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  • 1.  Requests from students

    Posted 02-26-1999 03:14
    What is going on in current college courses? I have been inundated recently
    by requests from students asking for information for their papers that are
    due "in a few days." It wouldn't be so bad if they were asking very
    specific and well thought out questions, but they have been so broad and
    general, it sounded like they had done no research prior to contact, and
    that they essentially want me to write the paper.

    Asking my opinion, based on my experience, about what I think is the most
    important skill a supervisor needs is one thing, but the last request asked
    what "some of the things a supervisor does and all of the things he/she
    needs to know in order to become one". She also lamented that no one had
    responded to her request. (you should have seen the typos!)

    Are professors encouraging students to go out and ask busy business people
    such inane questions? What happened to good, old fashioned research and
    formulating a position before asking people questions? And why are current
    students (and many others) so interested in nothing but web sites? Did all
    of the colleges close down their libraries? I begin to wonder if current
    college students even know how to go into a library and conduct proper
    research there, or on the web. I also wonder if our current educational
    system is teaching students how to conduct research and solid analytical
    skills.

    Sorry to unload, but 10 requests in 2 days, with only one intelligent and
    specific question, is a bit much!


    Gary Lear
    President & CEO

    Resource Development Systems
    Management & Training Consultants

    P.O. Box 3185
    Lake City, FL 32056

    Phone: 904-754-0920
    Fax: 904-754-0094
    Toll-Free in U.S. 888-909-6194

    Web: www.rds-net.com
    e-mail: gelear@rds-net.com


  • 2.  Requests from students

    Posted 02-26-1999 06:40
    George,
    Looking out at the Jersey snow this morning I envy you in Florida! You
    raise a lot of questions. One is on why should students focus so much on
    the web rather than the library. Well the web is the new library. Take
    something like the Britannica Encyclopedia:
    http://www.eb.com/
    That was once something very expensive and used by students mostly in
    libraries. Now you can go to web a pay for 10 uses for ten dollars to do
    your (or $5/month or other deals). The annual reports, articles, personal
    contacts, term papers, etc. to be found on the web are mind-boggling. It
    used to be said that the web was a mile wide and an inch deep. I think that
    its gotten a lot deeper. Students who don't learn to swim in it will sink.
    Charlie Wankel
    St. John's University--New York City
    listmaster mg-ed-dv
    wankelc@stjohns.edu

    And why
    > are current
    > students (and many others) so interested in nothing but web
    > sites? Did all
    > of the colleges close down their libraries? I begin to wonder if current
    > college students even know how to go into a library and conduct proper
    > research there, or on the web. I also wonder if our current educational
    > system is teaching students how to conduct research and solid analytical
    > skills.
    >
    > Sorry to unload, but 10 requests in 2 days, with only one intelligent and
    > specific question, is a bit much!
    >
    >
    > Gary Lear

    > Lake City, FL


  • 3.  Requests from students

    Posted 02-26-1999 08:29
    I have to concur with Charlie (You think the weather is tough in Jersey!
    Ha!). I am a "former" academic (you really never are not one again). I visit
    a library extremely rarely. On the other hand, I am on the net almost
    constantly searching for data, articles, etc. Given the advances in info
    technology, one would be foolish indeed who did not ask for appropriate web
    sites and instead starting plowing through stacks or index cards.

    And about the grammar. There was a note from an active academic in this post
    just two or three days ago that used surprisingly bad grammar (used improper
    case of the first person plural). So that too does not strike only the
    undergrads.

    But as for familiarity with research, Gary is dead on. The capacity for
    critical thinking does seem to be waning.

    ______________

    Randall W. Kindley The Performance Group
    5215 45th Ave. S. "Building High Performance
    Minneapolis MN 55417-2334 Organizations by Developing
    612-721-6752 People and Processes"

    kindley@dialupnet.com www.topleaders.com

    .


  • 4.  Requests from students

    Posted 02-26-1999 10:00
    Gary - several things are going on! In my opinion, some of them probably
    are:

    1. There have always been students who, for a variety of reasons, will
    look for an easy way out of serious research. Many are truly overloaded;
    some from taking too many courses, some from their other lives (work,
    sports, family, partying, etc.), some from inadequate preparation in
    previous education, some from taking programs that are really beyond their
    capabilities. Old papers, reports, journal articles, etc. have always
    been around. Use of the internet is just the latest approach.

    2. Survey research is not easy. Further, many faculty may not know how
    themselves and/or may not pass their knowledge to their students.

    3. Without question, the trend to greater inclusivity and the demand that
    colleges retain as many of their enrollees as possible have contributed to
    a larger proportion of students that don't really understand what is
    wanted in those courses in which rigorous assignments are given. As an
    undergraduate, I took a program from a very selective university that
    prided itself on only graduating about one-third of those who entered.
    Although that school is still very selective, a major aim is to graduate
    as many as possible.

    4. As always, we have those who are procrastinators and those who
    underestimate time requirements.

    I can't suggest how you should respond; when I was in industry I did
    receive interview requests from outsiders, usually as market research. I
    tended to acceed to these requests, but cut short those interviews when it
    was clear that the questioner was ill-prepared. A dose of reality would
    be appropriate for those students who are obviously very late and/or
    poorly prepared. Perhaps a courteous, short, standardized paragraph could
    be used to respond to such requests? It could point out what you look for
    in such requests, and could be easily called up and inserted as a reply.

    Some specific responses interspersed below.

