Discussion: View Thread

you may want to start with the article on Duke in this week's Business Week

most schools have some semblance of communicating with their students by
email

the real question is how it impacts learning.

((Original message follows))

Hi,
Our organisation has been working with a number of others for some time
now in providing competency-based training and assessment over the 'net.

The simple premise is that if you identify exactly what it is that
individuals are expected to do, and the level at which they do it, in
the workplace then this becomes the focal point for learning and
assessment. In some cases people already have the desired skills and
knowledge and an interactive assessment is carried out against evidence
that they bring forward to support such a claim. Those who either don't
yet have the skills or knowledge, or have some of them, are linked with
a distance education course and at the end are assessed using the same
processes.

The trick is to throw off the shackles of trying to meet the learning
objectives and assessment criteria - there is no way that this will work
as satisfactorily as identifying what skills and knowledge are needed as
a result of the activity. This way it doesn't really matter how the
activity is structured which, in turn, allows each student to tackle the
process in his/her own way and at his/her own speed.

We've just about (I've been saying that for a couple of weeks now but
those who've worked with software specialists will know that this is a
standard statement) finished an interactive internet tool that allows
for assessment to be carried out anywhere in the world at any time. When
I'm a bit more confident that the releasable bit is closer to our
quality requirements I'll let loose with the URL of our website.

Having been involved in this and similar processes here and overseas for
the past 6 years I am convinced that this process is only going to get
bigger and bigger. We have already been contacted by several large
multinational trainers and potential users which tells me that the
interest is there - and getting bigger.

PHIL RUTHERFORD
robnphil@ozemail.com.au



Michael Sheehan wrote:
>
> I recently posted this message to the TRDEV-L list and was contacted
> by this list's moderated (thanks Charlie), who suggested that I pose
> the same questions to you all.
>
> Essentially, what I am trying to gauge is how actively the educational
> and training community (whether it be corporate or higher-ed) is
> utilizing the Internet and advances in software design to bring
> interactive learning to remote users. (Please let me know if I should
> clarify more.)
>
> Any information that I gather, I will try to post to the group. Thanks
> in advance to any help that you may be able to provide.
>
> Best,
>
> Michael
>
> [-- begin post --]
>
> Greetings all,
>
> I'm a newbie to this group but I feel pretty lucky to have found it. I
> have a question for all of the trainers and educators on this list,
> actually a couple of questions.
>
> I was wondering how many people are teaching or training over the
> Internet (e.g., providing courses, testing, tracking students, etc.)?
> Of those people who are, how are you doing it? Using proprietary
> software? Is it interactive? Does anyone have any examples of a course
> (or courseware) that they have created?
>
> The reason that I am asking is because I attended the Macromedia User
> Conference this week in San Francisco, and there were many exciting
> announcements that directly affect their Learning Division. They also
> launched a new site for the Training Division located at:
> http://www.macromedia.com/learning
> which has all of the recent press releases. Some of the highlights
> are:
>
> * Macromedia today announced the acquisition of Solis Inc. of San
> Mateo, a leader in open on-line learning management systems.
>
> * Macromedia and RealNetworks today announced a collaboration to
> integrate RealNetworks' RealVideo into Macromedia's Authorware
> training applications.
>
> * Macromedia and Interactive Media form Strategic Alliance
>
> * WBT Systems Teams With Macromedia to Broaden Support for Open
> Standards and to Develop a High Level of Integration Between Their
> Respective Web-Based Learning Technologies
>
> I would love to find out from you all what direction you think on-line
> learning or the "virtual classroom" will take in Higher Education as
> well as in the business place.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael Sheehan
>
> [-- end post --]

----------
> From: Michael Weisman <mweisman@PACKET.NET>
> IMHO, I do not think that we have arrived at useful distance learning
> techniques. Short of the lecture series that we have all been subjected
> to, in which the audience is not permitted to ask anything, I feel that
> the loss of interaction dramatically reduces it's effectivness.
>


Well Michael -- IMHO some of us have arrived at useful distance learning
techniques! I have been teaching in the University of Phoenix Online MBA
program for over two years -- and the possibilities of intense education
are amazing. Rather than interacting for a few classroom hours my students
can interact 24 hours a day 7 days a week on the topic at hand. The
primary problem I see is that distance learning is being held back by those
whose primary perception is onground classroom lecture based -- and
unfortunately those are the people who make the rules today (which is why
today still looks like yesterday.)

