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Student Writing Problems

  • 1.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 11:25
    Colleagues--

    I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.

    Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?

    Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    cross-postings.

    Ruth
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    The George Washington University | simple solution--
    Home: | and it's wrong.
    (301)593-4938 |
    11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |


  • 2.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 12:58
    >Professor Ruth H. Axelrod writes: Have any of your schools taken steps,
    apart from the traditional Freshmen English courses, to deal with this problem
    such as discipline-specific advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum")
    or competency exams? Do you know of any model programs or other resources out
    there including ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?

    Professor Axelrod:

    There was an interesting article recently which highlighted a program at
    California Lutheran University (Thousand Oaks, CA). It was "writing across
    the curriculum" based and involved a cooperative arrangement between the
    English and Criminal Justice Departments. Freshmen (and some sophmore)
    criminal justice students were "clustered," and directed into two courses that
    were "paired" (Freshman English and Intro to Criminal Justice). The involved
    professors collaborated on assignments, arriving at five written assignments
    that covered the behavioral learning objectives of both courses. There is
    also a discussion of the university general education requirements and
    modifications made by administration to strengthen written skills. This is an
    overall excellent article that includes a paper editing sheet as an appendix.
    (The paper editing sheet was designed to be used with peer critiques, and
    covers the format of the paper and four questions dealing with content.)

    CITATION:

    Doyle, Michael, and Robert J. Meadows. 1997. A writing-intensive approach to
    criminal justice education: The California Lutheran University model. _The
    Justice Professional_ 10, no. 1: 19-30.

    The Cal Lutheran Model seems to be a very efficient way of _beginning_ to
    address student writing deficiencies. Considering the importance of writing
    in government and the business worId, it would seem appropriate for more
    writing intensive courses to be required. This could be achieved through
    further cooperative arrangements, or within the curriculum (mandating minimum
    written requirement standards for required and elective courses). Either way,
    proficiency in written communication is sorely needed in the "real world."

    Several additional articles advocating writing across the curriculum (for
    criminal justice, interestingly enough, my public administration education
    journals came up empty):

    Blowers, Anita Neuberger, and Maureen M. Donahue. 1994. Teaching a writing-
    intensive criminal justice course: an educational challenge. _Journal of
    Criminal Justice Education_ 5 (Spring, no. 1): 69-80.

    Gladis, Stephen D. 1991. Writing-to-learn strategies for criminal justice
    educators. _Journal of Criminal Justice Education_ 2 (Fall, no. 2): 237-243.

    Gray, Tara. 1998. Your students can too write - and you can show them how.
    _Journal of Criminal Justice Education_ 9 (Spring, no. 1): 131-153.

    Rounds, Delbert L. Jr., and Karen L. McCullough. 1998. Writing across the
    curriculum and criminal justice courses: successful assignments 101.
    _Journal of Criminal Justice Education_ 9 (Spring, no. 1): 155-167.

    Good luck!

    Bruce Pawlak
    Doctoral Student in Public Administration
    University of La Verne
    "Scholarly-Practitioner-in-Training"


  • 3.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 14:05
    Ruth, and the list,

    We have made the undergraduate business communication a required course again,
    and implemented a "professional communication" version in our MBA program. And
    yes, our programs are AACSB accredited. I can't tell whether the courses are making andy difference. We don't have
    enough data yet to assess this.

    What's the opinion of the list? Do Business Schools with required
    Communication/writing courses put out a graduate whose writing skills are
    superior to the business schools that don't have such a requirement??

    William Sharbrough
    sharbroughw@citadel.edu

    >Colleagues--

    >I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    >poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    >students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    >grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    >with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    >exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    >international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    >and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    >us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.

    >Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    >English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    >advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    >Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    >ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?

    >Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    >cross-postings.

    >Ruth
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    >Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    >The George Washington University | simple solution--
    >Home: | and it's wrong.
    > (301)593-4938 |
    > 11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    >Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    William C. Sharbrough, Ph.D.
    Associate Professor of Business Administration
    The Citadel
    171 Moultrie Street
    Charleston, SC 29409

    Office (843) 953-5164 FAX (843) 953-6764 or Home (843) 763-8512
    E-Mail: SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  • 4.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 14:11
    Beyond that, this problem is exacerbated by faculty who can't spell, who
    don't use spell-checking, let alone construct a reasonable sentence; and
    who also don't use the resources available to improve their writing. The
    first step must be to heal ourselves. I'll spell check this e-mail before
    sending it. When we ourselves write poorly, how can we expect our
    students to do better?

    I find Strunk & White to be the best guide - and very inexpensive one at
    that.

    Check Loyola College here in Baltimore - they do have an extensive writing
    across the curriculum program. Also, check the writing component in
    Boston University's 12 credit hour introductory course for Freshmen in
    their School of Management.

