, We see the world as we are" -Talmud

>----------
>From: Ferguson, George, HMR/US[SMTP:georgeferguson@MMD.COM]
>Sent: Friday, February 14, 1997 9:26 AM
>To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
>Subject: Teaching and Leadership
>
>I might be stomping on some toes here...that's OK...it might open up an
> interesting thread. So please feel free to take your best shots at
>me and flame away.
>
>As I've watched the posts and threads on this list (particularly on the
> "shyness" thread), I'm kind of surprised (well...maybe I'm not) at
>some of the responses. Here we have very learned, smart people who are
>teaching
> management and leadership, but I don't see them practicing
>it in the classroom (based on some of the responses)!
>
>Why do college teachers want to punish students? Put them on "hot seats"?
>Give
> "pop quizzes" (which studies have shown do NOT adequately
>measure learning or increase motivation to learn)? Give "tests" that measure
> nothing at all on soft subjects like "leadership"? LECTURE
>on things like management and leadership? Treat students as children?
>
>WHY DON'T WE PRACTICE WHAT WE PREACH????
>
>Some background: I have been teaching adults in the business setting (how to
> use systems, how to manage, how to communicate) for over 16
>years, and teaching both undergrad and grad level management and OB courses
>as
> an adjunct for 10 yrs. I've managed and led numerous people
>and projects in my 42 years. My PhD should be completed in a coule of years.
>
>I consider myself a professional...I am very proud of my classroom and
>standup
> skills, my creativity in developing a learning atmosphere,
>understanding how people learn, and the development of my students. I
>receive
> many compliments about the quality of and learning in my
>classes. I consider my students (primarily adults, not too many traditional)
>my
> customers. My philosophy is to MAKE STUDENTS SUCCESSFUL,
>not gig them, punish them, have them compete for grades, etc. Students want
>to
> LEARN, and I can't do it for them. I can't motivate
>them...they must motivate and empower themselves. All I can do is set up the
> environment so they can.
>
>So, in the classroom I LEAD!!! I practice what I preach regarding leadership
> and effective management. I share my vision of the class,
>ask them to develop theirs and set their goals, get them to interact and
> practice and experience the things we talk about. I encourage
>them to try new things, and reward them when they do, even if they don't
> succeed. I give them choices. I treat them as ADULTS, not
>children, and not just a "pair of hands." And I LEARN something from every
>one
> of the classes I teach.
>
>And you know what? I have NEVER had a problem with entire classes being shy.
>
>I saw a post saying something about developing adjuncts, and preparing them
>to
> teach. Maybe some full time teachers should do the same.
>
>How do you feel about this? I'd love to hear from you.
>
> George Ferguson
> georgeferguson@hmri.com
>

George Ferguson <georgeferguson@hmri.com> wrote:

>>... Here we have very learned,
smart people who are teaching
management and leadership, but
I don't see them practicing
it in the classroom (based
on some of the responses)! ...<<

Is it because we see students as different from managers and employees?

I have seen very vocal students speak only to make sure they get a
high class participation grade. I wonder how these people will
behave at job meetings?

>>... Why do college teachers
want to punish students? ...<<

Carrots work, but sticks work better on some students?

>>... Put them on "hot seats"? ...<<

Some teachers love to be in the hot seat so they presume it
is comfortable for others.

A big problem I have seen is teachers with a very fast mind
expecting all their students to be so equally gifted.

>>... Give "pop quizzes" (which
studies have shown do NOT adequately
measure learning or increase motivation
to learn)? ...<<

Got to have a basis for the grade.

>>... WHY DON'T WE PRACTICE WHAT WE PREACH???? ...<<

It is always easier to know the right thing to do
than it is to do the right thing.

>>... And you know what? I have NEVER had
a problem with entire classes being shy...<<

Ah, the real problem is surfacing. Some teacher's classroom
behavior encourage students to speak up while other teacher's
behavior convince students to be quiet. Few of us like to be
insulted, demeaned or rushed to reach a point while still
formulating the point while speaking. When we treat everyone
the same we should not be surprised that most people feel abused.

Bob

+----------------------------+
| Robert F. Gately, PE, MBA |
+----------------------------+----------------------+
| GATELY CONSULTING (508) 473-0955 |
| 115 Dutcher Street Fax (508) 634-0670 |
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To George Ferguson

I agree one must lead in the classroom not manage the process of teaching a
class. Unfortunately, we know little if anything about leadership even
though there have been 3-4 thousand studies done on the topic. Like you I
consider that my experience before academia has helped me lead in the
classroom and my students (grad & undergrad) seem to enjoy my courses.
However, I sometimes wonder if as academics sometimes forget that good
theory is very practical and in our attempt to be practical do not teach
theory in a way that intrigues students to want to learn it. I really
struggle against being so practical that what we try to teach is only good
on monday morning, first day on the job as opposed to being good for many
different situations.