John

John D Tongren
Tongren & Associates
jtongren@coactiveconnection.com
http://www.coactiveconnection.com
616-780-4440
Advocate CoActive Control & Audit

On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:06:15 -0700, "T.J. Elliott" <tjell@IDT.NET> wrote:

>John D Tongren wrote:

>> > From: Michael Weisman <mweisman@PACKET.NET>
>> > IMHO, I do not think that we have arrived at useful distance learning
>> > techniques. <snip>

>> Well Michael -- IMHO some of us have arrived at useful distance learning
>> techniques! I have been teaching in the University of Phoenix Online MBA
>> program for over two years -- and the possibilities of intense education
>> are amazing. Rather than interacting for a few classroom hours my students
>> can interact 24 hours a day 7 days a week on the topic at hand.

I concur with John ... I have been teaching modules of Victoria
University's (Wellington, New Zealand) M.Comms for two years, using the
Internet in multiple ways ... it is the delivery medium for online
audiographic (and occasionally video-) conferencing during our seminars.
Hypertext documents on the web provide the basis for reading and research
on each of the topics, and mandatory participation in a closed listserver
discussion on questions imbedded in the resource pages all contribute to
"useful distance learning techniques"

>What would you think of a course which required students to build their
>own hyper-texts?

This is something that my students are required to do, though Mr Gates has
made the actual technical creation an almost trivial task. Many programs
now have a "save as HTML" option.

>They model them on one that the instructor has
>constructed. Their objective is to build a site that covers the subject
>matter in such a way that others can learn.

I prefer to leave them free to select their own model ... I encourage those
who suffer from communication apprehension to imitate other sites, but I
have been amazed and delighted at the wealth of talent which emerges from
my students. Those with a real design sense, in particular produce some
elegant learning tools.
(snip)

>Such distance learning techniques
>exist. They are not the substitute for other forms; it's "and/both" not
>"either/or". They allow for diferent ways to knowledge. I think Mr.
>Tongren has a pretty good point.

Yes. We have gone through a steep learning process, and though its not
perfect, we have delivered our courses to classes which combine local and
distance participation. Students at the distant site do need access to
technical support to configure sound and graphics packages, but the rest is
all rather ordinary mail and web browsers.

There is a real prospect we will go international next year, though for
convenience of staying within reasonable time-differences, we will be
starting with Pacific island states.


Brian M Harmer - Department of Communication Studies
Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand
email brian.harmer@vuw.ac.nz http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~bharmer/
Thou shalt not sit with statisticians nor commit a social science - W.H. Auden

John D Tongren wrote:
>
> ----------
> > From: Michael Weisman <mweisman@PACKET.NET>
> > IMHO, I do not think that we have arrived at useful distance learning
> > techniques. <snip>

<snip>
> Well Michael -- IMHO some of us have arrived at useful distance learning
> techniques! I have been teaching in the University of Phoenix Online MBA
> program for over two years -- and the possibilities of intense education
> are amazing. Rather than interacting for a few classroom hours my students
> can interact 24 hours a day 7 days a week on the topic at hand.