    Tim Edlund, Morgan State University

    On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Ruth H. Axelrod wrote:

    > Colleagues--
    >
    > I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    > poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    > students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    > grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    > with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    > exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    > international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    > and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    > us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.
    >
    > Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    > English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    > advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    > Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    > ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?
    >
    > Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    > cross-postings.
    >
    > Ruth
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    > Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    > The George Washington University | simple solution--
    > Home: | and it's wrong.
    > (301)593-4938 |
    > 11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    > Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >


  • 5.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 15:55
    At 11:24 AM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
    >Colleagues--
    >
    >I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    >poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    >students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    >grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    >with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    >exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    >international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    >and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    >us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.
    >
    >Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    >English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    >advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    >Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    >ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?
    >
    >Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    >cross-postings.
    >
    >Ruth
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    >Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    >The George Washington University | simple solution--
    >Home: | and it's wrong.
    > (301)593-4938 |
    > 11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    >Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |
    >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > under grads not undergrads
    crammer not grammar
    exacerbated not exascerbated
    Richard Eggleston
    Global Precision
    15751 S.W. 41 St. suite 300
    Davie Florida 33331
    Main: (954) 217-0000
    Office: (954) 217-0010 ext.51
    Fax: (954) 217-0090
    e-mail rich@gpmolds.com


  • 6.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 15:57
    My concern with business writing began many years ago when I worked for the
    Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Management regularly rewrote my
    reports by making active sentences passive and making simple sentences complex
    to show intensity of thought. When I started my academic career, I vowed to
    do something about the poor quality of writing that exists in the business
    world.

    My concern with business writing in the academic world is that "writing across
    the discipline" usually means that business departments hire English teachers
    to teach business writing. Moreover, most of the business writing texts focus
    primarily on how to write letters and academic style reports. While meaning
    no disrespect for what they contribute, teachers and authors do not seem to
    have a gut feeling for the context of management writing.

    The approach I took was to develop an upper level management course that
    simulates what happens in business. The course is set up as business. I'm
    the manager. The students are the management trainees. My boss gives me
    tough management problems to solve (i.e. case studies). Their job as trainees
    is to put together a draft report for my signature. The rule is that nothing
    will leave my office with my signature unless it meets professional writing
    standards. If their draft is not to my standard, it is sent back for
    rewriting. I may even write part of their report if they are too far off
    target.

    Letter writing still plays a part in the course, but my focus is to help
    students think through the management implications of how we communicate. We
    write negative letters in a "positive sandwich" format for a good management
    reason. We write persuasive messages in a AIDA format for a good management
    reason. One critical desired end result is that writing exercises help
    students to see their own styles of management. It is amazing how students
    perceive themselves as Theory Y managers, but their writing reveals a Theory
    X management style.

    This class takes time to teach. Still, it is really satisfying to have
    students tell me how they never realized the weakness of their writing until
    the "boss" professionally edited their work for English structure and
    management style. While I teach many other management courses, upper
    division business writing is the only course where I can really see my
    students develop both as students and as potential managers.

    You might take a look at how the course is constructed by pulling up the
    course website. http://www.nova.edu/~manyak/302sylab.html

    Ruth H. Axelrod wrote:

    > Colleagues--
    >
    > I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    > poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    > students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    > grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    > with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    > exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    > international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    > and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    > us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.
    >
    > Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    > English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    > advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    > Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    > ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?
    >
    > Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    > cross-postings.
    >
    > Ruth
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    > Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    > The George Washington University | simple solution--
    > Home: | and it's wrong.
    > (301)593-4938 |
    > 11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    > Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |
    >


  • 7.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 16:38
    Dear Tim, what about us who can spell but can't type?

    Kim

    At 02:10 PM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
    >Beyond that, this problem is exacerbated by faculty who can't spell, who
    >don't use spell-checking, let alone construct a reasonable sentence; and
    >who also don't use the resources available to improve their writing. The
    >first step must be to heal ourselves. I'll spell check this e-mail before
    >sending it. When we ourselves write poorly, how can we expect our
    >students to do better?
    >
    >I find Strunk & White to be the best guide - and very inexpensive one at
    >that.
    >
    >Check Loyola College here in Baltimore - they do have an extensive writing
    >across the curriculum program. Also, check the writing component in
    >Boston University's 12 credit hour introductory course for Freshmen in
    >their School of Management.
    >
    >Tim Edlund, Morgan State University
    >
    >On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Ruth H. Axelrod wrote:
    >
    >> Colleagues--
    >>
    >> I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    >> poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    >> students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    >> grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    >> with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    >> exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    >> international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    >> and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    >> us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.
    >>
    >> Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    >> English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    >> advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    >> Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    >> ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?
    >>
    >> Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    >> cross-postings.
    >>
    >> Ruth
    >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    >> Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    >> The George Washington University | simple solution--
    >> Home: | and it's wrong.
    >> (301)593-4938 |
    >> 11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    >> Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |
    >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>
    >
    --------------------------------
    Kim Boal
    College of Business Administration
    Texas Tech University
    Lubbock, TX 79409
    (806) 742-2150
    KimBoal@ttu.edu


