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  • 1.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 11-27-1997 17:45
    >Why are so many HRM-people using "competence" instead of the well known
    >concepts such as skills and capabilities ?
    >Who posts a coherent vocabulary ?

    Because they live in their own world, quite remote from business problems.

    ========================
    Roland Deiser
    Visiting Professor
    Marshall School of Business
    University of Southern California

    Change Associates
    Consulting Group

    Private Office:
    1040 Somera Road
    Los Angeles, CA 90077
    Tel (310) 471-5831
    Fax (310) 471-9241
    Email rdeiser@sba.usc.edu


  • 2.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 11-27-1997 09:58
    Why are so many HRM-people using "competence" instead of the well known concepts such as skills and capabilities ?
    Who posts a coherent vocabulary ?


  • 3.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 11-28-1997 00:04
    Aimee,

    It depends on whether or not you are talking about the traditional view
    of competence (ie, skills and capability) or the more OD centred view of
    competency (that is, skills and knowledge to perform a task, skills and
    knowledge to manage all of the little things that go to make up that
    task, skills and knowledge to manage the contingencies relevant to the
    function in which that task is carried out, and skills and knowledge to
    perform that task in the context or environment in which the function is
    found).

    Competence, as traditionally viewed, implies a training/education input
    into one's capability whereas competency is based on what the
    organisation needs to achieve its goals and objectives. Furthermore,
    competency can be gained from anywhere - training, education, volunteer
    work, past jobs, observation, reading etc. etc. while competence is
    often only thought of as being 'given' through training and education.

    Capability, by definition, is something assessed as a future application
    of skills and knowledge whereas competency is only ever really assessed
    through the actual application - ie, on the job. As a consequence,
    competence assumes one can do the particular task (through the gaining
    of skills and implied capability) while competency is only recognised
    through an actual demonstration of the skills and knowledge in a real
    work environment (ie, simulator) or on the job under realistic working
    conditions (ie, not a simulated workplace but a real one with real
    customers and real workmates).

    To this end, competence has an effect on the wider organisational needs
    by implication only - the simple possession of skills and capability to
    apply these skills (even when rigorously assessed during or as a result
    of certain training and education) are not sufficient to achieve
    organisational goals through the broader HR avenues (appraisal,
    recruitment, succession, ongoing development, workplace agreements,
    special projects etc.). On the other hand, skills and knowledge (as
    competencies) that are actually applied (and assessed as being applied)
    will help the organisation achieve its goals because the competencies
    are written against the organisational needs, while competence is
    generally only written against training needs.

    Did this help or did it muddy the waters more?

    PHIL RUTHERFORD
    robnphil@ozemail.com.au






    aime heene wrote:
    >
    > Why are so many HRM-people using "competence" instead of the well known concepts such as skills and capabilities ?
    > Who posts a coherent vocabulary ?


  • 4.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 12-01-1997 09:06
    > >Why are so many HRM-people using "competence" instead of the well known
    > >concepts such as skills and capabilities ?

    > Because they live in their own world, quite remote from business
    problems.

    I think it's more likely because they are using the language that the
    "business" people are using. Skills and capabilities are seen as the tools
    of HR, while competence is seen as a broader business term, much written
    about by high-dollar consultants.

    Emily Schultheiss
    Why settle for surviving...when you could be thriving?


  • 5.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 12-01-1997 09:40
    Hi! I'm a new subscriber to the list, and also exist in the 'real world'.
    'Core competency' has an organizational slant above and beyond individual or
    group-based skills and capabilties, and reflects what an organization does
    best. It acknowledges the reality of competition--both in terms of
    competition between organizations and the consumer's right to make
    comparative judgments among product and service offers, and offerers.
    What's most important is distinguishing between an organization's primary
    activity and its core competency or competencies. If they're not in sync,
    the organization is in trouble. Looking forward to more discussions like
    these! regards, Nora Carrol, president, The First Forward Institute, Inc.

    Visit The First Forward Institute at http://www.laser.net/ffi
    ----------
    > From: steinhau@CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU
    > To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    > Subject: Re: SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE
    > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:25:45 EST
    >
    >Competence (or competency) is also the term used in education. By the way,
    >I know many HR people who are certainly in the real world and are very
    >involved in business problems, such as recruiting qualified personnel in
    >high-demand fields, helping people who have been "down-sized" due to
    >business shifting overseas, helping to improve the bottom line, etc.
    >Carol Steinhaus, IPFW
    >


  • 6.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 12-01-1997 11:26
    Competence (or competency) is also the term used in education. By the way,
    I know many HR people who are certainly in the real world and are very
    involved in business problems, such as recruiting qualified personnel in
    high-demand fields, helping people who have been "down-sized" due to
    business shifting overseas, helping to improve the bottom line, etc.
    Carol Steinhaus, IPFW


  • 7.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 12-01-1997 12:10
    Response to a recent post:

    "Competence (or competency) is also the term used in education. By the
    way,
    I know many HR people who are certainly in the real world and are very
    involved in business problems, such as recruiting qualified personnel in
    high-demand fields, helping people who have been "down-sized" due to
    business shifting overseas, helping to improve the bottom line, etc.
    Carol Steinhaus, IPFW"


    I recently attended a conference that focused on changing the
    traditional HR model to a business partner model. Several hundred HR
    professionals who attended the conference are in various stages of
    reshaping their identities to connect with and serve their clients in
    direct alignment with the objectives of the business. Obviously, there's
    a long road ahead. Do you have any suggestions for HR professionals?

    Ted Witherell
    witherell.ted@mgh.harvard.edu


  • 8.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 12-01-1997 17:04
    Hi,

    I am a consultant to many national/international bodies and
    organisations. I have worked at policy level in several countries and
    would consider myself fairly well on top of what is happening in the
    world of competencies and their assessment.

    To answer the question "Do you have any suggestions for HR
    professionals?" I would simply say "Go back to basics!"

    For many years the HR branch, and especially the HRD side of HR, has
    swung away from the needs of the organisation (ie, to achieve its
    business goals and objectives and return a fair dollar for shareholder
    investment) and concentrated on only specific areas - usually those than
    can bring the quickest and most positive return to the HR people.

    "Get runs on the board" is the catch-cry of most new HR staff who
    provide the most brilliant training and education opportunities but
    quite often at the expense of taking a divergent path to that taken at
    the highest level of the organisation.

    The bottom line is that the competencies (or, yes, the skills and
    capabilities) of all (rpt ALL) staff within the organisation have to be
    aimed only at one point - meeting the higher needs of the organisation.
    In other words its goals and objectives - not this year's objectives, or
    even next, but those 5-10 years out into the future.

    I believe that in their heart every HR person has this aim in mind.
    However, the 'how' hasn't always been understood. We can't do it using
    the age old paradigms of Training Needs Analyses (because, let's be
    honest, how many people know exactly what training they or others need
    at any given time?) or DACUM type research. It must be started with a
    blank sheet and, on paper at least, the organisation must be re-defined.
    And that can only happen from the top down.

    If I was going to give one tip it would be "Ask the organisation what it
    needs to meet its goals, not the people because in the main they won't
    know".

    Have fun.

    PHIL RUTHERFORD
    robnphil@ozemail.com.au





    Witherell, Ted wrote:
    >
    > Response to a recent post:
    >
    > "Competence (or competency) is also the term used in education. By the .......
    >
    > I recently attended a conference that focused on changing the
    > traditional HR model to a business partner model. Several hundred HR
    > professionals who attended the conference are in various stages of
    > reshaping their identities to connect with and serve their clients in
    > direct alignment with the objectives of the business. Obviously, there's
    > a long road ahead. Do you have any suggestions for HR professionals?
    >
    > Ted Witherell
    > witherell.ted@mgh.harvard.edu


  • 9.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 12-01-1997 17:18
    Carol Steinhaus <steinhau@CVAX.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU> wrote:

    (Hello Carol)

    >>... I know many HR people who are certainly in the real world and are
    very involved in business problems, such as recruiting qualified personnel
    in high-demand fields, helping people who have been "down-sized" due to
    business shifting overseas, helping to improve the bottom line, etc...<<

    If HR wants to be partner in solving business problems, then HR must take
    risks and try new approaches to solving old problems. Often we are afraid
    to try something new and risk a failure so we stay with the old method as
    if that could never be a mistake. One of our clients tried a new employee
    selection method, see Pilot Study Results below, when they could have used
    the standard HR excuse "But our employee turnover rate is no worse than the
    industry average." Had the client not tried the new method, i.e., risk a
    failure, they would not have learned that there really is a better way
    while achieving great success.

    Bob

    +----------------------------------------------------+
    | KNOWledge is POWER, self-KNOWledge is emPOWERing |
    +---------------------------+------------------------+
    | Robert F. Gately, PE, MBA | gately@compuserve.com |
    +---------------------------+------------------------+
    | GATELY CONSULTING (508) 473-0955 |
    | 115 Dutcher Street Fax (508) 634-0670 |
    | Hopedale, MA 01747-1006 Toll Free (800) 478-8117 |
    +----------------------------------------------------+
    | http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/gately/ |
    +----------------------------------------------------+

    Pilot Study Results
    =====================================================

    The Company
    ===========

    - Financial Services & Insurance
    - National and International Offices
    - 15,000+ employees worldwide
    - 8 Divisions in the US

    The Before Condition (the Ailment)
    ====================

    - The company-wide employee turnover rate was 34% the preceding year
    - The company-wide sales averaged 101% of sales quota

    The After Condition (the Cure)
    ===================

    - The method was piloted in 1 of the 8 US Divisions
    - Division's employee turnover rate was reduced to 19% after 6 months
    - New salespeople who scored 85% or higher averaged 916% of sales quota
    - New salespeople who scored 84% or lower averaged 187% of sales quota
    - The method is now being implemented across the other 7 US Divisions

    ---------------------------- the end


  • 10.  SKILLS, CAPABILITIES AND COMPETENCE

    Posted 12-02-1997 14:11
    At 09:57 AM 11/27/97 +-100, you wrote:
    >Why are so many HRM-people using "competence" instead of the well known
    concepts such as skills and capabilities ?
    >Who posts a coherent vocabulary ?

    Because a competence or a competencIE sounds ever so much more impressive
    and mysterious.

    Frank Bell Internet:
    Project Leader fbell@nonamebbs.com
    Amtrak
    National Training and
    Conference Center
    110 S. French St.--Ste 200
    Wilmington, Del. 19801

    http://members.aol.com/frankwbell