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I posted this message to another list, and I thought it might be of interest
as a topic of consideration here as well...

A few months ago, I was watching a TV show telling about the Top Gun pilot
training school. Because of a past life wherein I helped develop reliable
engines for all sorts of aircraft, I had an interest in the ability of the
aircraft to be agile and maneuverable.

But I believe that I have a much greater interest these days in
understanding how organizations can be more agile and maneuverable.
Sometimes I would even settle for knowing how to help them "stay in the air."

Anyway, an instructor made a comment that has stayed with me. And after I
share that comment with you, I would invite you to share ways in which you
do (or seek to do) this in your own spheres of interaction -- as
facilitators, mentors, leaders... It's something I strive for --
hopefully coming close to the mark now and again.

The instructor said:

"Our instructors are among the absolute best pilots in the entire world.
And even thought the students in this school are considered to be the best
of the best, our instructors can literally fly rings around the students.

If we're not careful, an instructor could humiliate and discourage a
student. The result usually is poor learning and disengagement.

Our challenge is to fly just beyond the edge of the student's capability --
continually stretching her or him to the next level. If we fly below them,
there is no learning. If we fly too far above the results are poor. The
skill is to know each student and to take them to their edges in an enabling
way.

It takes considerable time, but it's best way we know."


Warm regards,

John Dicus

--

John Dicus | CornerStone Consulting Associates
-- Bringing Systems To Life --
2761 Stiegler Road, Valley City, OH 44280
800-773-8017 | 330-725-2728 (2729 fax)
http://www.ourfuture.com | mailto:jdicus@ourfuture.com

Sounds like Lawrence Kohlberg's methods.

John Dicus wrote:

> I posted this message to another list, and I thought it might be of interest
> as a topic of consideration here as well...
>
> A few months ago, I was watching a TV show telling about the Top Gun pilot
> training school. Because of a past life wherein I helped develop reliable
> engines for all sorts of aircraft, I had an interest in the ability of the
> aircraft to be agile and maneuverable.
>
> But I believe that I have a much greater interest these days in
> understanding how organizations can be more agile and maneuverable.
> Sometimes I would even settle for knowing how to help them "stay in the air."
>
> Anyway, an instructor made a comment that has stayed with me. And after I
> share that comment with you, I would invite you to share ways in which you
> do (or seek to do) this in your own spheres of interaction -- as
> facilitators, mentors, leaders... It's something I strive for --
> hopefully coming close to the mark now and again.
>
> The instructor said:
>
> "Our instructors are among the absolute best pilots in the entire world.
> And even thought the students in this school are considered to be the best
> of the best, our instructors can literally fly rings around the students.
>
> If we're not careful, an instructor could humiliate and discourage a
> student. The result usually is poor learning and disengagement.
>
> Our challenge is to fly just beyond the edge of the student's capability --
> continually stretching her or him to the next level. If we fly below them,
> there is no learning. If we fly too far above the results are poor. The
> skill is to know each student and to take them to their edges in an enabling
> way.
>
> It takes considerable time, but it's best way we know."
>
> Warm regards,
>
> John Dicus
>
> --
>
> John Dicus | CornerStone Consulting Associates
> -- Bringing Systems To Life --
> 2761 Stiegler Road, Valley City, OH 44280
> 800-773-8017 | 330-725-2728 (2729 fax)
> http://www.ourfuture.com | mailto:jdicus@ourfuture.com

John,

While I am proud of my own accomplishments, I do not feel they have
anything to do with students in my classes. I often begin the first
class of a term by telling students that the LEAST IMPORTANT factor in
the class is what I have in my head. I do not function primarily as a
dispenser of information. I provide an opportunity for students to
decide for themselves how much they want to get.

I do not choose the role of motivator, especially since I believe only in
internal motivation. I provide a learning environment in which it is
safe to explore learning; I seek to do no more.

This is not to criticize those who like to challenge students! It's just
not the way I choose to teach.

Edryce Reynolds
Tacoma, Washington

On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:38:52 -0500 John Dicus <jdicus@OURFUTURE.COM>
writes:

>If we're not careful, an instructor could humiliate and discourage a
>student. The result usually is poor learning and disengagement.
>
>Our challenge is to fly just beyond the edge of the student's
>capability -- continually stretching her or him to the next level. If
we fly below
>them, there is no learning. If we fly too far above the results are
poor.
>The skill is to know each student and to take them to their edges in an
>enabling way.
>
>It takes considerable time, but it's best way we know."
>
>
>Warm regards,
>
>John Dicus
>
>--
>
>John Dicus | CornerStone Consulting Associates
>-- Bringing Systems To Life --
>2761 Stiegler Road, Valley City, OH 44280
>800-773-8017 | 330-725-2728 (2729 fax)
>http://www.ourfuture.com | mailto:jdicus@ourfuture.com
>

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Edryce,

For what it's worth, I agree with your method. It's one I try always to
utilize myself. I'm reminded of something that Dr. Deming is reported to
have said (and I paraphrase)... I only give two grades, "A" and "I", if the
students don't get it, it's my fault not theirs.
Like you, I have no intention of criticizing those who follow a different
path.

