Discussion: View Thread

On 27 May 98 at 21:42, Tim Edlund wrote:

Sorry - but the
> fair use doctrine does apply. Some use is o.k., particularly on the spur
> of the moment for non-profit educational use.

I'm sorry, Tim, but I'd like to clarify. Use for educational
purposes refers to use in educational institutions, duly certified
AND in a non-profit context. It does not permit me to copy a
newspaper article and give a copy to each student in my seminar, It
may allow a 6th grade teacher to do so, or a university professor,
although things are changing a bit. (I think that's what you said
later in the message?)

Fair use is also determined by the extend of the quote or use.
Partial quotes are almost always ok for a number of purposes,
including review, critique, etc. Entire articles do not fall under
this in any medium.

As an aside, email messages are also covered by copyright laws, which
means one cannot legally redistribute this message to other lists
without permission. The collective body of messages on this list is
ALSO copyrighted as a body, although most list owners don't exercise
that right. Most people don't mind but again, if one wants to play by
the rules it is always appropriate to ask.


> On Wed, 27 May 1998, Nargis Merchant wrote:
>
> > For what its worth, articles in newspaper are not copywright, as far as
> > I know. Ohterwise a large number of us would be in breach of sharing
> > newspaper articles.

I think this is indicative of the degree to which this issue is
misunderstood, and why I posted publicly.
>
> If you reproduce the entire article, or most of it, you probably are.
> Most papers won't go after anyone who does it not for profit. We have to
> use our own best judgment, and consider what it is we're trying to do. - -

In most cases publishers aren't going to take legal action, although
they WILL contact offenders. I have been involved in several such
cases.

I think the risks are low as an instructor in a
> non-profit institution. Some of those on the net are in profit-making
> organizations (at least they hope they are). Their risk profile is rather
> different, because their aims are different.

I imagine in all cases it is appropriate to ask permission, but I
agree, at least at the moment. Copyright laws are changing, and there
is a move in Canada to limit further fair use in educational
contexts, a step I am against.

Robert Bacal, Inst.For Cooperative Communication, rbacal@escape.ca
NOW SHIPPING Conflict Prevention In The Workplace - Using Cooperative Communication
Samples and info at http://www.escape.ca/~rbacal/prevent.htm
Visit our Resource Centre for articles on mgmt.,training,communication, and defusing hostility
at http://www.escape.ca/~rbacal (204) 888-9290

I've been searching around for references on this issue, so people
don't have to believe me. Apart from the legislation, which is
available on line including some dizzifying language, here is a great
site:

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

which describes 10 myths regarding copyright. Of particular note,
here is a brief (and legal, grin) excerpt.

"The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things
such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research
and education about copyrighted works without the
permission of the author....Are you reproducing an article from the New York Times
because you needed to in order to criticise the quality of the New York
Times, or because you couldn't find time to write your own story, or
didn't want your readers to have to pay for the New York Times web
site? The first is probably fair use, the others
probably aren't."

There is also a section on usenet internet posts (yes, they are
copyrighted) and revealing/using private email messages in public
forums (yes they are protected by copyright, but it isn't likely
damages would be awarded due to lack of commercial value).


Robert Bacal, Inst.For Cooperative Communication, rbacal@escape.ca
NOW SHIPPING Conflict Prevention In The Workplace - Using Cooperative Communication
Samples and info at http://www.escape.ca/~rbacal/prevent.htm
Visit our Resource Centre for articles on mgmt.,training,communication, and defusing hostility
at http://www.escape.ca/~rbacal (204) 888-9290

Sorry all, but this is not the case. Check your own newspaper; note that
most articles are attributed to the source, such as Associated Press or
Reuters or Ourpaper Staff. Note too that the outside sources are paid in
general.

When I arrived in Baltimore about 12 years ago, I soon began doing some of
my research using the Baltimore Sun. The word then was that the Sun was
one of the last NOT to be copyrighted, except of course for the stuff
they got from others. At any rate, when it came down to using the stuff,
in articles or cases, it turns out that for a number of years the Sun has
joined all the other newspapers in being copyrightedf. Sorry - but the
fair use doctrine does apply. Some use is o.k., particularly on the spur
of the moment for non-profit educational use.

On Wed, 27 May 1998, Nargis Merchant wrote:

> For what its worth, articles in newspaper are not copywright, as far as
> I know. Ohterwise a large number of us would be in breach of sharing
> newspaper articles.

If you reproduce the entire article, or most of it, you probably are.
Most papers won't go after anyone who does it not for profit. We have to
use our own best judgment, and consider what it is we're trying to do. - -

I haven't taken out professional liability insurance, even though the
liability part of homeowners' insurance does not protect against liability
from one's occupation. I think the risks are low as an instructor in a
non-profit institution. Some of those on the net are in profit-making
organizations (at least they hope they are). Their risk profile is rather
different, because their aims are different.

Tim Edlund, Morgan State Univ.

Thank you Tim Edlund for these remarks because you have resolved the
issue when you stated, "Some use is o.k., particularly on the spur
of the moment for non-profit educational use." That description sure fits
the listserv, so maybe the issue can be put to bed.
Regards,
Dick
Dick Dailey
Department of Management
University of Montana
Missoula, MT 59812-1216 BIG SKY COUNTRY!!
406 243 6644/Voice-Office
406 549 6876/Voice-Home Office
406 243 2086/Fax
rtd@selway.umt.edu

As the listmaster of Mg-Ed-Dv let me state that regardless of
copyright, I don't invite people to post entire articles written
by third parties to the list. Excerpts are fine, when limited
and pertinent and properly attributed. Giving URLs of documents
is the current "way to go". Although I realize that a few people
find this unusable, the vast (and growing) majority of us find
it easy to handle. Many of us find it preferable.

This is an unmoderated list. That is, I let you post whatever and
if it is off-topic or somehow otherwise regrettable I let you, and sometimes
the list know, to avoid doing that again. I can FILTER certain types
of postings and posters, or subject their postings to SCREENing, and
I can DELETE list abusers. Generally things have been going well
on MG-ED-DV.

Hundreds of you are still lurkers. You are invited to join our discussions
and I hope YOU will do so with really important and interesting ideas.
Share the exercises and assignments that you came up with that really
work. We'll try to give you feedback on similar things we're doing
and ideas on how you might do them better.

Cybercollegially,
Charlie Wankel
wankel@stjohns.edu