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This list has been rather quiet these past few days. Here is a question that I
pondered quite often when I did my MBA studies a few years ago. Why so much
emphasis on group activities in the courses? Most of the courses required such
activities, but I got very little from them other than a lot of frustration.

My courses were in the evening, and most, >90%, of the students worked full
time. Several of my fellow students, including myself, traveled quite a bit at
work. And most had families that required at least some of our non-business
time. Just finding time to get together was a real hassle.

Does forcing students who don't know each other to work on a team teach
teamwork? Did we learn how to work together? From the discussions here and
elsewhere, this is an expected result as it is said to simulate real work
activities. My experience was that we did not. I found very little of the team
building activities that I experience in similar activities at work. Rather, I
found that minimizing time expenditure was the most common goal.

Does forcing students to work together let them learn from each other? I have a
strong background in technical subjects, AB in math and MS in engineering. I
found that a large percentage of team members did not grasp the mathematics-
based concepts of finnance/economics/operations research. I very quickly found
that I resented the implication that I should teach these students material that
the faculty was unsuccessful in teaching. Rather, I just did the math and gave
them the results. If they wanted to actually understand what the math was
saying, I figured that they could learn that the hard way, by working through
the math on their own. This is the only way to really learn such things,
anyway. Interestingly, to me at least, I can't remember any teammates who
actually did work through the math after they got the results.

Does forcing students to prepare and present material to a class teach them how
to make effective presentations? Without instruction and coaching in that
specific area, I think the answer is no. Without specific feedback about the
presentation style and method, rather than the subject mater, one is not
learning by doing. Rather, they are just doing. Because of time constraints,
these presentations were not followed by in-depth discussion and defense of
conclusions. They were just open-loop activities that re-hashed material that
had already been presented by the instructor. Also, I can remember at least two
occasions where mathematically incorrect information was presented and the
instructor did not even correct the errors. What kind of learning does this
promote?

Is there any research on the effectiveness of team-based assignments? Or is
that merely a subject where "everybody knows its the right thing to do"? I also
suspect that there is quite a difference in how full-time students react to team
assignments relative to part-time students.

Just some thoughts. I look forward to responses.


Don Kleist kleist@gdls.com

Don,

Don't sugarcoat it...tell us how you feel!!

I share many of your impressions and ponderances with regards to team
learning in MBA and other academic programs. Team learning can be an
incredibly effective tool when properly used. Judging from my own
experiences as a student, these methods are almost invariably weak in
implementation. You mentioned time constraints. This is one of the
biggest hurdles. Performing like a team (if that is really possible or
even desirable) takes more time than an MBA program can afford. I do know
of one program that seems to work, though. By forming the first year MBAs
into cohort groups even before classes start and spending time on team
building exercises, many of my peers have had productive team learning
experiences in the courses that followed. This method isn't perfect as it
doesn't fully address the time issues, but it does seem like a good start.

Regarding presentations: The view is that practice makes perfect, but I
don't know of a single case where the quality of the presentations itself
was addressed. Every class seems to have a group presentation as a
requirement, but most faculty seem unwilling (perhaps acknowledging their
own lack of expertise in the area) to evaluate the presentation style,
methods and effectiveness, instead focusing solely on the written product
that accompanies the presentation as the basis for evaluation.

I wonder what schools are handling the team (more appropriately "group")
project in more creative, growth oriented ways?

Just wanted to share some thoughts. I apologize for the long-windedness.

Marty Kaufman

We have also discussed this issue of evaluating class
presentations. We had two of our Business Communication
faculty put on a workshop for other faculty, showing a
videotape of several student presentations and having
us practice using a standard evaluation form and discuss
our ratings. It was a wonderful workshop and really helped.
We discussed how useful it could be for students to
encounter a similar evaluation form in all classes so
they would get the idea that presentation quality matters
not only in the Communication class.
Of course the problem is that the workshop was not very
well-attended, and we are rather stuck on moving this
faculty development effort along further, but we haven't
given up. I think this approach is consistent with the idea
that raters need to be trained on how to rate, and practice
that skill.
Debbie Ettington

collaborative technology is based on delivering a rich media for team
collaboration--many teams in today's part time MBA world are "dospersed" with
meetings
every 2-3-4 weeks-these programs are getting more popular--even being called
"distance" learning

read "HBS Note "Technology for Teams" as background

als o look at new delivery system coming in the Fall Study.Net
(www.study.net)

Marty:

