Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  textbook material

    Posted 02-23-1999 22:41
    Greetings!

    I have just joined the list and would like to get some input from
    subscribers that I can use for a textboook project.

    I am working on an Organization Theory book for McGraw Hill that would be
    used in management courses as well as sociology courses in organizations.

    For those of you who teach these courses I am interested in knowing:

    1. What material/topics do you believe are indispensible for an Org Theory
    text? That is, they must be included for you to even consider the text.

    2. What material/topics would you like to see more often that is typically
    ignored or insufficiently treated?

    My thanks in advance; respondents might prefer to email me directly using
    the addresses below.

    David Jaffee
    Dept of Sociology
    SUNY-New Paltz
    jaffeed@npvm.newpaltz.edu <mailto:jaffeed@npvm.newpaltz.edu>
    jaffeed@msn.com <mailto:jaffeed@msn.com>


  • 2.  textbook material

    Posted 02-24-1999 09:34
    Dear Fellow Netters, Normally I would send a private message to Professor
    Jaffee regarding what might/should/could be taught in an Organization
    Theory class, and I will put my "two cents" in during this email. However,
    I encourage those of you who work with clients on the firing line to tell
    we academics what kinds of topics/issues you encounter/struggle with as you
    work with clients. For my part, here is the list of questions I attempt to
    explore with my students when I teach OT:

    1. Why do organizations exists in the first place?

    2. Why do only some organziations survive?

    3. Why and how do organizations differ?

    4. Why and how do organizations change?

    5. What is the role of management?

    6. What are the emerging issues facing organizations?

    From the halls of academia,

    Kim Boal


    At 07:40 PM 2/23/99 -0800, you wrote:
    >Greetings!
    >
    >I have just joined the list and would like to get some input from
    >subscribers that I can use for a textboook project.
    >
    >I am working on an Organization Theory book for McGraw Hill that would be
    >used in management courses as well as sociology courses in organizations.
    >
    >For those of you who teach these courses I am interested in knowing:
    >
    >1. What material/topics do you believe are indispensible for an Org Theory
    >text? That is, they must be included for you to even consider the text.
    >
    >2. What material/topics would you like to see more often that is typically
    >ignored or insufficiently treated?
    >
    >My thanks in advance; respondents might prefer to email me directly using
    >the addresses below.
    >
    >David Jaffee
    >Dept of Sociology
    >SUNY-New Paltz
    >jaffeed@npvm.newpaltz.edu <mailto:jaffeed@npvm.newpaltz.edu>
    >jaffeed@msn.com <mailto:jaffeed@msn.com>
    >
    --------------------------------
    Kim Boal
    College of Business Administration
    Texas Tech University
    Lubbock, TX 79409
    (806) 742-2150
    KimBoal@ttu.edu


  • 3.  textbook material

    Posted 02-24-1999 10:53
    Like David Jaffee, I too have just joined this list so I thought I'd
    respond to his issue.

    I had a class on Tuesday night who were surprised that "Organisational
    Design" was not even in their textbook (they weren't the only ones that
    were surprised, believe me ... )

    What astounds me is not only the "minor" changes that are made to
    textbooks, but the blatant "commercialism" whereby the same diagrams and
    cases/articles are literally repackaged under a different title by the same
    author. I'd love to know what we should do with the "Volvo Experiment" now
    that Ford has bought their factories!!!

    This all leads me to believe that unless we stop and challenge the theory,
    we may never progress and learn new ways of doing things.

    Just my two (Australian) cents worth.

    Alan :-)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Alan Wilson ~ Facilitated Solutions
    Speaker & Trainer to the Meetings Industry


  • 4.  textbook material

    Posted 02-24-1999 13:22
    Alan Wilson, raises concerns about why OT tests look the same and seem to
    merely repackage old wine into new wine bottles. Some years ago, Barbara
    Leevitt and Cliford Nass (1989. The lid on the garbage can: Insitutional
    constraints on decision making in the technical core of college-test
    publishers. Administrative Science Quarterly, 34(2);;190-207) studied
    issues relating to Alan's concerns. Among their finding was that Text book
    editors have no idea why some textbooks sell and others don't. Therefore,
    they tend to copy (benchmark) succssful books. The result of which is that
    they all look the same.

    If you are looking for something different), I too recommend that you look
    at Jo Hatch's OT text. FAIR WARNING: Jo writes from critical and
    puralist perspectives, thus she will surely challenge some/much of
    conventional wisdom. This is bound to make some people uncomfortable.

    Disclosre: Jo is the European Section Editor of the Journal of Management
    Inquiry which I Co-Edit with Paul Hirsch (Northwestern University). Thus,
    I am not a disinterested evaluator of Jo's work.

