Discussion: View Thread

Wendy L Corfield <Wendy.L.Corfield@MAINROADS.QLD.GOV.AU>
> So in large public sector organisations, do you think its the case that change is fragmented and incremental? Change that can only occur at the fringe? Can this change be better managed? Are the entrenched historical values, past alliances, and political structures too strong in public sector organisations to support OD approaches that require a "radical" paradigm shift? In other words, is it possible for public sector organisations to REALLY change?

Carter replies:
You cover a lot of ground in your e-mail -- and sound very frustrated. I
pose the following response, not at all to minimize your concerns or
your judgment, but to try help in one of the few ways that someone can
in an on-line discussion group, that is, by offering key questions,
other points of view, specific advice, etc.

It'd be comforting, probably, to hear that public sector organizations
are indeed stuck -- and maybe they are. I don't know. I wonder how many
of us really know? But maybe the best this group can do for you (other
than a world-wide study on public sector organizations, their traits and
trends) is to help you examine your assumptions. I don't know, but let's
try ...

Are you sure that your expectations of the organization are realistic?
How do you know that the organization really needs to embrace
self-managed teams, needs better leadership, etc? I know that when I was
deep in graduate studies, I was very frustrated that more organizations
weren't evolving to "self-managed teams" in the "New Paradigm", in the
"New Millennium". My head and heart were full of exciting, humanistic,
visionary changes I wanted to see everywhere. I was not realistic -- and
I think that many practitioners and writers today aren't realistic
either.

We practitioners and writers continually assert that most change efforts
fail, then we lament about poor leadership, lack of courage, etc. Yet
few people are asking if these change efforts fail because we're
expecting too much and/or too fast -- and we're basing our expectations
more on our own personal desires than real organizational needs.
(Thierry Pauchant is one of few people who are questioning the reality
of organizational change efforts. Eccles and Nohria do a good job, too,
in "Beyond the Hype".)

Again, I'm not an expert on public sector organizations. But, over time,
one wonders if that many executives and organizations in the world are
really all that screwed up -- or are we practitioners part of the
"problem"?

Kind regards.

========================================================================
- FREE MANAGEMENT LIBRARY at http://www.mapnp.org/library/topics.htm
- Authenticity Consulting for organization and management development:
- - - Call 612-536-9984
- Show clients, members and learners how to coach and train each other:
- - - See Leaders Circles at http://www.leaderscircles.org
- Carter McNamara, MBA, PhD, Minneapolis, MN; email: mcnam007@tc.umn.edu
========================================================================

I would follow up on Carter's question with a general question to the list:
Have you seen examples in the companies you have worked with of
"self-directed work teams" that actually worked? My personal experience in
both the public sector (12 years) and private sector (5 years) has been
that "self-directed" most frequently turns into "no-direction". If you
have seen functioning examples:

1) What do you feel were the cultural conditions existing within the
company that encouraged/supported that type of team activity?
2) What was the caliber of people on the work teams and how does that
impact the effectiveness of the team?
3) Did "natural leaders" emerge on the teams and did the same leader remain
in effect for the life of the team?
4) What type of empowerment activity was required on the part of management
to really allow those teams to work?


Steve

=================================
PRAGMATEK Consulting Group, Ltd.
Web: www.PRAGMATEK.com
Email: Steve.Harper@pragmatek.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path
they have chosen, few in pursuit of the goal."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Carter McNamara [SMTP:mcnam007@TC.UMN.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 10:39 AM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: public sector organizations -- and/or our expectations?

Wendy L Corfield <Wendy.L.Corfield@MAINROADS.QLD.GOV.AU>
> So in large public sector organisations, do you think its the case that
change is fragmented and incremental? Change that can only occur at the
fringe? Can this change be better managed? Are the entrenched historical
values, past alliances, and political structures too strong in public
sector organisations to support OD approaches that require a "radical"
paradigm shift? In other words, is it possible for public sector
organisations to REALLY change?

