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The TEAM!

  • 1.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-17-1997 09:42
    Dutch et. al.

    > #1. Why?

    Sorry, I must have deleted what I shouldn't
    miss that.

    > #2. How is a team different from a group?

    Teams give a rat's paatucky about each other and groups don't.
    Teams care about a quality group product and individual
    quality of each project part.

    > #3. How do teams fit into the scheme of an organziation's bottom-line
    > concerns?

    Again, when "management" cares and takes care of their "people"
    the people reciprocate ten-fold. Now that's a team!
    Been on some and makes a world of difference. Actually
    want to report to work... in fact even look forward
    to it on Mondays. ;)

    --
    Best Regards,

    Pat Gantt pagantt@worldnet.att.net Pat@HomeMail.com
    The University of Tennessee M.S. Human Resource Development
    Electronic Performance Instructor Information Source Locator (ISL)


  • 2.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-17-1997 09:44
    I am pondering on the prevailing attraction business has for the team
    concept.

    #1. Why?

    #2. How is a team different from a group?

    #3. How do teams fit into the scheme of an organziation's bottom-line
    concerns?

    ______________________
    Great Optimism,

    Dutch Driver
    Dept. of Communication
    McMurry University
    Abilene, TX
    ddriver@cs1.mcm.edu


  • 3.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-17-1997 11:21
    Dutch

    I will answer the last question first. Teams have a shared understanding of
    what an organization is about. They work together to achieve this. They
    know what they themselves have to do to achieve it but have enough of an
    understanding of what other team members are doing to help when help is
    needed and it is at that point more of a priority than what they are doing.
    Within a team it is also very difficult to assess who is responsible for
    doing what; whereas in a group you have individuals who from an outside of
    the group perspective it is very easy to determine who is doing what. Teams
    are composed of individuals who know their jobs and how to integrate what
    they do into the jobs of their teamates so that the organization benefits as
    a whole. Members on a team cooperate whereas memebrs of a group may
    cooperatre but more than likely may compete to the detriment of the
    organization.

    If these thoughts are correct, I may have actually answered all three
    questions. I look forward to others responses.

    Glenn

    At 08:44 AM 2/17/97 -0600, you wrote:
    >I am pondering on the prevailing attraction business has for the team
    >concept.
    >
    >#1. Why?
    >
    >#2. How is a team different from a group?
    >
    >#3. How do teams fit into the scheme of an organziation's bottom-line
    > concerns?
    >
    >______________________
    >Great Optimism,
    >
    >Dutch Driver
    >Dept. of Communication
    >McMurry University
    >Abilene, TX
    >ddriver@cs1.mcm.edu
    >

    W. Glenn Rowe
    Faculty of Business Administration
    Memorial University of Newfoundland
    St. John's, NF, Canada, A1B 3X5
    709 737 4363
    709 737 7999 (Fax)

    ASAC 97 is being held in St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada from May 31 to
    June 3, 1997. St. John's is the oldest city in North America and is only 8
    miles west of Cape Spear, the most easterly point of North America. Come
    join us at ASAC 97 and help us celebrate the 500th anniversary of the
    arrival of John Cabot to Newfoundland in 1497.


  • 4.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-17-1997 11:46
    I will be presumptious and add an example to Glenn Rowe's posting. When I
    was a Ph.D. student at Berkeley, we had a "team" that used to play a lot
    of pick-up basketball. We typically played against groups of players that
    were collections of individuals or maybe a couple of friends who added
    strangers to get enough individuals to play a game. We were the old guys,
    typically playing against talented kids of 19-22 that were in better shape
    and had superior physical skills. But we consistently dominated our
    opponents because we were a team. We all understood that Ray Miles, who
    went on to become Dean of the Business School, had lost a step, but still
    had a great outside shot. And I knew exactly where Dave Bowen would be
    dancing along the baseline where he never missed a jump shot. I had a
    left-side drive with a bank shot that never missed, while Howard Rosenberg
    had a pull-up jump shot that he sank like a machine and Bob O'Sullivan had
    the craziest hook shot ever seen. We were a collection of one shot
    wonders, but we were effective in head-to-head performance tests
    with groups of individuals with superior talents because we were a team.

