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Hi Bob (your message is below),

This is a really interesting point to me, and one that could generate some
debate, I presume.

I think that in supporting others we certainly are interested in behavior,
and feedback can be solicited, which is essential.

On the other hand, I believe that it is the person who is developing
empathy who is in charge of the motivation for change, the change itself,
and ultimately determining for themselves how satisfied they are with
what's happening.

I combine this with the belief that empathy exists without behavior, is
very valuable as such (possibly in the avoiding of behavior), and finally
is often a foundation and precursor to behavior. Then I reach the
conclusion that there is an awful lot that cannot be fruitfully measured
here, and the attempt to measure it could be misleading and destructive.

I don't think that behavior is more important than feeling. I do agree
though that it is behavior which is appropriate for measurement sometimes.

I'm not sure that I would call empathy strictly a feeling. It certainly
involves that realm of things. But, I think that empathy involves
understanding which also involves ideas.

I hope you will want to continue this discussion. I'd like to hear more
about what you think on it!

>Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 15:37:21 -0400
>From: Bob Gately <gately@COMPUSERVE.COM>
>Subject: Re: Training Effectiveness

>>>... There are plenty of areas that we can help people with...which are
>not measurable, for example how much empathy they try to have for someone
>else...<<

>Can't we solicit feedback from the person's colleagues, subordinates and
>supervisors to determine if the person's behavior has improved? If it
>hasn't improved, does it matter how much empathy he has? Aren't we more
>concerned with behavior than feelings?

Don Austin, Ph.D.
_____________________________________
Department of Organizational Behavior
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland, OH 44106 (216) 932-8421
_____________________________________

Researching processes with which small
groups create valued organization.

Creating Appreciative Dialogue.

Donald P. Austin <dpa2@PO.CWRU.EDU> wrote:

(Hi Don)

>>... This is a really interesting point to me, and one that could generate
some debate, I presume...<<

I agree.

>>>... it is the person who is developing empathy who is in charge of the
motivation for change, the change itself, and ultimately determining for
themselves how satisfied they are with what's happening...<

I agree since you are talking about the person who is developing the
empathy. I have trouble when we talk about making someone other than
ourselves develop empathy.

>>... empathy exists without behavior, is very valuable as such (possibly
in the avoiding of behavior), and finally is often a foundation and
precursor to behavior...<<

I agree, since people can have both empathy and inappropriate behaviors.
That is why I suggest we start with behavior. If empathy is there it may
just need a little help to come out. If empathy isn't there, it may take a
long time of coaching and counseling to develop it, but we do need to get
their behavior corrected anyway.

>>... Then I reach the conclusion that there is an awful lot that cannot be
fruitfully measured here, and the attempt to measure it could be misleading
and destructive...<<

I agree, that is why I suggest managers ought to stick to the measurable
and observable.

>>.... I don't think that behavior is more important than feeling ...<<

Well, if the boss is yelling and screaming at an employee for coming in
late the employee doesn't really care how the boss is feeling since the
boss' feelings are not detectable, it is the boss' behavior that cause the
problems. True, feelings may lead to inappropriate behavior but it is still
the behavior that causes the problem--the negative reaction of the employee
and all those who are listening.

>>... I think that empathy involves understanding which also involves
ideas...<<

I agree, but it is the outward manifestation of empathy that we are really
concerned with--how a person exhibits their empathy. Unspoken empathy is
the same as no empathy to the recipient.

>>... I hope you will want to continue this discussion...<<

I'm always looking to refine my ideas and change them when necessary.

I think the following comes from the book "13 Fatal Errors Managers Make
and how to avoid them":

1 - Thoughts lead to Feelings.
2 - Feelings lead to Activities
3 - Activities lead to Habits
4 - Habits lead to Results
5 - Results equal success.

Therefore, we must get poorly behaving employees to have the thoughts that
generate the feelings that cause the activities that lead to the habits
that get the right results. In other words, by focusing on behavior--the
observable--we can get employees to think about their behavior so that they
can then have the thoughts they need to develop their feelings, etc.


Bob