Discussion: View Thread

MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU,Internet writes:

Experience is very important, but not everyone takes the right lessons from
their experiences. If they did and if good old common sense were all we
needed, all American businesses would
be run in a great manner. The fact is they aren't all run that way.

I believe it was Mark Twain who said, "Common sense is about the least common
thing there is."

The point I think you're getting at is that few people make much of the
lessons life lays at their feet. This rings true with me. You message
indicates that you feel a good education can help make up for that or even
teach people how to better learn from experience. I'd say yes - but only in
certain circumstances.

As someone who is fairly recently out of school, I can tell you that people
don't often learn how to learn from experience there either.

The problem I see: There are subjects you can study that teach you how to
think, but offer little direct skills training for the workplace. And there
are subjects that give you the hard skills you need, but aren't as good for
teaching people to think for themselves. In business, we seem to vaule the
latter almost exclusively - and students know this when they're deciding what
to study.

Without realizing how much it would benefit me, I opted to study a rather
unique combination of business/philosophy/literature (attribute it to the
blind idealism of youth). I got great skills out the business classes, but
not much on how to think for myself. That came from the liberal arts side.
Asian philosophies are especially good at teaching people the "how" of
learning from life. As I said, however, very few companies I've dealt with
(my present employer excepted) have been able to appreciate the value of what
I learned through my studies outside business.

My point: Maybe if we in business valued studies that teach people how to
learn from life, more people would do it.

At 09:41 AM 4/30/97 -0400, Miles wrote:
>Just for the record, to expand on David's comments, having attended a
>school is no assurance of knowledge or application. The lack of
>attending a school does not presume incompetence.
>
>Actually, there is emperical data that confirms most managers of
>successful companies do not have advanced degrees and some dropped out
>of college (e.g., Bill Gates). Also, there was a recent study done that
>details who becomes a millioniare in the U.S. A surprise to me is that
>it was not mostly white collar workers. Two thirds were blue collar
>people who owned there own businesses and THEY DID NOT GO TO SCHOOL TO
>LEARN THEIR TRADE.
>
>So can we please stop rarifing education. It has its place, but it is
>not the only path to success and learning. BTW, do you believe that
>this is coming from a Ph.D. candidate.

While I would not argue that a college degree is a guarantee of success, I
have to say that being in a position of leadership does not necessarily mean
that those people are doing it well. Experience is very important, but not
everyone takes the right lessons from their experiences. If they did and if
good old common sense were all we needed, all American businesses would
be run in a great manner. The fact is they aren't all run that way. Some managers
(or leaders) do pick up things on their own without an education, but as for
me - I'll recommend my kids get all the education they can so they BLEND their
education, their ability to learn and their good sense with experience.

Cheers,

Bill


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Bill Snavely
Miami University Department of Management
Richard T. Farmer School of Business
E-MAIL: snavelwb@muohio.edu
WEB: "http://www.muohio.edu/~snavelwb/"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The OBTC Ring connects Management Professors'
Home Pages: http://www.muohio.edu/~snavelwb/obtc.html

>
>While I would not argue that a college degree is a guarantee of success, I
>have to say that being in a position of leadership does not necessarily mean
>that those people are doing it well.

OK, give me a criteria to measure against and we can compare data. If
the criteria is the same that exist for most private sector companies
(return on shareholder inverstment) than let us look at the background
of those leading those companies and if they are being successful. If
we are considering public sector, how are services being delivered?
Actually, I believe there may be more education in public sector areas
because it is a criteria for advancement. Are they delivering their
services better than private sector companies?

>

Bill Snavely <snavelwb@MUOHIO.EDU> wrote:

>>... While I would not argue that
a college degree is a guarantee of
success, I have to say that being
in a position of leadership does
not necessarily mean that those
people are doing it well...<<

Yes, a point often overlooked when we talk about successful
entrepreneurs and managers. I wonder why so entrepreneurs
and managers attend Executive MBA programs--after they are
successful. Seems to me many successful people realize that
it is their ignorance that is preventing them from achieving
greater success.

>>... Experience is very important,
but not everyone takes the right
lessons from their experiences...<<

Quite often experience is a poor teacher, especially if we
do not have the knowledge to evaluate the experience.

>>... If they did and if good old common
sense were all we needed, all American
businesses would be run in a great manner...<<

I agree and I will not ask for data to support that conclusion. :-)

>>... The fact is they aren't all run that way...<<

Yes, very interesting. If experience were a very good teacher we
wouldn't need so many business and management professors. <vbg>

>>... Some managers (or leaders) do pick up
things on their own without an education...<<

And that has a lot to do with their learning style, their
learning ability and most importantly their personality.

>>... but as for me - I'll recommend my kids
get all the education they can so they BLEND
their education, their ability to learn and
their good sense with experience...<<

Great advice. Unfortunately, many new managers think that they
are too old to return to school to learn about their new position.

Bob

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Thomas,
Interesting. I am also from a liberal arts background and came upon the
business education at the graduate level. After many years in teaching, I
am of the mind (a distinct minority) that the undergraduate business
degree is only of limited value. I am biased by my own experience (as we
all are), but I think a liberal arts degree followed by formal business
training makes a great deal of good sense.
Regards,
Dave

On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Thomas Gorman wrote:

> MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU,Internet writes:
>
> Experience is very important, but not everyone takes the right lessons from
> their experiences. If they did and if good old common sense were all we
> needed, all American businesses would
> be run in a great manner. The fact is they aren't all run that way.
>
> I believe it was Mark Twain who said, "Common sense is about the least common
> thing there is."
>
> The point I think you're getting at is that few people make much of the
> lessons life lays at their feet. This rings true with me. You message
> indicates that you feel a good education can help make up for that or even
> teach people how to better learn from experience. I'd say yes - but only in
> certain circumstances.
>
> As someone who is fairly recently out of school, I can tell you that people
> don't often learn how to learn from experience there either.
>
> The problem I see: There are subjects you can study that teach you how to
> think, but offer little direct skills training for the workplace. And there
> are subjects that give you the hard skills you need, but aren't as good for
> teaching people to think for themselves. In business, we seem to vaule the
> latter almost exclusively - and students know this when they're deciding what
> to study.
>
> Without realizing how much it would benefit me, I opted to study a rather
> unique combination of business/philosophy/literature (attribute it to the
> blind idealism of youth). I got great skills out the business classes, but
> not much on how to think for myself. That came from the liberal arts side.
> Asian philosophies are especially good at teaching people the "how" of
> learning from life. As I said, however, very few companies I've dealt with
> (my present employer excepted) have been able to appreciate the value of what
> I learned through my studies outside business.
>
> My point: Maybe if we in business valued studies that teach people how to
> learn from life, more people would do it.
>