    Since this list is organized to discuss management education and training,
    I would like to pose a question that relates the team question to this
    purpose: where in management training and education programs do
    individuals learn to work in teams and to manage teams? We used to joke as
    students that the most important course we took was Competitive Basketball
    with Coach Al Kite, a man that understood teams, division of labor, and
    making the most of the limited talents of a group of individuals. Where do
    we provide these lessons in business schools and corporate training
    programs?

    ============================================= Jack [Brittain@UTDallas.edu]

    On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Glenn Rowe wrote:

    > Dutch
    >
    > I will answer the last question first. Teams have a shared understanding of
    > what an organization is about. They work together to achieve this. They
    > know what they themselves have to do to achieve it but have enough of an
    > understanding of what other team members are doing to help when help is
    > needed and it is at that point more of a priority than what they are doing.
    > Within a team it is also very difficult to assess who is responsible for
    > doing what; whereas in a group you have individuals who from an outside of
    > the group perspective it is very easy to determine who is doing what. Teams
    > are composed of individuals who know their jobs and how to integrate what
    > they do into the jobs of their teamates so that the organization benefits as
    > a whole. Members on a team cooperate whereas memebrs of a group may
    > cooperatre but more than likely may compete to the detriment of the
    > organization.
    >
    > If these thoughts are correct, I may have actually answered all three
    > questions. I look forward to others responses.
    >
    > Glenn
    >
    > At 08:44 AM 2/17/97 -0600, you wrote:
    > >I am pondering on the prevailing attraction business has for the team
    > >concept.
    > >
    > >#1. Why?
    > >
    > >#2. How is a team different from a group?
    > >
    > >#3. How do teams fit into the scheme of an organziation's bottom-line
    > > concerns?
    > >
    > >______________________
    > >Great Optimism,
    > >
    > >Dutch Driver
    > >Dept. of Communication
    > >McMurry University
    > >Abilene, TX
    > >ddriver@cs1.mcm.edu
    > >
    >
    > W. Glenn Rowe
    > Faculty of Business Administration
    > Memorial University of Newfoundland
    > St. John's, NF, Canada, A1B 3X5
    > 709 737 4363
    > 709 737 7999 (Fax)
    >
    > ASAC 97 is being held in St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada from May 31 to
    > June 3, 1997. St. John's is the oldest city in North America and is only 8
    > miles west of Cape Spear, the most easterly point of North America. Come
    > join us at ASAC 97 and help us celebrate the 500th anniversary of the
    > arrival of John Cabot to Newfoundland in 1497.
    >


  • 5.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-17-1997 15:38
    Jack [Brittain@UTDallas.edu] wrote:

    >>... we consistently dominated our
    opponents because we were a team...<<

    A common outcome when each team member does their best at
    what they do best.

    >>... Ray Miles...still had a great outside shot.
    Dave Bowen...along the baseline...never missed a jump shot...
    I had a left-side drive with a bank shot that never missed...
    Howard Rosenberg had a pull-up jump shot...sank like a machine...
    Bob O'Sullivan had the craziest hook shot ever seen...<<

    Each team member fit their position or role. What would have happened
    if you had moved people around so that each person was not at their
    best position? Would the team have been as successful?

    >>... We were a collection of one shot wonders,
    but we were effective in head-to-head performance
    tests with groups of individuals with superior
    talents because we were a team...<<

    Much like a chain's strength; it is only as strong as its weakest
    link. Where we have a weak link we may have to double up
    two weak links to make the chain stronger twice as strong.

    >>... where in management training and
    education programs do individuals learn
    to work in teams and to manage teams?...<<

    I learned during the first residency week of my Executive MBA program.
    The professors demonstrated to me, without a doubt, the value of
    team work.

    >>... the most important course we took was
    Competitive Basketball with Coach Al Kite,
    a man that understood teams, division of labor,
    and making the most of the limited talents of
    a group of individuals...<<

    We call the concept Job Fit--each person doing what it is
    that he or she is best suited to do.

    >>... Where do we provide these lessons
    in business schools and corporate training programs? ...<<

    I did not fully understand until after the EMBA how to evaluate
    employees to determine which position suits them best.

    Bob


  • 6.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-17-1997 16:17
    I feel the real difference between "team" and "group" is one work product, and interdependency. For example, if Rebecca's failure causes
    me and the rest of the people to fail, it's a team. If it takes all of us to accomplish the task, it's a team. If Rebecca and the rest of
    us can do whatever we want and fail, and it does not affect the rest of us or the task we are working, it's a group. The key is one
    product, with interlaced goals and tasks.

