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  • 1.  Converting courses to program

    Posted 10-07-1997 19:33
    Some interesting research was done on this subject several years ago. It
    seemed that while female managers saw themselves as in need of assertiveness
    training, their male colleagues viewed them as too assertive. If I were to
    conduct training for female managers it would have to include the male
    perspective to adequately capture the transactional nature of this
    relationship.

    I would include the male perspective or provide an opportunity for their male
    counterparts to become familiar with the female manager's issues.

    David Moon RN, MA
    Corporate Director
    The Cleveland Clinic Health System Center for Quality and Leadership

    montague brown wrote:

    > A query from a student is the subject of this situation.
    >
    > A course is designed to help women become more assertive members of
    > management teams. Assume that such a course could be done, done well and
    > in fact has been used as a stand alone course for a wide range of people.
    > Once done, would it then be desirable to run a similar program for the men
    > on such teams? Should this be followed by a team building course for the
    > full teams.
    >
    > In the situation a client has asked for a course for women based on
    > experience with stand alone course successes.
    >
    > What course of action should the human resource manager follow and what
    > course of action should the consultant recommend.
    >
    > My response was that if I were the human resource director my long term
    > goal would be strong teams and separate courses would likely be but a step
    > towards that goal. If I were the consultant, I would want to at a minimum
    > probe the need for the first course, the likelihood of it working long term
    > and whether or not the two additional courses might be needed.
    >
    > What do you think?
    >
    > Monty Brown
    > Editor, Health Care Management Review



    --
    ******************************************
    David Moon, Doctoral Student; Walden University
    7668 Oxgate Court, Hudson, Ohio 44236-1833
    E-mail: dmoon@waldenu.edu
    ******************************************


  • 2.  Converting courses to program

    Posted 10-07-1997 20:12
    A query from a student is the subject of this situation.

    A course is designed to help women become more assertive members of
    management teams. Assume that such a course could be done, done well and
    in fact has been used as a stand alone course for a wide range of people.
    Once done, would it then be desirable to run a similar program for the men
    on such teams? Should this be followed by a team building course for the
    full teams.

    In the situation a client has asked for a course for women based on
    experience with stand alone course successes.

    What course of action should the human resource manager follow and what
    course of action should the consultant recommend.

    My response was that if I were the human resource director my long term
    goal would be strong teams and separate courses would likely be but a step
    towards that goal. If I were the consultant, I would want to at a minimum
    probe the need for the first course, the likelihood of it working long term
    and whether or not the two additional courses might be needed.

    What do you think?

    Monty Brown
    Editor, Health Care Management Review


  • 3.  Converting courses to program

    Posted 10-07-1997 21:14
    On 7 Oct 97 at 21:55, Tom Bryant wrote:


    > I think your response was better than the question. The point is to
    > develop strong teams, and to increase the effectiveness of all
    > participants. It's unlikely that assertiveness will be a very good
    > universal answer.

    I agree, Tom because (leaving aside the effectiveness of assertive
    communication) it is just a single component of the communication
    process. One of the things I am doing is to work to define
    "cooperative communication skills", and responsiveness skills...which
    to my mind are more complete, and more likely to help if there are
    problems which are communication based.



    Robert Bacal, Inst.For Cooperative Communication, rbacal@escape.ca
    Visit our Resource Centre for articles on mgmt.,training,communication, and defusing hostility
    at http://www.escape.ca/~rbacal (204) 888-9290
    *Site Last Updated On Sept.11, 1997*


  • 4.  Converting courses to program

    Posted 10-07-1997 21:55
    At 08:12 PM 10/7/97 -0400, Monty Brown wrote:
    >A query from a student is the subject of this situation.
    >
    >A course is designed to help women become more assertive members of
    >management teams. Assume that such a course could be done, done well and
    >in fact has been used as a stand alone course for a wide range of people.
    >Once done, would it then be desirable to run a similar program for the men
    >on such teams? Should this be followed by a team building course for the
    >full teams.

    Monty:

    I think your response was better than the question. The point is to
    develop strong teams, and to increase the effectiveness of all
    participants. It's unlikely that assertiveness will be a very good
    universal answer.

    My experience with "assertiveness" training is that it tends to try to
    teach people to shout louder. If everyone is fully assertive all the time,
    we may not be able to hear anyone thinking.

    There are many roles to be played by team members. By giving those members
    a full tool kit, a company is likely to give them the skills needed to play
    a variety of roles, and thus to maximize the overall effectiveness of both
    the individuals and the teams. Some people may need to be more assertive;
    others may need to listen better...

    The question you asked, however, was about the value of gender-segregated
    training. That is a tougher question. The research does seem to show that
    separate training for females makes a difference in the range of
    experiences they will try, and hence in the experiential component of their
    learning. While the research I'm familiar with relates to girls learning
    things like math and sailing, I suspect it probably also applies to adults
    learning corporate behaviour, although I'm sure there are more mitigating
    factors.

    Differences may vary across individuals, with some women (and some men)
    being more sensitive to gender effects. Thus I'd suggest three initial
    sessions: female, male, and who cares.