Carter replies:
You cover a lot of ground in your e-mail -- and sound very frustrated. I
pose the following response, not at all to minimize your concerns or
your judgment, but to try help in one of the few ways that someone can
in an on-line discussion group, that is, by offering key questions,
other points of view, specific advice, etc.

It'd be comforting, probably, to hear that public sector organizations
are indeed stuck -- and maybe they are. I don't know. I wonder how many
of us really know? But maybe the best this group can do for you (other
than a world-wide study on public sector organizations, their traits and
trends) is to help you examine your assumptions. I don't know, but let's
try ...

Are you sure that your expectations of the organization are realistic?
How do you know that the organization really needs to embrace
self-managed teams, needs better leadership, etc? I know that when I was
deep in graduate studies, I was very frustrated that more organizations
weren't evolving to "self-managed teams" in the "New Paradigm", in the
"New Millennium". My head and heart were full of exciting, humanistic,
visionary changes I wanted to see everywhere. I was not realistic -- and
I think that many practitioners and writers today aren't realistic
either.

We practitioners and writers continually assert that most change efforts
fail, then we lament about poor leadership, lack of courage, etc. Yet
few people are asking if these change efforts fail because we're
expecting too much and/or too fast -- and we're basing our expectations
more on our own personal desires than real organizational needs.
(Thierry Pauchant is one of few people who are questioning the reality
of organizational change efforts. Eccles and Nohria do a good job, too,
in "Beyond the Hype".)

Again, I'm not an expert on public sector organizations. But, over time,
one wonders if that many executives and organizations in the world are
really all that screwed up -- or are we practitioners part of the
"problem"?

Kind regards.

========================================================================
- FREE MANAGEMENT LIBRARY at http://www.mapnp.org/library/topics.htm
- Authenticity Consulting for organization and management development:
- - - Call 612-536-9984
- Show clients, members and learners how to coach and train each other:
- - - See Leaders Circles at http://www.leaderscircles.org
- Carter McNamara, MBA, PhD, Minneapolis, MN; email: mcnam007@tc.umn.edu
========================================================================

Since I am working on my dissertation on empowerment of self managed teams
(building upon the terrific research in this area by Dr. Bradley Kirkman) I
am very interested in any discussions/replies in this thread!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Harper" <steve.harper@PRAGMATEK.COM>
To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: public sector organizations -- and/or our expectations?