What would you think of a course which required students to build their
own hyper-texts? They model them on one that the instructor has
constructed. Their objective is to build a site that covers the subject
matter in such a way that others can learn. The students are encouraged
to interact with each other in any way they choose (phone, BBS, e-mail)
to get it right. They also have sessions with the the instructor via
shareware where they deal with questions of content. They can ask
additional questions at any time via e-mail or the phone. Their own task
in building the site is to follow the events of instruction: attention
deployed, practice facilitated, etc. Such distance learning techniques
exist. They are not the substitute for other forms; it's "and/both" not
"either/or". They allow for diferent ways to knowledge. I think Mr.
Tongren has a pretty good point.

All the best,
--
T.J. Elliott
Cavanaugh Leahy
http://idt.net/~tjell
914 366-7499

Brian Harmer <brian.harmer@VUW.AC.NZ> wrote that:

> a closed listserver discussion on questions imbedded in the
> resource pages all contribute to "useful distance learning techniques"

I went to his home page
http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~bharmer/
and looking at the description of this in one course's material
http://www.vuw.ac.nz/comms/courses/comm503/index.htm
found
> By the Thursday preceding each seminar, there will be a WWW
> resource page for the topic to be discussed. Every student is
> expected to have read the materials provided by the lecturer in the
> form of the web resources, and to have conducted further independent
> research into each theme. There are questions embedded in the web
> resource which require each student to participate in discussion and
> debate on the class e-mail listserver.

This really world-class!

I also require all my St. John's University students to use web-resources
in my courses and am very interested in this as a topic.
I propose that we initiate a discussion (thread) on examples of the
sorts of web assignments and associated questions that currently work
well in teaching management and other topics--and which don't work.
I find that student assignments to do updates of Harvard Business
School and other case studies using the www works very well.
I give "extra credit" for the student who comes in with the most
recent update of the case situation. Often students come in with
material from the past few days. All students who find material on
the www get some extra credit, though it varies according the originality
and relevance of the material. I also ask them to come in with updates
on contextual factors--the industry, relevant government regulation, etc.
I find by not REQUIRING updates but just permitting them for EXTRA CREDIT
a culture is created in which nearly everyone contributes but those with
cyberphobia and fear of the Internet are less threatened by the student
who has two degrees in electrical engineering and computer science
and now works full-time in a campus computer lab. Students report
that the web skills that they obtain are very helpful at work here in New
York City. The relevant backgrounds that students come with are
increasing technically diverse. Many are now on intranets at work but
not on the broader Internet, for example. Increasingly students have
access or own color printers and come in with their "updates" from
the web in fabulous-looking multicolor printouts. I have a computer
with a projector and Internet access in all of my classes but they
don't work that well. Students find it difficult to read things. I guess
we went with the wrong vendor. Indeed I heard that the vendor is
coming back to fix things. I may try to hold a segment of class in a
computer lab where each student will have computer and we can
go through the "updates" from the web online together.
Let's hear from some more of us!
Cybercollegially
Charlie Wankel
St. John's University--New York City
netmaster mg-ed-dv

Has anyone thought of offering this sort of service to other educators
who might not be capable of injecting the sort of funding to set this up
on their own?

I'm not sure if it is possible but perhaps a single server site that
offers multi choices of courses - from anywhere in the world and beamed
at anyone in the world - could have elements of it leased. We are doing
this with the assessment side but are thinking of joining up with others
on the delivery.

Any thoughts?