Ken Miller, Instructor of Management and Health Care Administration
School of Business
College of West Virginia
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and
live out the true meaning of its creed - we hold these
truths to be self-evident - that all men are created equal.
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.)
-----Original Message-----
From: Edryce Reynolds <edryce@JUNO.COM>
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Challenging At The Edge


>John,
>
>While I am proud of my own accomplishments, I do not feel they have
>anything to do with students in my classes. I often begin the first
>class of a term by telling students that the LEAST IMPORTANT factor in
>the class is what I have in my head. I do not function primarily as a
>dispenser of information. I provide an opportunity for students to
>decide for themselves how much they want to get.
>
>I do not choose the role of motivator, especially since I believe only in
>internal motivation. I provide a learning environment in which it is
>safe to explore learning; I seek to do no more.
>
>This is not to criticize those who like to challenge students! It's just
>not the way I choose to teach.
>
>Edryce Reynolds
>Tacoma, Washington
>
>On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:38:52 -0500 John Dicus <jdicus@OURFUTURE.COM>
>writes:
>
>>If we're not careful, an instructor could humiliate and discourage a
>>student. The result usually is poor learning and disengagement.
>>
>>Our challenge is to fly just beyond the edge of the student's
>>capability -- continually stretching her or him to the next level. If
>we fly below
>>them, there is no learning. If we fly too far above the results are
>poor.
>>The skill is to know each student and to take them to their edges in an
>>enabling way.
>>
>>It takes considerable time, but it's best way we know."
>>
>>
>>Warm regards,
>>
>>John Dicus
>>
>>--
>>
>>John Dicus | CornerStone Consulting Associates
>>-- Bringing Systems To Life --
>>2761 Stiegler Road, Valley City, OH 44280
>>800-773-8017 | 330-725-2728 (2729 fax)
>>http://www.ourfuture.com | mailto:jdicus@ourfuture.com
>>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Edryce wrote
< class of a term by telling students that the LEAST IMPORTANT factor in
the class is what I have in my head. I do not function primarily as a
dispenser of information. I provide an opportunity for students to
decide for themselves how much they want to get. ...
I provide a learning environment in which it is safe to explore learning;
I seek to do no more. ...>>


I must be missing something. The assumption here seems to be that all
that's in the instructor's head is simply a collection of facts. But don't
we hope that an instructor also presumably knows something -- in her/his
head -- about the process of teaching/learning? Doesn't an instructor
'provide an opportunity' and 'provide a learning environment' out of what
is 'in her/his head'? (And her/his heart, as well, I think!)

We face the same issues when we 'provide an opportunity' for people to
learn about management and leadership. We hope to do more than simply
transfer 'bits' of data from one brain to another. In order to get beyond
the pithy quote or interesting theory, in order for there to be -learning-
(i.e., creation of knowledge within someone), the data must be processed
somehow. Setting up that environment to permit or even foster that
processing seems an integral part of being an instructor.

Michael A
-- Michael Ayers
mailto:mbayers@mmm.com Voice (651) 733-5690 FAX (651) 737-7718
IT Educ & Perf Svcs 3M Center 224-2NE-02 PO Box 33224 St Paul MN
55133-3224
Sometimes the right question is, 'Are we asking the right question?'
Ideas contained in this note represent the author's opinions and
do not intentionally represent the positions of anyone else in this
galaxy.

Greetings to the list,

I have been lurking and enjoying the discussions for a bit, and I would like
to introduce myself and respond to the Top Gun instructor post.

I am a psychologist, trained at Harvard Medical School and in organizational
development in Boston MA. My research interests include ego development and
creativity in organizational settings and applications of technology to
adult education. I am especially interested in applying personality theory
to the design of learning procedures, customizing the material to match the
preferences of the learners. I currently work for Vista Associates in
Wayland MA, where we develop Web-based intranet software applications that
integrate private workspaces, course management and campus-wide information
sharing. Our clients include the business schools of MIT, Babson College,
and Cornell.

The notion of providing a just-challenging-enough goal for training is
nicely illustrated in the story of the pilot trainers in the "Challenging at
the Edge" post. It reminded me of the work of the Russian cognitive theorist
Len Vygotsky (1896-1934) who offers the notion of the Zone of Proximal
Development. This idea, mostly applied to childhood education, suggests
that learning occurs optimally when goals are placed within the reach of the
learner's intelligence and maturity, providing a kind of scaffolding to
structure the student's growth. Alan Bordow's comment on McLelland's Need
for Achievement theory provides a nice way to assess the personality
variables that contribute to the size of one individual's zone of proximal
development.

Here is a website I found with some more information about Vygotsky, for
those who might be interested.
http://snycorva.cortland.edu/~ANDERSMD/VYG/ZPD.HTML

Thanks for the stimulating dialogue.

Michael DiIanni, Psy.D.
http://www.vistainc.com
Vista Associates, Inc.
14 Adelaide Ave, Wayland, MA 01778
Voice: (508) 653-2490
Fax: (508) 653-2957
MichaelD@vistainc.com