    "Teams" is one of the concepts that American management is again looking at as the latest panacea. Think about it...where is Theory x/y?
    The One-Minute Manager? Quality circles? Participative management? "Doing" quality? Empowerment, paradigm, and quality are now dirty
    words because they've been misused, overused, and abused, I bet "team" becomes the next one.

    I teach my students that you don't always need teams...most times groups need TEAMWORK. Not everything can be, could be, should be teams.
    Only in those instances where each of us are dependent on each other to do his or her job, and we need all of us (not just one or a few)
    to get the task done. The example of the basketball team is perfect...each person must make their specific shot, otherwise the team fails
    (loses).

    By the way, Dutch...I love your signature tag: "Great Optimism."

    George Ferguson
    georgeferguson@hmri.com

    ----------
    From: Dutch Driver[SMTP:ddriver%CS1.MCM.EDU@internet.kc.mmd.com]
    Sent: Monday, February 17, 1997 8:44 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV%MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU@internet.kc.mmd.com
    Subject: The TEAM!

    I am pondering on the prevailing attraction business has for the team
    concept.

    #1. Why?

    #2. How is a team different from a group?

    #3. How do teams fit into the scheme of an organziation's bottom-line
    concerns?

    ______________________
    Great Optimism,

    Dutch Driver
    Dept. of Communication
    McMurry University
    Abilene, TX
    ddriver@cs1.mcm.edu


  • 7.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-17-1997 17:35
    First, a thought....since most large corporations are still male run, teams
    provide an analogy with sports which most men can relate to. Rarely a day
    goes by that I don't hear someone comparing a team or teams with the sports
    world. Actually, I find myself doing the same thing. Actually, I love
    sports too so it makes it quite easy for me.

    Secondly, true teams are working toward a superordinate goal that requires
    the talents, skills and strengths of all to achieve. Unfortunately, many
    companies throw a group of individuals together and call them a team without
    any real effort to really make it happen. I've been part of a
    high-performing team and it felt wonderful. I've also been part (much more
    often) of a group called a team and suffer the frustration of accomplishing
    very litte.

    Nancy


  • 8.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-17-1997 21:21
    Sandy wrote:
    >
    > Does anyone use a non-sport team analogy?

    Yes, of course!

    The family
    Orchestras
    Church pastoral teams
    Theatrical casts

    All can function well as "teams", less well as "groups" and disfunctionally
    as random assemblies - just as sports teams do.

    Just to reflect a bit further on Dutch Driver's "Why?":
    In my experience teams are essential when changes to complex interacting
    systems are being made:
    - representing the knowledge of interactions
    - identifying knock-on consequences
    - spotting opportunities created
    and welding these into a "Vision" of a greater achievement than any one
    person could have seen.

    When it comes to maintaining standards teams are not necessarily the most
    effective social forms.

    Some organisations I visit like to represent themselves as being culturally
    'hierarchical' and others as 'teamwork-driven'. (Schools seem to be
    particularly prone to make these assertions.) It isn't a rigorously
    researched finding but I do tend to find that change is implemented better
    - more benefit is realised, more energy is available to reinforce it, less
    negativity expressed towards it - in the 'teamwork-driven' culture.

    However, when it comes to the maintenance of day-to-day standards
    'hierarchical' cultures are more effective at sustaining 'no change'.

    In today's business environment where customer expectation demands assurance
    of quality ('no change') while competition and evolving expectations call
    for continuous improvement and organisations which learn ('change') it seems
    to me essential that colleagues have a repertoire of ways of working
    together. They need to be able to agree the nature of the task they are
    tackling and to agree the way they organise so as to operate appropriately.

    We believe this is an essential competence for leaders in learning
    organisations and in the support of self-directed work teams.

    In a recent posting about "The Witch Doctors" Frank Bell wrote about the key
    issue of identifying the needs of organisations and to find approaches which
    respond to those needs. One of the best initial tests when tackling sore
    thumbs is to look at the match, or otherwise, between the task being
    undertaken and the social form which has been adopted, or the culture has
    imposed, to tackle it. Mismatches drain human energy and compromise outcomes.

