Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  The Extinction of the last Great Occupation on Earth

    Posted 02-04-1999 12:10
    Hi Rob,
    Thanks for your reply. I am sharing my reply with ROT-L and Mgt-Ed since I
    am having to respond to similar issues that you raise. I agree that more an
    more techno is being pumped into the mgt ed. delivery system, and that the
    administrators have already subverted our role in Academic Freedom, but
    there are some points I want to respond to.

    1. The New techn changes to Cybertech and Biotech are being implemented en
    mass without much dialogue about Bioethics or Cyber-ethics. We do not see
    the kinds o Biotech Century discussion of Rifkin (1998) or think ind of
    Darwin Among the Machines wokrk by (Dyson, 1997) or by Best and Kellner in
    papers they are about to publish in several places.

    2. It is not some idealic image of learning that I lament, it is the new
    exercise in social control that happens as most new technologies get adopted
    in business. While we are made to get use to it, we business faculty
    participate in the seamless socialization of the population so they do not
    resist the new technology or the Duponts and Monsantos that are unleashing
    the new species human into the ecology.

    3. I think we are sold a bill of good about linking up folks who can not get
    education because they are too remote. There are a few remote folks who do
    not want to commute. But look at the case of New Mexico, a diffuse
    population with lots of rural foks in small towns. Six to ten distance ed.
    provideres including New Mexico State compete in out-lying communities to
    provide distance ed. What you see is each attracting very few students from
    the rural areas and having to pay for the technology by enticing on-campus
    students to fill out the empty seats. The competition is cutthroat to reach
    the rural few. Students on campus do not seem to like the distance ed. "Why
    come to campus if I am doing cyber-class work?"

    4. Weber always applies, but the fire wall between business and the
    "creative side of the university" is also the administrations gamit to turn
    the university into a profit-seeking business, to make its innovative
    entrepreneurial adventure appropriators of our intellectual property. And
    this is where Braverman and the labor process theory applies in ways that
    Weber did not foresee.

    5. I disagree about universities not being a special target. There is
    special attention on universities as the AACSB and the Regional Reaccredit
    the University associations attempts to implement the kinds of Outcome
    Assessmment Strategies they have used to make high school a joke. Measuring
    outcomes is a ruse since everyone knows you substutite what you can measure
    for what you can not. What you can measure is the implementation of the
    neauvoux techo. And as you say the college and hish school is part of how
    the population gets socialized.

    6. I did wake up. But it is not the innovation that freightens me. It is the
    lake of critical appraisal of the changes and the uses they are being put
    to. And as you say we are telling ourselves a new story about the Biotech
    and cybertech Century, but to me it is a One-Dimensional Man story (i.e.
    Marcuse), one that celebrates without asking the ethical questions.

    7. I think we have to look carefully at evolutin theory and its uses in
    busess. We do mimic the evolution models in mgt/ot, just as Spencer mimicked
    Darwin to give us survival of the richest business legitimation, and we now
    adapt the chaos/complexity/self-organizing theories. But we also need to
    look at what is this phenomenon of co-evolution? That is how is it that the
    cyber/machine system is co-evolving with the human, and these co-evolving
    with the Biotech species changes we are genetically reengineering and
    unleashing into the planet, how is the cyberspace coevolving with cyborg
    (human/machine). Mimicry may be a well known effective evolutionary
    strategy, but it is one we need to look at carefully. I recommend Dyson's
    (1997) book, Darwin among the Machines and Mitchell's (1997) The Last
    Diinosaur Book. this is critical scholarship, but what I seen being
    presented as magagement thought is more like Leonard's book "BOT" (1997).

