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  • 1.  re. Why Training Fails

    Posted 10-08-1997 16:39
    On 9 Oct 97 at 10:14, Stephen Scicluna wrote:

    > . . . or alternatively, "Bob Gately vs. the rest"
    >
    > Guys, can we call a time out on this, as the discussion seems to be
    > degenerating into a debate between Bob (purveyor of selection instruments,
    > which, incidentally, I don't hold too much faith in) and those who want to
    > question his motives and opinions.

    Perhaps we can focus on the larger issues here regarding the
    provision of services to managers, be they selection tools,
    self-assessment tools for growth, consulting or training. That, to me
    is the issue, not Bob.

    Bob simply is an exemplar of a problem in the field of management and
    management development. It goes something like this:

    Someone develops a product, service or tool, and markets it
    effectively (regardless of it's value..could be good, maybe not). In
    the case of the Prevue tool it was developed by a credible
    psychologist in the UK I believe).

    The tool or service is sold to middle people who have little
    background in the tool or service...the example here is psychological
    testing being sold by vendors to companies and managers by people who
    have NO background except for what little training they might get
    from the parent company. What it DOES take is money to get "in".

    Those folks sell direct to companies, and will often make claims out
    of ignorance, commitment or intention in order to make a living. For
    those that have some knowledge of these things, the claims are
    clearly overstated (at best). For those that know less, there is a
    danger that they will be sucked in by the marketing hype and promises
    (often very vague), and spend huge amounts of money without getting
    results.

    The reason I respond on the issue of selection is the overstated,
    vague, unsupported claims made by someone who is not a professional
    in the field. I treat trainers who make the same kinds of claims the
    same way...and will continue to do so.

    I think (and perhaps I am in the minority here) that each of us
    involved in management education, training and HR has a
    responsibility to point out what may be unethical or inaccurate
    claims. And there is a self-serving reason for doing so. Our fields
    (the ones above) are not taken all that seriously by corporate
    decision makers because of the hypsters, fad sellers, etc. We need to
    send a message to incompetent, unethical vendors that they cannot
    make claims without them being examined. We also need to educate
    consumers so that legitimate professionals in the field can build
    their credibility.

    Please don't take this as a comment on Bob's ethics or anything else.
    This is a much larger issue regarding our professions(s). It is not,
    Bob vs. the rest. It is about whether we as professionals or
    academics will tolerate quietly our own reputations being tarnished
    by unsupported and impossible claims.


    Robert Bacal, Inst.For Cooperative Communication, rbacal@escape.ca
    Visit our Resource Centre for articles on mgmt.,training,communication, and defusing hostility
    at http://www.escape.ca/~rbacal (204) 888-9290
    *Site Last Updated On Sept.11, 1997*


  • 2.  re. Why Training Fails

    Posted 10-08-1997 20:14
    . . . or alternatively, "Bob Gately vs. the rest"

    Guys, can we call a time out on this, as the discussion seems to be
    degenerating into a debate between Bob (purveyor of selection instruments,
    which, incidentally, I don't hold too much faith in) and those who want to
    question his motives and opinions.

    Can this now debate continue on a one-on-one basis between the protagonists,
    now that Bob has defended himself, and let the rest of us get on with
    following the actual topic of the thread.

    Thanks,

    - Steve

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    Training & Education Manager Fax: +613 9251 3639
    connect.com.au Pty Ltd email: scicluna@connect.com.au
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    AUSTRALIA


  • 3.  re. Why Training Fails

    Posted 10-09-1997 01:04
    Stephen Scicluna <scicluna@CONNECT.COM.AU>, wrote:

    >>... Can this now debate continue on a one-on-one basis between the
    protagonists, now that Bob has defended himself, and let the rest of us get
    on with following the actual topic of the thread...<<

    I only reply to the list when messages are sent to the list instead of to
    me. I'd be happy to correspond privately, but some list members are more
    interested making public derogatory comments than in asking questions to
    learn something new. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

    Bob