    Regards, Kim Boal


    At 11:53 PM 2/24/99 +0800, you wrote:
    >Like David Jaffee, I too have just joined this list so I thought I'd
    >respond to his issue.
    >
    >I had a class on Tuesday night who were surprised that "Organisational
    >Design" was not even in their textbook (they weren't the only ones that
    >were surprised, believe me ... )
    >
    >What astounds me is not only the "minor" changes that are made to
    >textbooks, but the blatant "commercialism" whereby the same diagrams and
    >cases/articles are literally repackaged under a different title by the same
    >author. I'd love to know what we should do with the "Volvo Experiment" now
    >that Ford has bought their factories!!!
    >
    >This all leads me to believe that unless we stop and challenge the theory,
    >we may never progress and learn new ways of doing things.
    >
    >Just my two (Australian) cents worth.
    >
    >Alan :-)
    >----------------------------------------------------------
    > Alan Wilson ~ Facilitated Solutions
    > Speaker & Trainer to the Meetings Industry
    >----------------------------------------------------------
    >
    --------------------------------
    Kim Boal
    College of Business Administration
    Texas Tech University
    Lubbock, TX 79409
    (806) 742-2150
    KimBoal@ttu.edu


  • 5.  Textbook material

    Posted 02-25-1999 13:55
    On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Kim Boal wrote Re: textbook material
    [...]
    >I encourage those of you who work with clients on the firing line to tell
    >we academics what kinds of topics/issues you encounter/struggle with as you
    >work with clients. For my part, here is the list of questions I attempt to
    >explore with my students when I teach OT:
    >
    >1. Why do organizations exists in the first place?
    >2. Why do only some organziations survive?
    >3. Why and how do organizations differ?
    >4. Why and how do organizations change?
    >5. What is the role of management?
    >6. What are the emerging issues facing organizations?

    >From the halls of academia,
    >
    >Kim Boal

    Well, from the shores of Tripoli (or feels like it) --- please consider the
    following:

    Most people, especially managers, take "organization" as a given, as in
    Marketing, Sales, Engineering, Finance, etc., and fail to understand that
    "organization" is the ninth decision to be made. Other than sheer luck or
    astounding intuitiveness (both of which should not be discounted) my
    experience is that appropriate organizations have come about by answering a
    sequence of nine questions and diagnosis of organizational problems
    typically points to the lack of one or more foundational answers.
    1. Why does this enteprise seek to continue existing?
    2. What demands must we honor?
    3. What Value Carriers must we produce in order to honor the Demands?
    4. What Resources are required to produce the Value Carriers?
    5. What Activities are required in order to apply the resources in a way
    that produces the value carriers?
    6. What types and quantities of people are needed to a) perform the
    activities, b) supervise the activities, c) regenerate answers to #1 and #2
    as the enterprise context changes and d) coevolve consequent answers to #3
    - #6? Note that People are not Resources. They are the Reason for the
    enterprise, not the Resources of the enterprise.
    7. What types and quantities of People will have to be used regardless of
    the ideal set?
    8. What rules apply to the formation of people into workgroups? Now we
    are entering the world of "emergent behavior" because group behavior cannot
    be predicted simply by linearlysumming the characteristics of the
    individuals.
    9. How should the available People be organized (meaning What quanta and
    their interrelationships and interactions are best)?

    It seems to me that the weak spot is #8. There simply are not enough rules
    explicated in the books nor the conferences nor by "coaches" to meet the
    need. And the lemming rush to "best practices" is not an answer; only a
    palliative in lieu of principles.

    Your set of questions seem excellent providing that "organization" is not a
    given but a conclusion.

    Perhaps we will never know enough about #8. Until then, should managers
    use their enterprise to run "controlled experiments" toward discovering
    more knowledge regarding #8? I think so -- and suggest you add "How can we
    Know?" to your list.

    This discussion relates to the other thread regarding Growth Enterprises,
    as well. The most predominant problem in managing growth is "the amount
    and lead time of cash" because if you fail Drucker's test of Liquidity you
    are out. No mulligans. The second is the need to "shift gears,
    organizationally" as the enterprise gathers speed else the enterprise
    over-revs its engine (aka founder heart attacks or dictator behavior).
    Appropriate shifting points seem to be at the following ranges on the
    people involvement scale: 4-5, 16-22, 65-90, 250-350 and --- it doesn't
    make much difference above 350 because responsiveness, quality, and return
    on resources turns dismal, and persists (except for monopolies).

    Hope this is useful.

    Jack Ring, 32712 N. 70th St., Snottsdale, AZ 85262-7143
    602-488-4615, Cell) 602.369.4615, Fax)602-488-4616
    Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.
    Dance like nobody's watching.