PHIL RUTHERFORD
robnphil@ozemail.com.au



Charlie Wankel wrote:
>
> Brian Harmer <brian.harmer@VUW.AC.NZ> wrote that:
>
> > a closed listserver discussion on questions imbedded in the
> > resource pages all contribute to "useful distance learning techniques"
>
> I went to his home page
> http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~bharmer/
> and looking at the description of this in one course's material
> http://www.vuw.ac.nz/comms/courses/comm503/index.htm
> found
> > By the Thursday preceding each seminar, there will be a WWW
> > resource page for the topic to be discussed. Every student is
> > expected to have read the materials provided by the lecturer in the
> > form of the web resources, and to have conducted further independent
> > research into each theme. There are questions embedded in the web
> > resource which require each student to participate in discussion and
> > debate on the class e-mail listserver.
>
> This really world-class!
>
> I also require all my St. John's University students to use web-resources
> in my courses and am very interested in this as a topic.
> I propose that we initiate a discussion (thread) on examples of the
> sorts of web assignments and associated questions that currently work
> well in teaching management and other topics--and which don't work.
> I find that student assignments to do updates of Harvard Business
> School and other case studies using the www works very well.
> I give "extra credit" for the student who comes in with the most
> recent update of the case situation. Often students come in with
> material from the past few days. All students who find material on
> the www get some extra credit, though it varies according the originality
> and relevance of the material. I also ask them to come in with updates
> on contextual factors--the industry, relevant government regulation, etc.
> I find by not REQUIRING updates but just permitting them for EXTRA CREDIT
> a culture is created in which nearly everyone contributes but those with
> cyberphobia and fear of the Internet are less threatened by the student
> who has two degrees in electrical engineering and computer science
> and now works full-time in a campus computer lab. Students report
> that the web skills that they obtain are very helpful at work here in New
> York City. The relevant backgrounds that students come with are
> increasing technically diverse. Many are now on intranets at work but
> not on the broader Internet, for example. Increasingly students have
> access or own color printers and come in with their "updates" from
> the web in fabulous-looking multicolor printouts. I have a computer
> with a projector and Internet access in all of my classes but they
> don't work that well. Students find it difficult to read things. I guess
> we went with the wrong vendor. Indeed I heard that the vendor is
> coming back to fix things. I may try to hold a segment of class in a
> computer lab where each student will have computer and we can
> go through the "updates" from the web online together.
> Let's hear from some more of us!
> Cybercollegially
> Charlie Wankel
> St. John's University--New York City
> netmaster mg-ed-dv

also look at www.study.net for access to tools for using HBS cases and HBR
articles-instructor tools are free

Rob,
There are organizations (private companies) that have put together web
course management tools for academia that not only provide on-line
assessment and communication but also provide tools that allow instructors
to place materials on-line quickly. For an example of such a company visit
http://www.courseinfo.com.
Hope this helps.


At 09:26 AM 10/21/97 +1000, you wrote:
>Has anyone thought of offering this sort of service to other educators
>who might not be capable of injecting the sort of funding to set this up
>on their own?
>
>I'm not sure if it is possible but perhaps a single server site that
>offers multi choices of courses - from anywhere in the world and beamed
>at anyone in the world - could have elements of it leased. We are doing
>this with the assessment side but are thinking of joining up with others
>on the delivery.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>PHIL RUTHERFORD
>robnphil@ozemail.com.au
>
>
>
>Charlie Wankel wrote:
>>
>> Brian Harmer <brian.harmer@VUW.AC.NZ> wrote that:
>>
>> > a closed listserver discussion on questions imbedded in the
>> > resource pages all contribute to "useful distance learning techniques"
>>
>> I went to his home page
>> http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~bharmer/
>> and looking at the description of this in one course's material
>> http://www.vuw.ac.nz/comms/courses/comm503/index.htm
>> found
>> > By the Thursday preceding each seminar, there will be a WWW
>> > resource page for the topic to be discussed. Every student is
>> > expected to have read the materials provided by the lecturer in the
>> > form of the web resources, and to have conducted further independent
>> > research into each theme. There are questions embedded in the web
>> > resource which require each student to participate in discussion and
>> > debate on the class e-mail listserver.
>>
>> This really world-class!
>>
>> I also require all my St. John's University students to use
web-resources
>> in my courses and am very interested in this as a topic.
>> I propose that we initiate a discussion (thread) on examples of the
>> sorts of web assignments and associated questions that currently work
>> well in teaching management and other topics--and which don't work.
>> I find that student assignments to do updates of Harvard Business
>> School and other case studies using the www works very well.
>> I give "extra credit" for the student who comes in with the most
>> recent update of the case situation. Often students come in with
>> material from the past few days. All students who find material on
>> the www get some extra credit, though it varies according the originality
>> and relevance of the material. I also ask them to come in with updates
>> on contextual factors--the industry, relevant government regulation, etc.
>> I find by not REQUIRING updates but just permitting them for EXTRA CREDIT
>> a culture is created in which nearly everyone contributes but those with
>> cyberphobia and fear of the Internet are less threatened by the student
>> who has two degrees in electrical engineering and computer science
>> and now works full-time in a campus computer lab. Students report
>> that the web skills that they obtain are very helpful at work here in New
>> York City. The relevant backgrounds that students come with are
>> increasing technically diverse. Many are now on intranets at work but
>> not on the broader Internet, for example. Increasingly students have
>> access or own color printers and come in with their "updates" from
>> the web in fabulous-looking multicolor printouts. I have a computer
>> with a projector and Internet access in all of my classes but they
>> don't work that well. Students find it difficult to read things. I guess
>> we went with the wrong vendor. Indeed I heard that the vendor is
>> coming back to fix things. I may try to hold a segment of class in a
>> computer lab where each student will have computer and we can
>> go through the "updates" from the web online together.
>> Let's hear from some more of us!
>> Cybercollegially
>> Charlie Wankel
>> St. John's University--New York City
>> netmaster mg-ed-dv
>

> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:29:35 -0400
> From: Charlie Wankel <cx@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> Subject: Re: Distance Learning via the web?

***
I'm just getting caught up, so i apologize for being late with this
response. i've tried some of these and offer the following
observations and comments.

<snip - snip - snip>

> I find that student assignments to do updates of Harvard Business
> School and other case studies using the www works very well.

<snip - snip - snip>

i have to take exception to this internet use of cases developed for
another pedagogy. i've always been reluctant to have students update
traditional cases because they should be self-contained. getting
additional information might test important skills but is not the
intended purpose of the decision in the case. however, i do believe
that cases will evolve to take advantage of both the internet and
multi-media technologies. (another example of a paradigm shift.)
for instance, i developed this one and hope to work on it further:

http://www.albany.edu/~pm157/teaching/global/gec.html

i'm also involved in a team-taught freshman living and learning
experience called "project renaissance" where i teach the social
science module with an emphasis on business and management. i just
completed the first module and began the second, so i reflected on my
use of a web page:

http://www.albany.edu/~pm157/teaching/projren/projren.html

imho students will rarely seek out all that neat stuff we provide on
the internet. the challenge is to develop exercises and other
relevant assignments on the internet. so, the first change i made
was to include a specific internet assignment with each session.
(yeah, the proverbial stick.) most of the sites are self-assessment
instruments (which i will probably be criticized for) and some are
case-based. i also know that if i don't build on these assignments
in class they won't continue to do them. it's too early to tell if
there will be any meaningful change in their use of the web page and
its value.
_____________________
Paul Miesing
http://www.albany.edu/~pm157

> On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Charlie Wankel wrote:
>
> > Whoa!
> > Paul, thanks for sharing this great Internet imbued case with us. Some
> > questions--if you will:
> > (1) how much time and money was required to do this case?

my co-author developed the paper version for a training program in
japan for finance managers. he based it on an earlier ibm case, and
it was heavily tilted toward the finances of a joint venture proposal
in thailand. (this is acknowledged at the end of the case.) we
teamed up in an mba course, where i was the tekkie as well as the
"strategist" so naturally i developed it into a bit broader
assignment. as far as the tekkie stuff goes, i spent a few days
finding the links. i'll probably update most of them. money??? it
was my course prep! my thinking was to push a traditional case
further with ever-changing updates. at the time, the decision was
pretty desirable; today, southeast asia is in financial turmoil.
this way, students don't have to update as long as the web page
owners do. so, it's really a web-based case: unknown partners
sharing in learning. more on these points below ...
>
> > (2) are you selling it for us at other institutions?