> I would follow up on Carter's question with a general question to the
list:
> Have you seen examples in the companies you have worked with of
> "self-directed work teams" that actually worked? My personal experience
in
> both the public sector (12 years) and private sector (5 years) has been
> that "self-directed" most frequently turns into "no-direction". If you
> have seen functioning examples:
>
> 1) What do you feel were the cultural conditions existing within the
> company that encouraged/supported that type of team activity?
> 2) What was the caliber of people on the work teams and how does that
> impact the effectiveness of the team?
> 3) Did "natural leaders" emerge on the teams and did the same leader
remain
> in effect for the life of the team?
> 4) What type of empowerment activity was required on the part of
management
> to really allow those teams to work?
>
>
> Steve
>
> =================================
> PRAGMATEK Consulting Group, Ltd.
> Web: www.PRAGMATEK.com
> Email: Steve.Harper@pragmatek.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> "Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path
> they have chosen, few in pursuit of the goal."
> -- Friedrich Nietzsche
> ================================
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carter McNamara [SMTP:mcnam007@TC.UMN.EDU]
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 10:39 AM
> To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Subject: public sector organizations -- and/or our expectations?
>
> Wendy L Corfield <Wendy.L.Corfield@MAINROADS.QLD.GOV.AU>
> > So in large public sector organisations, do you think its the case that
> change is fragmented and incremental? Change that can only occur at the
> fringe? Can this change be better managed? Are the entrenched historical
> values, past alliances, and political structures too strong in public
> sector organisations to support OD approaches that require a "radical"
> paradigm shift? In other words, is it possible for public sector
> organisations to REALLY change?
>
> Carter replies:
> You cover a lot of ground in your e-mail -- and sound very frustrated. I
> pose the following response, not at all to minimize your concerns or
> your judgment, but to try help in one of the few ways that someone can
> in an on-line discussion group, that is, by offering key questions,
> other points of view, specific advice, etc.
>
> It'd be comforting, probably, to hear that public sector organizations
> are indeed stuck -- and maybe they are. I don't know. I wonder how many
> of us really know? But maybe the best this group can do for you (other
> than a world-wide study on public sector organizations, their traits and
> trends) is to help you examine your assumptions. I don't know, but let's
> try ...
>
> Are you sure that your expectations of the organization are realistic?
> How do you know that the organization really needs to embrace
> self-managed teams, needs better leadership, etc? I know that when I was
> deep in graduate studies, I was very frustrated that more organizations
> weren't evolving to "self-managed teams" in the "New Paradigm", in the
> "New Millennium". My head and heart were full of exciting, humanistic,
> visionary changes I wanted to see everywhere. I was not realistic -- and
> I think that many practitioners and writers today aren't realistic
> either.
>
> We practitioners and writers continually assert that most change efforts
> fail, then we lament about poor leadership, lack of courage, etc. Yet
> few people are asking if these change efforts fail because we're
> expecting too much and/or too fast -- and we're basing our expectations
> more on our own personal desires than real organizational needs.
> (Thierry Pauchant is one of few people who are questioning the reality
> of organizational change efforts. Eccles and Nohria do a good job, too,
> in "Beyond the Hype".)
>
> Again, I'm not an expert on public sector organizations. But, over time,
> one wonders if that many executives and organizations in the world are
> really all that screwed up -- or are we practitioners part of the
> "problem"?
>
> Kind regards.
>
> =========================================================================
> - FREE MANAGEMENT LIBRARY at http://www.mapnp.org/library/topics.htm
> - Authenticity Consulting for organization and management development:
> - - - Call 612-536-9984
> - Show clients, members and learners how to coach and train each other:
> - - - See Leaders Circles at http://www.leaderscircles.org
> - Carter McNamara, MBA, PhD, Minneapolis, MN; email: mcnam007@tc.umn.edu
> =========================================================================
>

I think it is possible for a high-level person to negatively change a
culture, but positively changing one is much more difficult. I experienced
this in a previous job where a new director was brought in who believed in
intimidation as the means to personal success. During the 24 months he was
in control, people learned to keep their heads down and not volunteer any
new ideas.

Steve

=================================
PRAGMATEK Consulting Group, Ltd.
Web: www.PRAGMATEK.com
Email: Steve.Harper@pragmatek.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path
they have chosen, few in pursuit of the goal."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Seel [SMTP:richard@RICHARD-SEEL.DEMON.CO.UK]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 4:16 PM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: public sector organizations -- and/or ourexpectations?

In message

On 21 Feb 00, at 23:38, Steve Harper wrote:

> I think it is possible for a high-level person to negatively change a
> culture, but positively changing one is much more difficult.

I think it is quite possible for high-level people to change culture,
but I also believe the conditions and pre-requisites need to be in
place. It would be interesting to identify just what those conditions
would be.


Visit the work911.com supersite at http://www.work911.com
for work related articles, or to find almost anything including
book reviews and suggestions, discussion lists and more.

To Steve Harper,
A few years ago, the Dow Corning Corporation was reeling from losing a major
trial on breast implants, the CEO and the president had been forced out, and
the rank and file was ready to jump ship.

Now, this was a company where everyone acted as if they were God, wore three
piece suits and never passed bad news upwards for fear of getting fired from
bringing up negative news.

The President of the European Division was named CEO. The first day there,
he walked into the lunchroom in Levi's, cowboy boots, and a sweater. Within
a week, he had passed the word that this was the uniform of the day to
everyone and had held closed television conferences everyone could see of
the meetings discussing the companies problems and why they had occurred.

Within a month, the company had become a more open organization with very
high morale, all working like beavers to overcome the companies problems.

I call that a high level person changing the culture very quickly in a very
positive way.
Dick Montgomery
20th Century Cooperative

Email us if you would like to see
our monthly I.T. business-related
executive newsletter.

