Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  The Last Great ...

    Posted 02-03-1999 02:56
    Serious Question: IF (most) universities cut faculty, increase (virtual) class
    size, kill tenure, keep a few well-known full time professors to do the design
    work on the techno-archived virtual cyber web lectures, and then can them.
    THEN what happens to all the campus buildings (offices, classrooms, labs)? Are
    we to expect the real estate to sold off and the university take up residence
    in a PC Server?

    Other than curiosity, the reason I ask is that I see no evidence of shrinking
    real estate. On the other hand, I do monitor population demographics and note
    that the U.S. population turning 18 will increase every year until 2005. It
    MIGHT be adaptive to allow class size to increase SLIGHTLY until then (and
    afterwards shrink back?). Might not the demographic imperative be driving some
    of the changes in the last great job?
    --
    Prof. John L. Naman naman+@pitt.edu


  • 2.  The Last Great ...

    Posted 02-03-1999 04:31
    Are we about to see asset-strippers in academia? In reality, they've always
    been there - they're just getting more power.
    Many education authorities have forced schools in the UK to sell off playing
    fields (football & cricket pitches etc). This is usually developed for
    residential purposes.
    I'm not that familiar with US university sites - but the ones I do know
    occupy what would be prime real estate.
    I used to pay cynics no notice - now I've joined their ranks. Too many
    senior positions within education are held by those whose prime motivator is
    to 'turn a buck'. Apologies to those who are still motivated by the
    educational needs of our society ( a diminishing breed).
    Regards,
    Kevin Fields
    Lecturer: Tourism & Hospitality Management
    Birmingham College of Food, Tourism
    & Creative Studies
    Summer Row
    Birmingham B3 1JB

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    > [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of John L. Naman
    > Sent: 03 February 1999 07:56
    > To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    > Subject: Re: The Last Great ...
    >
    >
    > Serious Question: IF (most) universities cut faculty, increase
    > (virtual) class
    > size, kill tenure, keep a few well-known full time professors to
    > do the design
    > work on the techno-archived virtual cyber web lectures, and then can them.
    > THEN what happens to all the campus buildings (offices,
    > classrooms, labs)? Are
    > we to expect the real estate to sold off and the university take
    > up residence
    > in a PC Server?
    >
    > Other than curiosity, the reason I ask is that I see no evidence
    > of shrinking
    > real estate. On the other hand, I do monitor population
    > demographics and note
    > that the U.S. population turning 18 will increase every year
    > until 2005. It
    > MIGHT be adaptive to allow class size to increase SLIGHTLY until then (and
    > afterwards shrink back?). Might not the demographic imperative be
    > driving some
    > of the changes in the last great job?
    > --
    > Prof. John L. Naman naman+@pitt.edu
    >


  • 3.  The Last Great ...

    Posted 02-03-1999 07:32
    Again I respectfully disagree. I'm not sure "we" can
    afford our ivory towers, quadrangles and commons of this
    quickly fading millenium...

    Bruce

    On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:30:57 -0000 Kevin Fields
    <k.fields@BCFTCS.AC.UK> wrote:

    > Are we about to see asset-strippers in academia? In reality, they've always
    > been there - they're just getting more power.
    > Many education authorities have forced schools in the UK to sell off playing
    > fields (football & cricket pitches etc). This is usually developed for
    > residential purposes.
    > I'm not that familiar with US university sites - but the ones I do know
    > occupy what would be prime real estate.
    > I used to pay cynics no notice - now I've joined their ranks. Too many
    > senior positions within education are held by those whose prime motivator is
    > to 'turn a buck'. Apologies to those who are still motivated by the
    > educational needs of our society ( a diminishing breed).
    > Regards,
    > Kevin Fields
    > Lecturer: Tourism & Hospitality Management
    > Birmingham College of Food, Tourism
    > & Creative Studies
    > Summer Row
    > Birmingham B3 1JB
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    > > [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of John L. Naman
    > > Sent: 03 February 1999 07:56
    > > To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    > > Subject: Re: The Last Great ...
    > >
    > >
    > > Serious Question: IF (most) universities cut faculty, increase
    > > (virtual) class
    > > size, kill tenure, keep a few well-known full time professors to
    > > do the design
    > > work on the techno-archived virtual cyber web lectures, and then can them.
    > > THEN what happens to all the campus buildings (offices,
    > > classrooms, labs)? Are
    > > we to expect the real estate to sold off and the university take
    > > up residence
    > > in a PC Server?
    > >
    > > Other than curiosity, the reason I ask is that I see no evidence
    > > of shrinking
    > > real estate. On the other hand, I do monitor population
    > > demographics and note
    > > that the U.S. population turning 18 will increase every year
    > > until 2005. It
    > > MIGHT be adaptive to allow class size to increase SLIGHTLY until then (and
    > > afterwards shrink back?). Might not the demographic imperative be
    > > driving some
    > > of the changes in the last great job?
    > > --
    > > Prof. John L. Naman naman+@pitt.edu
    > >

    --
    Bruce Clemens PhD PE
    Room 360 CISAT Tower (A-1)
    Mail Stop Code: 4102
    College of Integrated Science and Technology
    James Madison University
    Harrisonburg, VA 22807
    office: (540)568-8770
    home: (540)289-7755
    fax: (540)568-2768
    internet: clemenbw@jmu.edu
    http://www.isat.jmu.edu/faculty/clemens.htm


  • 4.  The Last Great ...