selling? nah, it's publicly-available. i've posted before about
my feelings that not only "information wants to be free" (brant) but
also that if you post it on the net, you are offering it to everyone.
if you don't want others to appropriate your intellectual property,
than press a cd-rom and mail it to paying customers. yeah, the
latter costs more. i can say more but don't want to digress. the
only thing i ask is that anyone using it to generate revenue get in
touch with me. that's what i do when a web page includes a similar
request. it's like writing a paper, and we should get credit at our
institution. at most universities, though, teaching doesn't count
and instructional technologies -- while encouraged -- is rarely
rewarded.
>
> > (3) are textbook publishers going to be using this or things like this?

actually, i'm working with a couple of upstarts to offer this model
(with other products and services) but it's in the early stages.
textbook pulishers haven't figured out what to do with the
technology. there are a lot of web-based technologies available
today, so i'll probably try some of them next spring.
>
> > (4) I would appreciate it if you would describe the process of crafting this
> > case. That is,
> > what technical software resources etc. did you use?
> > how do locate the hyperlinks you used--systemmatically or randomly
> > stumbling upon them?

it was pretty straightforward ... my colleague gave me a file with
his version, which i converted to html and found the links. they
were all found systematically; i don't recall getting lucky except
for a chance reading of an item i thought might fit, then adding it
later. as far as web-editors, there are quite a few good ones
available now so if you can use a word processor you now have no
excuses. i'm amused at the number of my colleagues who assign their
web page development to a ta. the learning to get started might be
as high as any other technology, but pretty easy once you get going.
>
> > (5) what's coming next?

well, as i mentioned i hope to work with a start-up to develop
similar materials. i also have a very complicated in-basket for
business ethics using lotus notes (paper available on my web page).
i'll probably update this one and try a couple of new ones next
spring.
>

> > Again, thanks for sharing this wonderful and fun case with us.
> > Cybercollegially,
thanks for your interest and support!
>
> > Charlie Wankel
> > mg-ed-dv netmaster
> >
> > Paul Miesing wrote:
> >
> > > > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:29:35 -0400
> > > > From: Charlie Wankel <cx@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> > > > Subject: Re: Distance Learning via the web?
> > >
> > > ***
> > > I'm just getting caught up, so i apologize for being late with this
> > > response. i've tried some of these and offer the following
> > > observations and comments.
> > >
> > > <snip - snip - snip>
> > >
> > > > I find that student assignments to do updates of Harvard Business
> > > > School and other case studies using the www works very well.
> > >
> > > <snip - snip - snip>
> > >
> > > i have to take exception to this internet use of cases developed for
> > > another pedagogy. i've always been reluctant to have students update
> > > traditional cases because they should be self-contained. getting
> > > additional information might test important skills but is not the
> > > intended purpose of the decision in the case. however, i do believe
> > > that cases will evolve to take advantage of both the internet and
> > > multi-media technologies. (another example of a paradigm shift.)
> > > for instance, i developed this one and hope to work on it further:
> > >
> > > http://www.albany.edu/~pm157/teaching/global/gec.html
> > >
> > > i'm also involved in a team-taught freshman living and learning
> > > experience called "project renaissance" where i teach the social
> > > science module with an emphasis on business and management. i just
> > > completed the first module and began the second, so i reflected on my
> > > use of a web page:
> > >
> > > http://www.albany.edu/~pm157/teaching/projren/projren.html
> > >
> > > imho students will rarely seek out all that neat stuff we provide on
> > > the internet. the challenge is to develop exercises and other
> > > relevant assignments on the internet. so, the first change i made
> > > was to include a specific internet assignment with each session.
> > > (yeah, the proverbial stick.) most of the sites are self-assessment
> > > instruments (which i will probably be criticized for) and some are
> > > case-based. i also know that if i don't build on these assignments
> > > in class they won't continue to do them. it's too early to tell if
> > > there will be any meaningful change in their use of the web page and
> > > its value.