    Best regards

    Geoff Butt

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Geoff Butt at GTBT Network
    geoff@butt.demon.co.uk


  • 9.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-18-1997 09:58
    Bob,
    >
    >Jack [Brittain@UTDallas.edu] wrote:
    >
    >>>... where in management training and
    >education programs do individuals learn
    >to work in teams and to manage teams?...<<

    You wrote:
    >
    >I learned during the first residency week of my Executive MBA program.
    >The professors demonstrated to me, without a doubt, the value of
    >team work.

    How? Could you give us a summary explaination?

    David Croke
    MSA Graduate Assistant
    The Prevel School
    Saint Michael's College
    dcroke@smcvt.edu
    >


  • 10.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-18-1997 12:53
    -=> On 02/17/97 08:44, Dutch Driver wrote Frank Bell <=-

    DD> I am
    DD> pondering on the prevailing attraction business has for the team
    DD> concept.
    DD> #1. Why?

    Because one person can't build 400 automobiles a day, or move 450
    passenger trains safely around the country.

    DD> #2. How is a team different from a group?

    A team has a common goal. A group does not. Without a common goal,
    a group is simply a bunch of people who happen to be in the same
    general vicinity (geographical, organizational, or virtual) at the
    same timme.

    DD> #3. How do teams fit into the scheme of an organziation's bottom-line
    DD> concerns?

    To quote one of my students many years ago:

    T ogether
    E ach
    A ccomplishes
    M ore


    Frank Bell Internet:
    Project Leader frank.bell@nonamebbs.com
    Amtrak frank.bell@royal.com
    National Training and
    Conference Center FidoNet:
    110 S. French St.--Ste 200 Frank Bell@1:150/160
    Wilmington, Del. 19801




    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30


  • 11.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-18-1997 16:04
    Jack <Brittain@UTDallas.edu> wrote:

    >>... where in management training and
    education programs do individuals learn
    to work in teams and to manage teams?...<<

    I responded:

    "...during the first residency week of my Executive
    MBA program. The professors demonstrated to me,
    without a doubt, the value of team work..."

    David Croke <dcroke@smcvt.edu> then wrote:

    >>... Bob, How? Could you give us a summary explanation? ...<<

    Item 1:

    During the weak of residency at the start of the program the 38 students
    we typed using the MBTI. We were then separated into the four major
    groupings (NT, NF, ST, SF) and each group was asked to design a company
    around a product of our own choosing and to develop as much as we could
    in one hour relative to the company structure and products.

    After an hour one person from each group went to the front of the class
    to present their groups results. While the four students were in front
    of the room, the professors were passing out a one page summary of what
    each of the four were going to say based solely on their MBTI.

    The impact on me was considerable. It demonstrated to me that team
    members need to compliment one another and not be clones of one another.

    Item 2:

    During that first week we also did the sub arctic exercise where each
    study group had to negotiate the ranking or importance of 15 items
    that were available to the group when were "crash landed" in the arctic.
    The exercise demonstrated to me quite convincingly that the a group
    can outperform the best individual efforts. Very enlightening to
    say the least.

    Bob

    +----------------------------+
    | Robert F. Gately, PE, MBA |
    +----------------------------+-----------------------+
    | GATELY CONSULTING (508) 473-0955 |
    | 115 Dutcher Street Fax (508) 634-0670 |
    | Hopedale, MA 01747-1006 (800) 478-8117 |
    | http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/gately/ |
    +----------------------------------------------------+


  • 12.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-18-1997 18:59
    > Date sent: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:34:45 -0500
    > Send reply to: Management Education and Development Discussion
    > <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
    > From: NProbst261@AOL.COM
    > Subject: Re: The TEAM!
    > To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

    > First, a thought....since most large corporations are still male run, teams
    > provide an analogy with sports which most men can relate to. Rarely a day
    > goes by that I don't hear someone comparing a team or teams with the sports
    > world. Actually, I find myself doing the same thing. Actually, I love
    > sports too so it makes it quite easy for me.

    Nancy suggested that the sport analogy is useful. However, I'm not a
    "sporty" person, and although I also use the team analogy to describe
    how teams function, I don't believe all my students identify with
    this. In a country where male-dominated rugby (aka the All Blacks)
    rules, perhaps I'm a minority.

    Does anyone use a non-sport team analogy?

    Sandy



    **********************************************************************
    Sandy Millar Manukau Institute of Technology New Zealand


  • 13.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-19-1997 09:54
    As I have listened to the discussion on teams I am led to think about the
    difference in teams in my MBA strategic management class and the teams we as
    an MBA program send to the Concordia University International case
    Competition each year.

