Discussion: View Thread

Communications is necessary but not sufficient.

Good, thus promotable, employees excel at communications but not all
good communicators excel at administration, let alone management let
alone leadership.

The next need is competency in systems; systems thinking,
identification, design/architecting, engineering, adapting and learning.
This need has become critical in the era of hypercompetition.

Knowing systems sets the stage for becoming a leader. All you have to
do is quit considering humans as resources, recognize that humans are
the sources of enthusiasm thus innovation and arrange to leverage
accordingly.

Because humans co-operate as second order, implicit differential systems
a person trained as a business administrator doesn't have a chance at
becoming a leader of people without a systems capability.
----------------
>
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:10:48 -0500
> From: "Fearon, David (Management)" <Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance
>
> Again, Ralph, if they do a much better job of helping
> their students learn to communicate, then why don't we?
> What are our barriers to that? Are they real and necessary
> to impart our subject, or encrusted bad habits and outmoded ways?
>
> I'll offer a horrendous speculation. Liberal arts colleges
> tend to be highly selective. I'll never forget the time
> a LA professor said in a meeting of college educators that
> his school got the "robust ducks", that all they had
> to do was "baste them" in four years and they were on
> to successful careers. Does this mean we in business schools
> are seeing the less advantaged? That was his point.
>
> David
>

Jack's message prompts this question. Who out there
has a course in system thinking in their undergraduate
(or graduate) program? We have one in our management
core for undergrads. Steven Cavaleri is its originator.

David



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:58 PM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] MG-ED-DV Digest - MBA's need N dimensions


Communications is necessary but not sufficient.

Good, thus promotable, employees excel at communications but not all
good communicators excel at administration, let alone management let
alone leadership.

The next need is competency in systems; systems thinking,
identification, design/architecting, engineering, adapting and learning.
This need has become critical in the era of hypercompetition.

Knowing systems sets the stage for becoming a leader. All you have to
do is quit considering humans as resources, recognize that humans are
the sources of enthusiasm thus innovation and arrange to leverage
accordingly.

Because humans co-operate as second order, implicit differential systems
a person trained as a business administrator doesn't have a chance at
becoming a leader of people without a systems capability.
----------------
>
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:10:48 -0500
> From: "Fearon, David (Management)" <Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance
>
> Again, Ralph, if they do a much better job of helping
> their students learn to communicate, then why don't we?
> What are our barriers to that? Are they real and necessary
> to impart our subject, or encrusted bad habits and outmoded ways?
>
> I'll offer a horrendous speculation. Liberal arts colleges
> tend to be highly selective. I'll never forget the time
> a LA professor said in a meeting of college educators that
> his school got the "robust ducks", that all they had
> to do was "baste them" in four years and they were on
> to successful careers. Does this mean we in business schools
> are seeing the less advantaged? That was his point.
>
> David
>

We here have a programme of Management Qualifications these qualifications
range from level III (Supervisory )through to level V (Senior Management
level) and are certificated through the Management Charter Initiative.

These are offered to Graduates and Employees in the working environment due
to the identification in skill gaps:-

* Graduates who don't have the hands on experience but have the
academia and need the experience to get employment
* Employees who don't have the cognitive skills or need to have to
qualification to prove they can or have done the job to a satisfactory level
to enable promotional activities to be trigged

These qualifications are based on generation of evidence set against the
Standards which are laid down by the Institute of Management and are
reviewed and changed every two years to comply with the economic
environments which affect business organisations ( small medium and large)

They help assist the management of change/behaviours/systems/resources by
project management .
Innovative approaches of the team
The standards deploy systems in an efficient way by utilising the total
quality management
Include all the legal requirements that are required in Health and
Safety/Human Resource and any other pre-eminent legal requirement subject to
the industry the individual is working in.
Communications
Partnerships with customers
Productivity outputs in a critical analysis
And of course Information Technologies where the use of project management
can be used for efficiency

Regards Iris


-----Original Message-----
From: Fearon, David (Management)
[SMTP:Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:30 PM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: MG-ED-DV Digest - MBA's
need N dimensions

Jack's message prompts this question. Who out there
has a course in system thinking in their
undergraduate
(or graduate) program? We have one in our
management
core for undergrads. Steven Cavaleri is its
originator.

David



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:58 PM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] MG-ED-DV Digest - MBA's need
N dimensions


Communications is necessary but not sufficient.

Good, thus promotable, employees excel at
communications but not all
good communicators excel at administration, let
alone management let
alone leadership.

The next need is competency in systems; systems
thinking,
identification, design/architecting, engineering,
adapting and learning.
This need has become critical in the era of
hypercompetition.

Knowing systems sets the stage for becoming a
leader. All you have to
do is quit considering humans as resources,
recognize that humans are
the sources of enthusiasm thus innovation and
arrange to leverage
accordingly.

Because humans co-operate as second order, implicit
differential systems
a person trained as a business administrator doesn't
have a chance at
becoming a leader of people without a systems
capability.
----------------
>
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:10:48 -0500
> From: "Fearon, David (Management)"
<Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay
to Performance
>
> Again, Ralph, if they do a much better job of
helping
> their students learn to communicate, then why
don't we?
> What are our barriers to that? Are they real and
necessary
> to impart our subject, or encrusted bad habits and
outmoded ways?
>
> I'll offer a horrendous speculation. Liberal arts
colleges
> tend to be highly selective. I'll never forget
the time
> a LA professor said in a meeting of college
educators that
> his school got the "robust ducks", that all they
had
> to do was "baste them" in four years and they were
on
> to successful careers. Does this mean we in
business schools
> are seeing the less advantaged? That was his
point.
>
> David
>

________________________________________________________________________
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Tel: +44 (0) 141 248 2700.
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It may contain legally privileged information. The contents are not to
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are requested to preserve this confidentiality and to advise the sender
immediately of any error in transmission.