"Our mission is to increase your sales."
http://www.chemmgrs.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Bacal" <rbacal@ESCAPE.CA>
To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: public sector organizations -- and/or our expectations?


> On 21 Feb 00, at 23:38, Steve Harper wrote:
>
> > I think it is possible for a high-level person to negatively change a
> > culture, but positively changing one is much more difficult.
>
> I think it is quite possible for high-level people to change culture,
> but I also believe the conditions and pre-requisites need to be in
> place. It would be interesting to identify just what those conditions
> would be.

To Dick Montgomery:

Thanks for the excellent example. It is good to see that positive cultural
change can be brought in quickly at the top level. Unfortunately my
experience has tended to be with organizations where this was not the case.

P.S. To comply with an earlier posting request, by way of introduction: My
name is Steve Harper and I work for a technology consulting company helping
companies select and implement Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) systems.
I joined this listserv because I have recently become much more interested
in the human side of technological change -- i.e. how should we as
consultants help companies manage and absorb the impacts of the
technologies we implement. In my work with a variety of organizations, my
experience has been that senior managers are rarely able to figure out how
to help their people accept the rapid changes (beyond the obvious
functional training). Because of this, I would like to pose the following
questions to the list:

1) In times of rapid technological change, what, if anything, can external
people (consultants) do to help organizations prepare for and absorb that
change? (I am interested in suggestions that go beyond the obvious (but
sometimes overlooked) need for technical/functional training.)

2) What types of education and training can future managers (both technical
and non-technical) be provided that would help in this process? (I write
this question knowing full well that I do not know the literature on this
topic very well. Bibliographic suggestions are most welcome.)

3) Is there/should there be a role for "change management" consultants
(OD?) in technical consulting organizations (do the Big Five employ such
people?) or are the fields considered too disparate to ever come together
in a single consulting engagement?

I am interested in the academic, practitioner, and consulting perspectives
on these questions. Replies will be most welcome.

Steve

=================================
PRAGMATEK Consulting Group, Ltd.
Web: www.PRAGMATEK.com
Email: Steve.Harper@pragmatek.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path
they have chosen, few in pursuit of the goal."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Montgomery [SMTP:rmonty@CHEMMGRS.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 9:13 PM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: public sector organizations -- and/or our expectations?

<< File: ATT00009.txt; charset = Windows-1252 >>

I would be interested in receiving the newsletter

tanx
joshua
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Montgomery <rmonty@CHEMMGRS.COM>
To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: public sector organizations -- and/or our expectations?


> To Steve Harper,
> A few years ago, the Dow Corning Corporation was reeling from losing a
major
> trial on breast implants, the CEO and the president had been forced out,
and
> the rank and file was ready to jump ship.
>
> Now, this was a company where everyone acted as if they were God, wore
three
> piece suits and never passed bad news upwards for fear of getting fired
from
> bringing up negative news.
>
> The President of the European Division was named CEO. The first day there,
> he walked into the lunchroom in Levi's, cowboy boots, and a sweater.
Within
> a week, he had passed the word that this was the uniform of the day to
> everyone and had held closed television conferences everyone could see of
> the meetings discussing the companies problems and why they had occurred.
>
> Within a month, the company had become a more open organization with very
> high morale, all working like beavers to overcome the companies problems.
>
> I call that a high level person changing the culture very quickly in a
very
> positive way.
> Dick Montgomery
> 20th Century Cooperative
>
> Email us if you would like to see
> our monthly I.T. business-related
> executive newsletter.
>
> "Our mission is to increase your sales."
> http://www.chemmgrs.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Bacal" <rbacal@ESCAPE.CA>
> To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 11:58 PM
> Subject: Re: public sector organizations -- and/or our expectations?
>
>
> > On 21 Feb 00, at 23:38, Steve Harper wrote:
> >
> > > I think it is possible for a high-level person to negatively change a
> > > culture, but positively changing one is much more difficult.
> >
> > I think it is quite possible for high-level people to change culture,
> > but I also believe the conditions and pre-requisites need to be in
> > place. It would be interesting to identify just what those conditions
> > would be.
>