    In my class, each student is randomly assigned to a "team" to analyze three
    cases. One to be presented to the class orally, one to be passed in written
    form and one where the "team" acts as a board of directors for another
    "team's" oral presentation.

    The Concordia team is usually comprised of MBA students in their second year
    who have gone through the strategic management course. They practice
    intensively for a period before the competition and throughtout the training
    process most of the groups we have formed become teams who have been very
    successful over the past 12 years (4 firsts, 2 seconds, 3 thirds, 2 fourths,
    and 1 fifth). No other MBA school comes close. I believe that one of many
    reasons for our success is that we truly develop five students plus coaches
    into a team of individuals who know their strengths annd weaknesses and how
    to complement each other.

    On the other hand, in comparison, the "teams" in my MBA class are really
    groups of students who function as a team at a very basic level. Other MBA
    programs offer a credit course to develop their Concordia team. We have
    not. Our students discuss it back always back away from it because they
    feel it would destroy the special chemistry that develops within each team
    each year. Certainly, it is a different chemistry than what develops among
    the teams in my class.

    I am explaining this because I sometimes feel that calling the groups of
    students in my MBA class "teams" may be giving them a false sense of what a
    team is all about; especially when compared to the teams we develop for
    Concordia.

    As a practitioner, I once took over a "virtual" organization which had only
    three full time employees but hired on a part-time basis 20-30 people. When
    I took over I asked my three employees what their strengths were and
    weaknesses. I had been in a position to observe them for several months
    before I took over and this was in the second or so month of my tenure. One
    of their strengths was that they felt they were a team. I asked wvy they
    felt this way and they said that they like working here and working with
    each other. I replied that this only meant that thgey were a group of
    people that liked working with each other not that they were a team. They
    thought about that and agreed. Since then we have been working on becoming
    a team. However, with the press of business it is hard. I expect that we
    will take another several months (in excess of a year) before I feel we are
    starting to become a team. We have even brought in a professional at team
    building to help us.

    I hope these comments provoke some more discussion.

    Glenn

    W. Glenn Rowe
    Faculty of Business Administration
    Memorial University of Newfoundland
    St. John's, NF, Canada, A1B 3X5
    709 737 4363
    709 737 7999 (Fax)

    ASAC 97 is being held in St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada from May 31 to
    June 3, 1997. St. John's is the oldest city in North America and is only 8
    miles west of Cape Spear, the most easterly point of North America. Come
    join us at ASAC 97 and help us celebrate the 500th anniversary of the
    arrival of John Cabot to Newfoundland in 1497.


  • 14.  The TEAM!

    Posted 02-19-1997 15:55
    > Date sent: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 02:21:15 GMT
    > Send reply to: geoff@butt.demon.co.uk
    > From: geoffrey butt <geoff@BUTT.DEMON.CO.UK>
    > Subject: Re: The TEAM!
    > To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

    Geoff Butt offered some suggestions to my question, "Does anyone
    use a non-sport team analogy?, including:

    The family
    Orchestras
    Church pastoral teams
    Theatrical casts

    The theatrical casts presents a range of metaphors for business. As
    managers, we are the directors of the play, while staff are the
    players. The cast is chosen, only after auditions, to suit the play,
    be it drama, tradegy, comedy or farce. As HR professionals, we
    select applicants for positions, and are foolhardly not to
    assess their skills first. Ideal candidates for one "role" may not be
    suited to another - roles are certainly NOT interchangeable.

    All can function well as "teams", less well as "groups" and
    disfunctionally > as random assemblies - just as sports teams do.

    Geoff commented that "colleagues have a repertoire of ways of
    working together", and as actors on the stage, we too have a diverse
    repetoire of skills. Without these skills, we cannot cope if the
    unexpected occurs.

    The whole production of a theatrical event is dependent on the team
    concept. Lighting, stage, promotion, actors, costumes (the corporate
    look?!), and of course, the players.

    The questions I would like to pose are:

    1. as managers and team players, are we merely acting a role?

    2. does it matter if we are, if both organisational and personal
    goals are fulfilled?

    3. do we all need the same script?


    Sandy Millar




    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Geoff Butt at GTBT Network
    > geoff@butt.demon.co.uk
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >