Discussion: View Thread

David Lemak asked:

>Just for fun, let me ask anyone on the list to simply post a defintion of
>"leadership". Any takers?

My 2 cents: Having followers. One or more people who voluntarily decide to
follow the lead of another.

(How can you "lead" if you don't have someone following? After all, the name of
the game is NOT "follow the manager.")

It's been interesting following the "leadership vs. management" discussion. All
of the posts seem to be coming from a senior management
viewpoint, CEO, etc. I sincerely believe that we CANNOT equate leadership with
rank or position. There are too many senior managers I've
met, experienced, listened to, etc. that can't "lead" their way out of a paper
bag. Take Roger Smith for example. Look at all the
informal leaders in groups, at work, in volunteer activities like Boy Scouts,
etc. who, without position power, rank, or status, lead
others to some end.

By the way, in my opinion the original purpose of B-school is to give people the
technical skills to run a business. They don't teach
leadership at this time...where B-school programs are lacking is in the
interpersonal side, where "leadership" actually comes into play.
But don't we see "leadership" in our students? The ones who challange the
processes of the programs or YOUR teaching style/content,
challenge the usefulness of the test, or why do something a particular way, and
getting others to buy into their challenge? And what do we
call these people? Trouble makers, loose cannons, not team players, etc.

We need to teach people to lead from personal and interpersonal strengths,
passion and commitment, not from "power positions" and the
number of stripes on their sleeves.

George Ferguson
georgeferguson@hmri.com

Definition of Leadership:

George Ferguson <georgeferguson@MMD.COM> wrote:

>>... Having followers. One or more people who
voluntarily decide to follow the lead of another...<<

I agree, without followers thre is no leader and the
most important words are "voluntarily decide to follow".

We need to study the leader and the followers if we hope to
understand why followers follow their leaders willingly.

>>... the name of the game is NOT "follow the manager." ...<<

Yes, and quite often the game is "do I as I say, not as I do."

>>... All of the posts seem to be
coming from a senior management
viewpoint, CEO, etc...<<

I hope you did not include me here, George.

>>... we CANNOT equate leadership
with rank or position...<<

Leadership is unrelated to rank or position, since leaders can
lead from whatever their rank or position. The hard part is
finding good followers since much of our recent team building
activity seems to devalue leadership from any one person taking
a leadership role. Consensus over leadership.

>>... There are too many senior managers...
that can't "lead" their way out of a paper bag...<<

I wonder how they got to be senior managers? Could it be that
leadership is hardly ever a requirement for promotion into
senior management?

>>... in my opinion the original purpose
of B-school is to give people the
technical skills to run a business...<<

IMO that should still be the purpose of B-School.

>>... where B-school programs are lacking
is in the interpersonal side, where
"leadership" actually comes into play...<<

Yes, we are turning out MBA's who have the technical skills and
knowledge but not leadership behavior--that is why so many non-MBA's
have low opinions of MBAs. MBA does not stand for "Manager of Business
Activities" but rather "Master of Business Administration" so why
do people think an MBA should mean something other than what it
really means? Could it be that B-Schools oversell the MBA degree?

Send a leader through an MBA program and you get a leader with an MBA.
Send a follower through an MBA program and you get a follower with an MBA.
Both are necessary in business, so B-Schools ought not to fret too much.

>>... The ones who challenge...getting others
to buy into their challenge? And what do we
call these people? Trouble makers, loose
cannons, not team players, etc...<<

Yes, nicely stated. In business an employee who dares question the
senior management decisions is not looked upon favorably and in some
cases may be accused of being a grand stander, a loner, a nay sayer,
a complainer, and god forbid, not a team player.

>>... We need to teach people to lead
from personal and interpersonal strengths,
passion and commitment, not from "power
positions" and the number of stripes
on their sleeves...<<

Unfortunately, too few people have that personal and interpersonal
strength, passion and commitment. That is why leaders are so few
and far between.

I guess we are lucky that there are many more followers than leaders
since to have it the other way around could be more dysfunctional.
We could have many leaders ready to lead, but no one to follow?

Bob

+----------------------------+
| Robert F. Gately, PE, MBA |
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Small reminder
The "first published now" diagram showing dynamic relationship of leader /
manager will be removed 19973.15.
go to
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/canmor/index19.htm
click along site entrance
Contents page - Organization
Organization page - Leadership Guide

What is you view?

Emil Zahner
Morphological Institute Canada
Building Innovators
Fax 1 519 884 1313

Bob Gately wrote:

>I guess we are lucky that there are many more followers than leaders
>since to have it the other way around could be more dysfunctional.
>We could have many leaders ready to lead, but no one to follow?

Ah yes, the leadership paradox: If everyone's a leader, then there are no followers. If there are no followers, there are no leaders.

Richard Corcoran wrote:

>I don't mean to be rude, but I see a lot of resistance on the part
>of most of the list to WANT TO IDENTIFY LEADERSHIP and be able to
>teach it. If that is true, why do you suppose that is? Do we
>want our leaders to have this mysterious quality that we cannot
>define, measure and teach? Are we afraid of having leadership in
>this country?...in our schools, in our businesses?

There have been a lot of attempts at this: Bennis & Nanus; Kouzes and Posner; Senge; Covey; Block; Drucker; et al. Just read theirs...lots
of consistencies. I'll give it a shot, based on a little research, a little experience, and a lot of Kentucky windage:

"Leadership is the art of attracting followers by discovering, sharing, and working together towards common goals, values and experiences."

Can it be taught? I believe so...just look at the interpersonal behaviors that go into discovering, sharing, and working together, and
teach them. Will they guarantee an effective leader? No. Will mechanical training guarantee an effective mechanic? No. Will an MBA
guarantee an effective business person? No. Just because people don't necessarily utilize their training and take the next step (working
towards developing themselves personally and professionally), doesn't mean something can't be taught. (Are there enough negatives in that
sentence?)

Now tell me what you think.


George Ferguson
georgeferguson@hmri.com

George Ferguson <georgeferguson@MMD.COM> wrote:

>>... Ah yes, the leadership paradox: If
everyone's a leader, then there are no
followers. If there are no followers,
there are no leaders...<<

Are we then better off with a shortage of leaders?

>>... "Leadership is the art of attracting
followers by discovering, sharing, and
working together towards common goals,
values and experiences."...<<

I like it. I notice you use "attracting followers" and not commanding
them to follow. Does a leader need to build a consensus first?

>>... Can it be taught? I believe so...<<

Teaching leadership is unlike teaching most everything else. We
demonstrate what we have learned by taking tests, writing papers,
doing presentations, case studies and discussions, etc., but learning
to be a leader requires most of us to drastically change our behaviors.
No other B-School course requires students to make such changes in
their behaviors, i.e., the way they react to people, ideas and situations.

>>... Just because people don't necessarily
utilize their training and take the next step
...doesn't mean something can't be taught...<<

We can try to teach leadership, but if students do not become
leaders are we really teaching leadership?

What would be our response to students who would not or could not
learn accounting? Do we agree that there are very few instances of
MBA students not learning enough accounting to pass the course? Yes,
it happens, but not nearly as frequently as students failing to
become leaders. Leadership is much more about behavior and much
less about classroom learning.

Bob