    In the longer run, I don't think one round will be sufficient. New skills
    will become available and new persons will join the group. Thus a program
    of ongoing training is the preferred solution, with a mix of catch-up
    sessions for new entrants and advanced or problem-solving sessions for
    experienced hands.

    Tom Bryant.


    +*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
    Prof. Thomas A. Bryant, Ph.D.
    1997-98 Chair, Entrepreneurship Division, Admin. Sciences Assn of Canada
    (ASAC)
    Entrepreneurship Program, Faculty of Business, Brock University
    St. Catharines, ON, L2S 3A1, CANADA
    tbryant@peregrine.bus.brocku.ca
    (905) 688-5550, ext. 4372 voice
    (905) 984-4188 fax.
    e-mail: tbryant@peregrine.bus.BrockU.ca


  • 5.  Converting courses to program

    Posted 10-08-1997 02:06
    -- [ From: Lynda Rogerson * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] --

    Hi Monty,

    I teach such a course; Years ago, I used to teach it only for women.
    Then as I worked my way through various organizations, I found that a
    large number of men experience the same lack of assertiveness that
    causes a large number of women problems.

    Recently I read an article by a former Digital pal in which she writes
    about "rhetorical sensitivity." Her thesis is that certain people (may
    be male or female) are more conscientious about 'attending ' to the
    needs of others in the environment. Thus, rather than voicing their own
    abilities, needs, or observations they will use their communication time
    (air time) to direct attention to others, to assist others in
    idenitifying their abilities, needs, accomplishments, etc.

    Sometimes this is a cultural issue and sometimes it is a gender issue.
    It doesn't really matter where it comes from; the point is that it is a
    very significant factor in why some people never get taken seriously,
    never get 'heard," never feel as though they are recognized and so forth
    . Another piece of this rhetorical sensitivity behavior is that the
    individual practicing it is always "scanning" the 'attitudes' of those
    listening and tries to anticipate their values and needs in his or her
    response. Thus, they often end statements with a question mark (or an
    intonation question rather than a firm commitment).

    It's an interesting phenomenon. Now, when I teach team development, I
    spend a great deal of time on the issue of 'rhetorical sensitivity" and
    the importance of assertive communication in the organization. (It's a
    far cry from the values that were important in my gender and in my
    professional arena: 'don't blow your own horn,' 'never use "I"
    statements, "let other people go first," "don't hog the limelite' and
    so on. Each of these, while quite appropriate in social dialog with
    one's peers or elders is not really appropriate in a problem solving
    setting or in a 'board room"--especially if your 'air time' with the
    decision makers and the career makers is limited.

    The article by the way has a formidable title, but is not as abstract as
    it sounds!!

    Dell, S. (Dec., 1992) A communication-based thoery of the glass ceiling
    : Rhetorical sensitivty and upward mobility within the technical
    organizaiton. IEEE Transactions on Professional Communication Vol 35 #2
    ..

    So, I don't know if this is useful for your situation, but it certainly
    helped me in working with diversity issues, and with team training. And
    my class now called "No Apologies Necessary" is for both men and women.

    Lynda Rogerson, Ed.D.
    hxbg65a@prodigy.com
    www.lynco.com



    -------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

    Date: Tuesday, 07-Oct-97 08:11 PM

    From: Montague Brown \ Internet: (brnmont@azstarnet.com) To
    : MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU (Unlisted Name) \ Internet: (mg-ed
    -dv@maelstrom.stjohns.edu)

    Subject: Converting courses to program

    A query from a student is the subject of this situation.

    A course is designed to help women become more assertive members of
    management teams. Assume that such a course could be done, done well
    and in fact has been used as a stand alone course for a wide range of
    people. Once done, would it then be desirable to run a similar program
    for the men on such teams? Should this be followed by a team building
    course for the full teams.

    In the situation a client has asked for a course for women based on
    experience with stand alone course successes.

    What course of action should the human resource manager follow and what
    course of action should the consultant recommend.

    My response was that if I were the human resource director my long term
    goal would be strong teams and separate courses would likely be but a
    step towards that goal. If I were the consultant, I would want to at a
    minimum probe the need for the first course, the likelihood of it
    working long term and whether or not the two additional courses might be
    needed.

    What do you think?

    Monty Brown
    Editor, Health Care Management Review


    -------- REPLY, End of original message


  • 6.  Converting courses to program

    Posted 10-08-1997 13:54
    Monty Brown wrote ...

    >A course is designed to help women become more assertive members of
    >management teams. Assume that such a course could be done, ...would it
    >then be desirable to run a similar program for the men on such teams?
    >Should this be followed by a team building course for the full teams.
    >

    I am inclined against using separate courses. If I base this on a
    theory it is my belief that people learn most efficiently
    [I'm thinking of both the speed and appropriateness of the learning]
    when they learn in the context within which the new knowledge will
    be used.

    In addition, it occurs to me that
    there may subdivisions other than male/female within a team that
    are just as limiting to open communication and team learning.
    For example, junior members may have trouble asserting themselves
    whether they are male or female.