_____________________
Paul Miesing
http://www.albany.edu/~pm157

Whoa!
Paul, thanks for sharing this great Internet imbued case with us. Some
questions--if you will:
(1) how much time and money was required to do this case?
(2) are you selling it for us at other institutions?
(3) are textbook publishers going to be using this or things like this?
(4) I would appreciate it if you would describe the process of crafting this
case. That is,
what technical software resources etc. did you use?
how do locate the hyperlinks you used--systemmatically or randomly
stumbling upon them?
(5) what's coming next?
Again, thanks for sharing this wonderful and fun case with us.
Cybercollegially,
Charlie Wankel
mg-ed-dv netmaster
Paul Miesing wrote:

> > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:29:35 -0400
> > From: Charlie Wankel <cx@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> > Subject: Re: Distance Learning via the web?
>
> ***
> I'm just getting caught up, so i apologize for being late with this
> response. i've tried some of these and offer the following
> observations and comments.
>
> <snip - snip - snip>
>
> > I find that student assignments to do updates of Harvard Business
> > School and other case studies using the www works very well.
>
> <snip - snip - snip>
>
> i have to take exception to this internet use of cases developed for
> another pedagogy. i've always been reluctant to have students update
> traditional cases because they should be self-contained. getting
> additional information might test important skills but is not the
> intended purpose of the decision in the case. however, i do believe
> that cases will evolve to take advantage of both the internet and
> multi-media technologies. (another example of a paradigm shift.)
> for instance, i developed this one and hope to work on it further:
>
> http://www.albany.edu/~pm157/teaching/global/gec.html
>
> i'm also involved in a team-taught freshman living and learning
> experience called "project renaissance" where i teach the social
> science module with an emphasis on business and management. i just
> completed the first module and began the second, so i reflected on my
> use of a web page:
>
> http://www.albany.edu/~pm157/teaching/projren/projren.html
>
> imho students will rarely seek out all that neat stuff we provide on
> the internet. the challenge is to develop exercises and other
> relevant assignments on the internet. so, the first change i made
> was to include a specific internet assignment with each session.
> (yeah, the proverbial stick.) most of the sites are self-assessment
> instruments (which i will probably be criticized for) and some are
> case-based. i also know that if i don't build on these assignments
> in class they won't continue to do them. it's too early to tell if
> there will be any meaningful change in their use of the web page and
> its value.
> _____________________
> Paul Miesing
> http://www.albany.edu/~pm157

Paul Miesing commented on my posting of Oct. 20 in which I
described how I have students go to the web to update case studies
which often seem a year or several years out of date. Paul wrote:

> I take exception to this internet use of cases developed for
> another pedagogy. I've always been reluctant to have students update
> traditional cases because they should be self-contained. Getting
> additional information might test important skills but is not the
> but is not the intended purpose of the decision in the case.

Well well well. I don't see what the problem is in mixing pedagogies. It
doesn't violate my academic religion. I really think that MULTI-media
can allow a mix of non-computer and computer technologies. I also
don't see why having students use data beyond the case is a problem.
My assignment is a voluntary one for extra credit. However, I have
ended up with most students coming in with printouts of their web
updates of the day's case. These not only help them out with the "skill"
of using web browsers and other resources but make the case more
exciting and alive in our discussion. It very typical for instructors' manuals
to have updates in them. Do you think that is a mistake too? I find
that many foreign and minority students find that bringing in an update to
discuss is a more comfortable way into the discussion for them. It has
helped me secure universal participation in our class-wide case discussions.
Also, I don't see why it would be a problem to discuss something
beyond "the decision" that the case-writer might have focused on in
crafting the case.
Charlie Wankel
mg-ed-dv netmaster