    Posted 02-03-1999 08:10
    snip.....
    >
    > Again I respectfully disagree. I'm not sure "we" can
    > afford our ivory towers, quadrangles and commons of this
    > quickly fading millenium...
    >
    > Bruce

    snip...

    Bruce,
    I'm with you in that educational institutions without a sound financial base
    will cease to exist - therefore, we do need a healthy respect for the
    balance sheet.
    But, the assets are a 'one-time' sale and, as such, just a temporary
    solution.

    I'm aware that this thread is now only tenuously connected to the original
    message - but it is still relevant. The changes to educational delivery
    which are now occurring, and set to explode into a myriad of alternatives,
    give cause for concern. I am a strong advocator of IT and the learning
    benefits it can bring, but let's not lose sight of the potential long term
    implications - which will be both positive and negative. Let's hope the
    former outweighs the latter!

    I'm not interested in protecting anyone's ivory towers, quadrangles or
    commons - if they go it's fine by me. As long as they're going for the right
    reasons. Academics are facing the greatest level of change, in a
    concentrated time-frame, that they've ever had to face. Sharing thoughts,
    experience and opinions in this forum is a first step towards helping each
    other make the right decisions.
    Progress always has a cost - let's make sure it is a cost that we can bear.

    I thought has just occurred to me. By being part of this forum, we are all
    partaking in distance-learning - so we MUST believe in it. I know I do.
    Regards,

    Kevin Fields
    Lecturer: Tourism & Hospitality Management
    Birmingham College of Food, Tourism
    & Creative Studies
    Summer Row
    Birmingham B3 1JB


  • 5.  The Last Great ...

    Posted 02-03-1999 11:21
    OH? But we can afford military budgets that are annually greater than the total
    worth of every other country of the world? Besides not being able to afford the
    sites of human contact which engender thought, empathy, and compassion, we can't
    afford welfare, health care, public transportation, ecology, and anything else
    that might be good for the people on earth and their progeny.

    "Clemens, Bruce W" wrote:

    > Again I respectfully disagree. I'm not sure "we" can
    > afford our ivory towers, quadrangles and commons of this
    > quickly fading millenium...
    >
    > Bruce
    >
    > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:30:57 -0000 Kevin Fields
    > <k.fields@BCFTCS.AC.UK> wrote:
    >
    > > Are we about to see asset-strippers in academia? In reality, they've always
    > > been there - they're just getting more power.
    > > Many education authorities have forced schools in the UK to sell off playing
    > > fields (football & cricket pitches etc). This is usually developed for
    > > residential purposes.
    > > I'm not that familiar with US university sites - but the ones I do know
    > > occupy what would be prime real estate.
    > > I used to pay cynics no notice - now I've joined their ranks. Too many
    > > senior positions within education are held by those whose prime motivator is
    > > to 'turn a buck'. Apologies to those who are still motivated by the
    > > educational needs of our society ( a diminishing breed).
    > > Regards,
    > > Kevin Fields
    > > Lecturer: Tourism & Hospitality Management
    > > Birmingham College of Food, Tourism
    > > & Creative Studies
    > > Summer Row
    > > Birmingham B3 1JB
    > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    > > > [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of John L. Naman
    > > > Sent: 03 February 1999 07:56
    > > > To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    > > > Subject: Re: The Last Great ...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Serious Question: IF (most) universities cut faculty, increase
    > > > (virtual) class
    > > > size, kill tenure, keep a few well-known full time professors to
    > > > do the design
    > > > work on the techno-archived virtual cyber web lectures, and then can them.
    > > > THEN what happens to all the campus buildings (offices,
    > > > classrooms, labs)? Are
    > > > we to expect the real estate to sold off and the university take
    > > > up residence
    > > > in a PC Server?
    > > >
    > > > Other than curiosity, the reason I ask is that I see no evidence
    > > > of shrinking
    > > > real estate. On the other hand, I do monitor population
    > > > demographics and note
    > > > that the U.S. population turning 18 will increase every year
    > > > until 2005. It
    > > > MIGHT be adaptive to allow class size to increase SLIGHTLY until then (and
    > > > afterwards shrink back?). Might not the demographic imperative be
    > > > driving some
    > > > of the changes in the last great job?
    > > > --
    > > > Prof. John L. Naman naman+@pitt.edu
    > > >
    >
    > --
    > Bruce Clemens PhD PE
    > Room 360 CISAT Tower (A-1)
    > Mail Stop Code: 4102
    > College of Integrated Science and Technology
    > James Madison University
    > Harrisonburg, VA 22807
    > office: (540)568-8770
    > home: (540)289-7755
    > fax: (540)568-2768
    > internet: clemenbw@jmu.edu
    > http://www.isat.jmu.edu/faculty/clemens.htm


  • 6.  The Last Great ...

    Posted 02-03-1999 11:45
    Following up on Kevins comments relating to the UK. What I find
    so very sad is that we had great expectations that things would change
    with the advent of our new (Labour?) government. Unfortunately, as
    Kevin highlights, there is little evidence of any control being exercised
    over the "educational" beurocrats who run our institutions.

    Tony Ingold

    Dr. Anthony Ingold
    Reader & Director of Research
    Birmingham College of Food, Tourism & Creative Studies
    Summer Row, Birmingham B3 1JB, UK
    Tel: 0121 604 1000 x 345
    Fax: 00 44 121 200 1376
    Mobile: 07970 126909