    8. HMO's have a downside. What is wildly out-of-control is the dependency
    on drugs medical care and the even more access of the privileged vs. the
    masses caught in HMO care. Making doctors into MBAs is a scary thought. We
    becoming EMO's is the way of it. To me it is time to remember Ivan Illich
    and Deschool the University, get back to the university life of the 12th
    century. The rise of corporate universities is another new form that AACSB
    (I went to their convention a year ago) is imitating and partnering with.
    The control of knowledge is the new mission statement of AACSB. Control by
    whom? Control for whom? These are challenging questions. The buzz is for
    efficiency, cost control and profit, but more is going on in this co-evolution.

    9. I do think that Business professors are a conservate interest group. We
    never taught the reality of business life, not the way that Ptton Sinclair
    (1905) studied it in the Jungle. We present a glorified and heroic image of
    management history, one so standard, that Seteve Robbins reduced it to a
    dozen pages and stuck it in the appendix in his new Management book edition.
    We present highly conservative histories, not daring at all to drag out a
    history of the Peasantariat, as does Burrell (1996) in Pandemonium.

    10. A real issue of concern lies in the creation of knowledge. I agree. And
    society is adjusting itself to the new coevoltuion. And as Rifkin in biotech
    Century argues, with new technology there must be the invention of a new
    theory of nature, a new cosmology, that legitimates it all as "common sense"
    and "natural evolution." What we are seeing is the cosmology that overcomes
    resistance. We critical/postmodernists will be labeled Luddite, and we will
    be dismissed, there will be no revolution, the masses will sign up for
    chat-room Univiersity and they will be socialized into accepting higher
    increments of violence in the bloody Nintendo games. And all in the name of
    the Second and Third Genesis, the evolving "Good Society."

    11 I agree - Witness high school and community college cultures dominated by
    administrators. We are also witness of the Outcomes Assessment movement
    migrating to the University to centralize control over delivery and
    knowledge produciton.

    In sum, we are witness to the spectacle of evolution as Guy Debord spoke of
    in the Situationat International movement (see Best and Kellner chapter in
    Postmodern Turn).

    Thanks Rob to giving serious thought and response to my Luddite ideas.


  • 2.  The Extinction of the last Great Occupation on Earth

    Posted 02-04-1999 12:55
    Mgt Educatiors:
    Thanks for your many replies. I am resending this, I think the listserve
    kicked it back. It if it redundant, I apologize in advance.

    I am sharing my reply with ROT-L and Mgt-Ed since I
    am having to respond to similar issues that you raise. I agree that more an
    more techno is being pumped into the mgt ed. delivery system, and that the
    administrators have already subverted our role in Academic Freedom, but
    there are some points I want to respond to.

    1. The New techn changes to Cybertech and Biotech are being implemented en
    mass without much dialogue about Bioethics or Cyber-ethics. We do not see
    the kinds o Biotech Century discussion of Rifkin (1998) or think ind of
    Darwin Among the Machines wokrk by (Dyson, 1997) or by Best and Kellner in
    papers they are about to publish in several places.

    2. It is not some idealic image of learning that I lament, it is the new
    exercise in social control that happens as most new technologies get adopted
    in business. While we are made to get use to it, we business faculty
    participate in the seamless socialization of the population so they do not
    resist the new technology or the Duponts and Monsantos that are unleashing
    the new species human into the ecology.

    3. I think we are sold a bill of good about linking up folks who can not get
    education because they are too remote. There are a few remote folks who do
    not want to commute. But look at the case of New Mexico, a diffuse
    population with lots of rural foks in small towns. Six to ten distance ed.
    provideres including New Mexico State compete in out-lying communities to
    provide distance ed. What you see is each attracting very few students from
    the rural areas and having to pay for the technology by enticing on-campus
    students to fill out the empty seats. The competition is cutthroat to reach
    the rural few. Students on campus do not seem to like the distance ed. "Why
    come to campus if I am doing cyber-class work?"

    4. Weber always applies, but the fire wall between business and the
    "creative side of the university" is also the administrations gamit to turn
    the university into a profit-seeking business, to make its innovative
    entrepreneurial adventure appropriators of our intellectual property. And
    this is where Braverman and the labor process theory applies in ways that
    Weber did not foresee.