    Tim Edlund, Morgan State University

    On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Gary Lear wrote:

    > What is going on in current college courses? I have been inundated recently
    > by requests from students asking for information for their papers that are
    > due "in a few days." It wouldn't be so bad if they were asking very
    > specific and well thought out questions, but they have been so broad and
    > general, it sounded like they had done no research prior to contact, and
    > that they essentially want me to write the paper.

    This is clearly inappropriate.

    > Asking my opinion, based on my experience, about what I think is the most
    > important skill a supervisor needs is one thing, but the last request asked
    > what "some of the things a supervisor does and all of the things he/she
    > needs to know in order to become one". She also lamented that no one had
    > responded to her request. (you should have seen the typos!)

    From some students, I get responses like this in class and on
    papers. Most don't even seem to understand what is the problem with such
    a broadbrush approach.

    > Are professors encouraging students to go out and ask busy business people
    > such inane questions? What happened to good, old fashioned research and
    > formulating a position before asking people questions? And why are current
    > students (and many others) so interested in nothing but web sites? Did all
    > of the colleges close down their libraries? I begin to wonder if current
    > college students even know how to go into a library and conduct proper
    > research there, or on the web. I also wonder if our current educational
    > system is teaching students how to conduct research and solid analytical
    > skills.

    All of the above is ample justification for the need for you,
    Gary, and for all our other customers, to carefully screen the outputs of
    ALL of our schools. The degree, even from the "best" schools, does not
    guarantee anything except a certain degree of persistence. That has
    always been true to some extent; it is more so now.

    >
    > Sorry to unload, but 10 requests in 2 days, with only one intelligent and
    > specific question, is a bit much!
    >
    >
    > Gary Lear
    > President & CEO
    >
    > Resource Development Systems
    > Management & Training Consultants
    >
    > P.O. Box 3185
    > Lake City, FL 32056
    >
    > Phone: 904-754-0920
    > Fax: 904-754-0094
    > Toll-Free in U.S. 888-909-6194
    >
    > Web: www.rds-net.com
    > e-mail: gelear@rds-net.com
    >


  • 5.  Requests from students

    Posted 02-26-1999 11:56
    Amen to Charles Wankel's statement. As a market researcher of 35 years
    standing, I am just amazed at the depth of information on the web, and
    the drop in cost of obtaining it over the past 5 years.

    Also, I agree with Gary Lear about students who want you to do their
    work. I have a very curt, firm note to them which explains what they
    have to do to get an answer from me.

    Charles Wankel wrote:
    >
    > George,
    > Looking out at the Jersey snow this morning I envy you in Florida! You
    > raise a lot of questions. One is on why should students focus so much on
    > the web rather than the library. Well the web is the new library.
    > >
    > > Sorry to unload, but 10 requests in 2 days, with only one intelligent and
    > > specific question, is a bit much!
    > >
    > >
    > > Gary Lear
    >
    > > Lake City, FL

    --
    Dick Montgomery, General Manager
    21st Century Co-operative
    Our Mission - "Help You Increase Sales"
    http://www.chemmgrs.com


  • 6.  Requests from students

    Posted 02-27-1999 05:04
    I wish to offer an empirical perspective on the several requests from students.
    I see high school and college students with 1) no desire to read books or
    newspaper articles longer than a hundred words or so, particularly outside of a
    required assignment and 2) strong deadline driven behavior. For example, I have
    seen my own teenager attempt to begin to write a term paper one hour before it
    was due. In researching an anti-war term paper, all books were rejected, only
    pamphlets, posters, TV movies, and quick interviews were used. At the MBA
    level, when I put readings online, the distribution of web hits showed that 10%
    of the class was downloading the readings (some 27 pages long) within one hour
    before class, another 10% the hour before, about 8% the hour before that. I
    assumed 3 hours to read, reflect, and write the answers. What I got were a few
    well thought out pieces and a lot of short, "lite", pieces that showed barely a
    surface understanding. Lastly, while you may think that students are reading
    things on the web, our distance education people tell us that 80% of users
    never scroll, which means they don't read below the abstract of a paper. But
    students expect (demand) a high grade for EFFORT in clicking to many sites
    (until they find something that sounds relevant).

    I fault any high school educational system that teaches "feelings", but assigns
    little homework and practices "social promotions" without demanding minimum
    skill levels. I would not expect much in the way of a term paper from a 6th
    grader and perhaps you should not expect so much from those who contact you
    over the web. Consider gently encouraging them to read and tell them the name
    of books to ask for in the Library (for example, "The Function of the
    Executive" is probably too abstract for Gary Lear's student, but Mintzbergs
    roles of managers would be do. Leading them to a chapter in a entry level
    textbook might be about the speed that the students can handle.

    Your REALLY BIG problem is figuring out how you are going to handle all these
    students as employees. You may not have a lot of choice within a few years, so
    you might as well face up to it now.

    --
    Prof. John L. Naman naman+@pitt.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~naman


  • 7.  requests from students

    Posted 03-02-1999 12:55
    Gary Lear said:

    It wouldn't be so bad if they were asking very
    specific and well thought out questions, but they have been so broad and
    general, it sounded like they had done no research prior to contact, and
    that they essentially want me to write the paper.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    So, nothing new there then! :-)

    I agree, it is very irritating. It seems no matter how often you explain
    to students that they need to think through the rationale underlying
    their information gathering; they still turn out the same old rubbish!

    Please tell me all you know about.............

    Tony Ingold

    Dr. Anthony Ingold
    Reader & Director of Research
    Birmingham College of Food, Tourism & Creative Studies
    Summer Row, Birmingham B3 1JB, UK
    Tel: 0121 604 1000 x 345
    Fax: 00 44 121 200 1376
    Mobile: 07970 126909