This discussion on the importance of system thinking brings up what is
perhaps for me the central issue re: the direction of MBAs: is the MBA not
intended as a cross between training and education?

I hear the words "sacrilege!" echoing from all over the place at the mention
of training as a part of a graduate programme that lives squarely in the
realm of education. But here's the point: what good is teaching our students
about systems thinking if they can't afterwards find the heads or the tails
of the real, live system in which they work? In my experience, actual living
systems are much more fluid that the various cybernetics models we study in
class, often times with good reason. Developing systems thinking is
therefore useful but only if it leads to the ability to understand and
manage real living systems. And no, I don't believe that the ability to
apply systems thinking automatically happens as a result of understanding
the concepts.

Many MBAs already try hard to provide practical "training". Good. There
should be more of this. There are many good "thinkers" out there, along with
a good number of "doers", but there are surprisingly few who can build the
necessary bridges between theory and practice. MBA graduates should be able
to do that.

Moving in this direction, however, requires that universities work more and
more closely with industry to bring in experienced managers as faculty. Some
are already there, many others resist. Are we back on the arrogance issue?

J-M. Guillemette


-----Original Message-----
From: Fearon, David (Management) [mailto:Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:30 AM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] MG-ED-DV Digest - MBA's need N dimensions


Jack's message prompts this question. Who out there
has a course in system thinking in their undergraduate
(or graduate) program? We have one in our management
core for undergrads. Steven Cavaleri is its originator.

David



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:58 PM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] MG-ED-DV Digest - MBA's need N dimensions


Communications is necessary but not sufficient.

Good, thus promotable, employees excel at communications but not all
good communicators excel at administration, let alone management let
alone leadership.

The next need is competency in systems; systems thinking,
identification, design/architecting, engineering, adapting and learning.
This need has become critical in the era of hypercompetition.

Knowing systems sets the stage for becoming a leader. All you have to
do is quit considering humans as resources, recognize that humans are
the sources of enthusiasm thus innovation and arrange to leverage
accordingly.

Because humans co-operate as second order, implicit differential systems
a person trained as a business administrator doesn't have a chance at
becoming a leader of people without a systems capability.
----------------
>
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:10:48 -0500
> From: "Fearon, David (Management)" <Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance
>
> Again, Ralph, if they do a much better job of helping
> their students learn to communicate, then why don't we?
> What are our barriers to that? Are they real and necessary
> to impart our subject, or encrusted bad habits and outmoded ways?
>
> I'll offer a horrendous speculation. Liberal arts colleges
> tend to be highly selective. I'll never forget the time
> a LA professor said in a meeting of college educators that
> his school got the "robust ducks", that all they had
> to do was "baste them" in four years and they were on
> to successful careers. Does this mean we in business schools
> are seeing the less advantaged? That was his point.
>
> David
>

Dear David,
Here at Baldwin-Wallace College we have a MBA Program focused on Systems
Thinking. Peter Kelly is the Director of the Program and he can be reached
at pkelly@bw.edu. Professors Susan Kuznik (skuznik@bw.edu), Mary Pisnar
(mpisnar@bw.edu) and William Braun (wbraun@bw.edu) teach the first course in
the Systems Approach to Management which then permeates all the other 11
courses. I teach Organizational Behavior from a Systems Thinking
perspective.

Hope this helps.
Peace and Love,
Harry

******************************************************
Prof. Harry J. Bury, Ph.D.
Professor of Organizational Behavior and Systems Management
Baldwin-Wallace College
275 Eastland Road
Berea, Ohio 44017-2088
Office Phone: (440)826-2395
***********************************************************



-----Original Message-----
From: Fearon, David (Management) [mailto:Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:30 AM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] MG-ED-DV Digest - MBA's need N dimensions


Jack's message prompts this question. Who out there
has a course in system thinking in their undergraduate
(or graduate) program? We have one in our management
core for undergrads. Steven Cavaleri is its originator.

David



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Ring [mailto:jring@amug.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:58 PM
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Subject: Re: [MG-ED-DV] MG-ED-DV Digest - MBA's need N dimensions


Communications is necessary but not sufficient.

Good, thus promotable, employees excel at communications but not all
good communicators excel at administration, let alone management let
alone leadership.

The next need is competency in systems; systems thinking,
identification, design/architecting, engineering, adapting and learning.
This need has become critical in the era of hypercompetition.

Knowing systems sets the stage for becoming a leader. All you have to
do is quit considering humans as resources, recognize that humans are
the sources of enthusiasm thus innovation and arrange to leverage
accordingly.

Because humans co-operate as second order, implicit differential systems
a person trained as a business administrator doesn't have a chance at
becoming a leader of people without a systems capability.
----------------
>
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:10:48 -0500
> From: "Fearon, David (Management)" <Fearon@mail.ccsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Germany Set to Link Professors' Pay to Performance
>
> Again, Ralph, if they do a much better job of helping
> their students learn to communicate, then why don't we?
> What are our barriers to that? Are they real and necessary
> to impart our subject, or encrusted bad habits and outmoded ways?
>
> I'll offer a horrendous speculation. Liberal arts colleges
> tend to be highly selective. I'll never forget the time
> a LA professor said in a meeting of college educators that
> his school got the "robust ducks", that all they had
> to do was "baste them" in four years and they were on
> to successful careers. Does this mean we in business schools
> are seeing the less advantaged? That was his point.
>
> David
>