Let me address your comments on presentations. In my undergraduate
Compensation, HRM, and Org. Behavior courses, I have an assignment for a
"group project" in which self-selected groups must "do something
together" and present it. This something should address a topic or issue
in the course. Some "presentations" have included job interview
roleplays, budget meetings to decide raises, and games to review terms.
Prior to the presentations, I ask the groups to develop an evaluation
form we can use to grade the presentation and offer feedback. In the past
I have given their evaluations a weight of 35% and I retain 65%.
Another part of the assignment is an "executive summary" of 2 pages which
asks groups to review: reasons for topic selection, strong and weak
points of the presentation format, description of their group process,
and insights on topic and group process. This total body of work is worth
from 25-30% of their grade in the course.
Students report liking this assignment because they can be creative and
do more than a lecture.
Mike Bochenek
michaelb@elmhurst.edu

Donald E Kleist <kleist@SMTP-GW.GDLS.COM> wrote:

>>... This list has been rather
quiet these past few days...<<

I thought my membership had lapsed.

>>... Why so much emphasis on
group activities in the courses?...<<

Nearly all managers must achieve corporate goals through the
combined efforts of many people besides themselves.

>>... Most of the courses required such
activities, but I got very little from
them other than a lot of frustration...<<

Some of us are less team-oriented than others.

>>... Does forcing students who don't know
each other to work on a team teach teamwork?...<<

No. I think many of my MBA classmates did not learn the lessons
being taught about the value of team work. I for one changed my
attitudes towards teams as a direct result of the exercises the
professors used.

As an engineering student I went through undergraduate and graduate
school without joining a study group, but I would have missed out
on a lot of help in the Executive MBA program had I not joined a
study group.

>>... Did we learn how to work together?...
My experience was that we did not...<<

Our attitude towards teams and teamwork are many years in the making
and a short stint in graduate school is unlikely to change many
attitudes and even fewer behaviors.

>>... I found very little of the team
building activities that I experience
in similar activities at work. Rather,
I found that minimizing time expenditure
was the most common goal...<<

Sounds like my former engineering environment.

>>... Does forcing students to work
together let them learn from each other?...<<

Some do, some don't. One person in my study group noticed I looked
puzzled while he reviewed the accounting homework. When I explained
I had not the foggiest idea of what he was talking about he took
15 minutes to bring me up to speed. A real help to say the least.

>>... I very quickly found that I resented
the implication that I should teach these
students material that the faculty was
unsuccessful in teaching...<<

Some of us are less team oriented than others--it is a very
individual thing.

>>... I figured that they could learn
that the hard way, by working through
the math on their own...<<

Would that be a very productive approach on the job? We all have our
specialties and some have more than others. If you have a steel trap
for a mind you are indeed fortunate.

>>... Does forcing students to prepare
and present material to a class teach
them how to make effective presentations?...<<

Probably not, but it may be the first exposure for many students to
presenting in front of a hostile crowd.

>>>... I can remember at least two
occasions where mathematically
incorrect information was presented
and the instructor did not even correct
the errors. What kind of learning does this
promote?...<<

Maybe getting the correct answer was not the lesson to be learned?

>>... I also suspect that there is quite
a difference in how full-time students
react to team assignments relative to
part-time students...<<

Good point. In my Executive MBA program all 38 students were together
in all classes for the 18 month period which is quite different from
a part time program.

>>.... Just some thoughts ....<<

Mine too.

Bob

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Don Kleist wrote:
>>>>... Does forcing students to prepare
and present material to a class teach
them how to make effective presentations?...<<

Bob Gately wrote:
>>Probably not, but it may be the first exposure for many students to
presenting in front of a hostile crowd.

My experience has been that student groups are not hostile toward other
students when they are presenting. Indeed, finding warm and interested
receptivity on the part of their peers, they become more relaxed and
willing to present and hopefully readier in work contexts too.

Charlie Wankel
Kaunas University of Techology
Kaunas, Lithuania

All,

When I was a student I frankly resented
team assignments because I was stuck doing
all the work and usually received a lower
grade than the slackers. I got the criticism
for the work the slackers got the praise because
the profs didn't monitor the groups well enough.

Grrrr

However... I also taught an Intro. to Computers
class as a GTA and encouraged teams of two.

I kept a wary eye on the teams. My undergrads
were terrific at finking on any slackers to me
because they knew I expected equal participation.
Think it is up the instructor to make it work.

I teamed:

young with old
experienced user with non-experienced user
male with female

I did this with using the results
of a pretest and an extensive survey.

*I* chose the teams and it worked!

Start introducing your students to the
team approach using two. Yes, two is a
team. Ask your SO or spouse.

--
Pat Gantt pagantt@worldnet.att.net
The University of Tennessee M.S. HRD
Electronic Performance Support