Glenn


W. Glenn Rowe
Faculty of Business Administration
Memorial University of Newfoundland
St. John's, NF, Canada, A1B 3X5
709 737 4363
709 737 7999 (Fax)

ASAC 97 is being held in St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada from May 31 to
June 3, 1997. St. John's is the oldest city in North America and is only 8
miles west of Cape Spear, the most easterly point of North America. Come
join us at ASAC 97 and help us celebrate the 500th anniversary of the
arrival of John Cabot to Newfoundland in 1497.

Right on, George. You will always be in demand -- and probably highly rewarded.

On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:26:22, "Ferguson, George, HMR/US" wrote:
>Subject: Teaching and Leadership
---snip---
>Why do college teachers want to punish students? ---snip---
>WHY DON'T WE PRACTICE WHAT WE PREACH???? --- snip ---
>I receive
> many compliments about the quality of and learning in my
>classes. I consider my students (primarily adults, not too many
>traditional) >my customers. My philosophy is to MAKE STUDENTS SUCCESSFUL
>---snip ---
>So, in the classroom I LEAD!!! I practice what I preach regarding leadership
> and effective management. I share my vision of the class,
>ask them to develop theirs and set their goals, get them to interact and
> practice and experience the things we talk about. I encourage
>them to try new things, and reward them when they do, even if they don't
> succeed. I give them choices. I treat them as ADULTS, not
>children, and not just a "pair of hands." And I LEARN something from every one
> of the classes I teach.
>
>And you know what? I have NEVER had a problem with entire classes being shy.
>
> George Ferguson
> georgeferguson@hmri.com


Jack Ring
Innovation Management
32712 N. 70th St.
Scottsdale, AZ 85262-7143 USA
602-488-4615
Fax) 602-488-4616

Dear Jack, George, and Dutch et al

I see one of our happy management ed. folks
isn't cured from edspeak yet and has to hide
behind cutesy terms like paradigm. Luckily
none of you above do. Do you
know how snazzy buzz words irritate students?
Especially non traditional -> oops need to
practice what I preach here -> old students
like me?

Glad to see that Jack and George can talk
just plain good sense. Welll we all know
Dutchie can whip out the snazzy and
dazzle us with his silver tongue... but
we know that's his thing. Still can
put some mighty powerful messages behind
those words eh?

I have never had any problem with my student
ratings when I teach... after all... they
pay my salary. I owe them my best and they
give back quality and sweet, sweet
precious moments of clarity and joy to
me. That's why I'm still at it after all
these years.

--
Best Regards,

Pat Gantt pagantt@worldnet.att.net Pat@HomeMail.com
The University of Tennessee M.S. Human Resource Development
Electronic Performance Instructor Information Source Locator (ISL)

In Message Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:26:22 -0600,
"Ferguson, George, HMR/US" <georgeferguson@MMD.COM> writes:
-snip-

>I saw a post saying something about developing adjuncts, and preparing them to
> teach. Maybe some full time teachers should do the same.

Let me tell you a story about one that almost happened....

Several years ago, I was hired to evaluate the performance of a university
program that had been developed to train instructors for technical
institutes. It was designed to give master tradesmen (e.g., plumbers,
steamfitters, iron-workers, etc.) the teaching skills to teach others their
trades, and called Technical-Vocational Education.

It turned out to be a wonderful program, highly effective, using all the
best stuff, contributing leading edge research as well as exemplary
practice. Unfortunately, it's market appeared to have dried up, as the new
technical institutes it had been created to serve were then fully staffed.
So the evaluation took a different turn: given that it was a good program,
was it needed? and we went hunting for alternative markets for its
services.

One of the first places we turned was to the very university in which it was
operating. Given that university profs. are hardly ever trained in teaching
methods, and deal with legal adults, it seemed obvious (if extremely naive)
to ask if the program might serve the university.

By this point, I presume those of you familiar with universities are either
laughing uproariously or crying outloud! You are probably familiar with
the well-established processes of universities, and perhaps even with the
status issues around being the second customers for a program designed to
teach plumbing instructors. It was a logical, but far from political
acceptable solution.

The punch-line is, however, that two Deans actually mused aloud that,
while they could never force the existing professorial staff to actually
learn to teach, they could make the program available on a volunteer basis.
And they might even be able to require new hires to take a one-month version
of the course in the July before they started work in September!

Well, they haven't done it yet, but I thought both the armour and the crack
in it were pretty revealing.

Best,

Tom Bryant.

!+!+!+!+!+!+!+!+!+!+! Bring on the E-Generation! !+!+!+!+!+!+!+!+!+!+!
Prof. Thomas A. Bryant, Ph.D.
Faculty of Business, Brock University
St. Catharines, Ont. CANADA L2S 3A1
e-mail address: tbryant@peregrine.bus.brocku.ca
Tel: (905) 688-5550, ext. 4372; Fax (905) 685-8866.

what is a hot seat? Are not managers supposed to be the center
of attention? Is it the same as being resonsible for the company?
I'd say yes.k.g.