    I would focus the course mainly on interpersonal communication. A
    second agenda would be to show that silent members may have skills
    and knowledge to contribute that is lost to the team when these
    members either won't speak or they do speak but aren't heard.

    The teaching method I would use would be based on the two column
    case method that can be found in Argyris and Schön's _Theory in Practice_.
    The cases themselves would come from team members who would be
    invited to describe a situation in which they felt inhibited
    from speaking, or not heard, or not understood, ...

    Each case would give a bit of background, would state the case
    writer's strategy going into the situation and then would
    give a sample of dialogue from a critical portion of the incident.
    The dialogue is presented in the right-hand column of a 2-column
    table. In the left-hand column the case writer notes what she
    was thinking / feeling as she said what she said or heard what the
    other person said.

    The facilitator should be someone skilled at leading learning
    from cases such as I have described. A pitfall is that the
    facilitator will espouse one theory of action while implementing
    something contrary in his own interventions with learners.

    Bob Putnam, Diana Smith, and Phil McArthur give terrific courses
    that make heavy use of these 2-column cases. Contact them at
    Action Design, Inc., 89 Black Oak Rd., Weston, MA 02193.

    Ken


    Kenneth M. Brown
    Professor of Forestry
    Lakehead University
    Thunder Bay, ON
    Canada P7B 5E1

    Voice: (807) 343-8114 (W)
    (807) 344-8638 (H)
    Fax: (807) 343-8116
    e-mail: kbrown@mist.lakeheadu.ca
    or: ken.brown@lakeheadu.ca


  • 7.  Converting courses to program

    Posted 10-08-1997 20:52
    Thanks for your comments. Actually this is not my program but one relayed
    to me by two students. As I relayed your comments, they indicated that the
    training was not strictly speaking assertiveness training. The request for
    the training came by Firm management (CEO) after it was requested or
    recommended by a focus group of women in the firm. It appears that at this
    point, there may be another course for minorities (again by request of
    workers) and, perhaps, later team building courses for teams.

    again, I enjoyed all the comments.

    Monty Brown
    Editor, Health Care Management Review
    >
    >I think your response was better than the question. The point is to
    >develop strong teams, and to increase the effectiveness of all
    >participants. It's unlikely that assertiveness will be a very good
    >universal answer.
    >
    >
    >There are many roles to be played by team members. By giving those members
    >a full tool kit, a company is likely to give them the skills needed to play
    >a variety of roles, and thus to maximize the overall effectiveness of both
    >the individuals and the teams. Some people may need to be more assertive;
    >others may need to listen better...
    >
    >The question you asked, however, was about the value of gender-segregated
    >training. That is a tougher question. The research does seem to show that
    >separate training for females makes a difference in the range of
    >experiences they will try, and hence in the experiential component of their
    >learning. While the research I'm familiar with relates to girls learning
    >things like math and sailing, I suspect it probably also applies to adults
    >learning corporate behaviour, although I'm sure there are more mitigating
    >factors.
    >
    >Differences may vary across individuals, with some women (and some men)
    >being more sensitive to gender effects. Thus I'd suggest three initial
    >sessions: female, male, and who cares.
    >
    >In the longer run, I don't think one round will be sufficient. New skills
    >will become available and new persons will join the group. Thus a program
    >of ongoing training is the preferred solution, with a mix of catch-up
    >sessions for new entrants and advanced or problem-solving sessions for
    >experienced hands.
    >
    >Tom Bryant.

    Thanks Tom, The students are very much in agreement with your comments as
    am I.

    As I have been reading complexity theory recently it would appear that
    learning and training are constants, not occasional needs. Certainly my
    own life seems to go that way!


    >
    >
    >+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
    >Prof. Thomas A. Bryant, Ph.D.
    >1997-98 Chair, Entrepreneurship Division, Admin. Sciences Assn of Canada
    >(ASAC)
    >Entrepreneurship Program, Faculty of Business, Brock University
    >St. Catharines, ON, L2S 3A1, CANADA
    >tbryant@peregrine.bus.brocku.ca
    >(905) 688-5550, ext. 4372 voice
    >(905) 984-4188 fax.
    >e-mail: tbryant@peregrine.bus.BrockU.ca
    >
    >


  • 8.  Converting courses to program

    Posted 10-09-1997 01:10
    I do not if this is useful to you folks. But one of my colleagues had
    done award winning (acad. Of management) work on tokenism. Essentially
    what he found- and several others also did- was this: when women/
    minorities in a group exhibited behavior which will be normally
    considered "assertive", men/ majority ethnic group members judged it
    as "aggressive." You can get the details and possibly a copy of his
    paper. His name is Li JI and his address appears under the Cc above.
    Li Ji, apologies for giving out your name without asking first. I
    presume it is harmless. Regards, Rao

    N. Rao Kowtha
    Department of Organisational Behavior
    Faculty of Business Administration
    National University of Singapore
    10 Kent Ridge Crescent
    Singapore 119260, Singapore
    Tel: (65) 8743049
    Fax: (65) 775 5571