    5. I disagree about universities not being a special target. There is
    special attention on universities as the AACSB and the Regional Reaccredit
    the University associations attempts to implement the kinds of Outcome
    Assessmment Strategies they have used to make high school a joke. Measuring
    outcomes is a ruse since everyone knows you substutite what you can measure
    for what you can not. What you can measure is the implementation of the
    neauvoux techo. And as you say the college and hish school is part of how
    the population gets socialized.

    6. I did wake up. But it is not the innovation that freightens me. It is the
    lake of critical appraisal of the changes and the uses they are being put
    to. And as you say we are telling ourselves a new story about the Biotech
    and cybertech Century, but to me it is a One-Dimensional Man story (i.e.
    Marcuse), one that celebrates without asking the ethical questions.

    7. I think we have to look carefully at evolutin theory and its uses in
    busess. We do mimic the evolution models in mgt/ot, just as Spencer mimicked
    Darwin to give us survival of the richest business legitimation, and we now
    adapt the chaos/complexity/self-organizing theories. But we also need to
    look at what is this phenomenon of co-evolution? That is how is it that the
    cyber/machine system is co-evolving with the human, and these co-evolving
    with the Biotech species changes we are genetically reengineering and
    unleashing into the planet, how is the cyberspace coevolving with cyborg
    (human/machine). Mimicry may be a well known effective evolutionary
    strategy, but it is one we need to look at carefully. I recommend Dyson's
    (1997) book, Darwin among the Machines and Mitchell's (1997) The Last
    Diinosaur Book. this is critical scholarship, but what I seen being
    presented as magagement thought is more like Leonard's book "BOT" (1997).

    8. HMO's have a downside. What is wildly out-of-control is the dependency
    on drugs medical care and the even more access of the privileged vs. the
    masses caught in HMO care. Making doctors into MBAs is a scary thought. We
    becoming EMO's is the way of it. To me it is time to remember Ivan Illich
    and Deschool the University, get back to the university life of the 12th
    century. The rise of corporate universities is another new form that AACSB
    (I went to their convention a year ago) is imitating and partnering with.
    The control of knowledge is the new mission statement of AACSB. Control by
    whom? Control for whom? These are challenging questions. The buzz is for
    efficiency, cost control and profit, but more is going on in this co-evolution.

    9. I do think that Business professors are a conservate interest group. We
    never taught the reality of business life, not the way that Ptton Sinclair
    (1905) studied it in the Jungle. We present a glorified and heroic image of
    management history, one so standard, that Seteve Robbins reduced it to a
    dozen pages and stuck it in the appendix in his new Management book edition.
    We present highly conservative histories, not daring at all to drag out a
    history of the Peasantariat, as does Burrell (1996) in Pandemonium.

    10. A real issue of concern lies in the creation of knowledge. I agree. And
    society is adjusting itself to the new coevoltuion. And as Rifkin in biotech
    Century argues, with new technology there must be the invention of a new
    theory of nature, a new cosmology, that legitimates it all as "common sense"
    and "natural evolution." What we are seeing is the cosmology that overcomes
    resistance. We critical/postmodernists will be labeled Luddite, and we will
    be dismissed, there will be no revolution, the masses will sign up for
    chat-room Univiersity and they will be socialized into accepting higher
    increments of violence in the bloody Nintendo games. And all in the name of
    the Second and Third Genesis, the evolving "Good Society."

    11 I agree - Witness high school and community college cultures dominated by
    administrators. We are also witness of the Outcomes Assessment movement
    migrating to the University to centralize control over delivery and
    knowledge produciton.

    In sum, we are witness to the spectacle of evolution as Guy Debord spoke of
    in the Situationat International movement (see Best and Kellner chapter in
    Postmodern Turn).

    Thanks Rob to giving serious thought and response to my Luddite ideas.