  • 8.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 16:54
    Dear Colleagues, Several members of this web, both practitoners and
    academics bemoan the quality of writing of business students. (Though I am
    waiting for at least some of you to complain about my typing.) Ruth Axelrod
    asks what we are doing about it. Fortunately, sometimes there are things
    we can do. As chair of the management department, I have the good fortune
    to have the Business Communication folks report to me. Therefore, one of
    the changes we are making here at Tech is to institute a writing lab in the
    College of Business. Thus, in addition to the junior level Business
    Communication course our students take, as of this fall, I will have 4 full
    time writing lab instructors available to students five days a week to help
    them with any and all writing assignments in their business classes. My
    guess is that they will be busy.

    Best, Kim Boal

    At 03:54 PM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
    >At 11:24 AM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
    >>Colleagues--
    >>
    >>I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    >>poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    >>students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    >>grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    >>with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    >>exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    >>international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    >>and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    >>us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.
    >>
    >>Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    >>English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    >>advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    >>Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    >>ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?
    >>
    >>Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    >>cross-postings.
    >>
    >>Ruth
    >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    >>Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    >>The George Washington University | simple solution--
    >>Home: | and it's wrong.
    >> (301)593-4938 |
    >> 11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    >>Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |
    >>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> under grads not undergrads
    > crammer not grammar
    > exacerbated not exascerbated
    >Richard Eggleston
    >Global Precision
    >15751 S.W. 41 St. suite 300
    >Davie Florida 33331
    >Main: (954) 217-0000
    >Office: (954) 217-0010 ext.51
    >Fax: (954) 217-0090
    >e-mail rich@gpmolds.com
    >
    --------------------------------
    Kim Boal
    College of Business Administration
    Texas Tech University
    Lubbock, TX 79409
    (806) 742-2150
    KimBoal@ttu.edu


  • 9.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 17:32
    Kim - that's why I spell check! Tim

    On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Kim Boal wrote:

    > Dear Tim, what about us who can spell but can't type?
    >


  • 10.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 18:40
    Tim,

    My wife teaches high school AP English, among others, in which she
    references Sebranek, Meyer, and Kemper 1996).Write Source (D.C. Heath
    and Company), "Writers, Inc - a student handbook for writing and
    learning," United States. ISBN 0-669-38813-0. although it is
    primarily for younger audiences, it provides an all encompassing
    reference for writing and some aspects of critical thinking.

    While I am not an academic, BSEE and MBA, I empathize with the
    concerns expressed. similar problems occur in high school writing
    classes that are so large forcing reductions in teaching good writing
    skills.

    Chris Poe
    Chris@raven-group.com


  • 11.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 19:53
    Ruth,
    I have 4 books published by Wiley, one by U of M, and three
    self-published.

    When I went to preparatory school, all exams were given using essay
    questions, and over a period of four years, I was under the gun to
    produce a coherent work product.

    There isn't much you can do to substitute for a lack of this, except get
    rid of multiple choice questions and insist on a coherent essay for each
    question.

    "Ruth H. Axelrod" wrote:
    >
    > Colleagues--
    >
    > I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    > poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    > students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    > grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    > with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    > exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    > international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    > and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    > us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.
    >
    > Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    > English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    > advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    > Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    > ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?
    >
    > Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    > cross-postings.
    >
    > Ruth
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    > Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    > The George Washington University | simple solution--
    > Home: | and it's wrong.
    > (301)593-4938 |
    > 11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    > Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    --
    Dick Montgomery, General Manager
    21st Century Co-operative
    Our Mission - "Help You Increase Sales"
    http://www.chemmgrs.com


  • 12.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 20:15
    I believe you have an excellent approach!!!!!

    Terrell Manyak wrote:
    >
    >
    > The approach I took was to develop an upper level management course that
    > simulates what happens in business. The course is set up as business. I'm
    > the manager. The students are the management trainees. My boss gives me
    > tough management problems to solve (i.e. case studies). Their job as trainees
    > is to put together a draft report for my signature. The rule is that nothing
    > will leave my office with my signature unless it meets professional writing
    > standards. If their draft is not to my standard, it is sent back for
    > rewriting. I may even write part of their report if they are too far off
    > target.
    >
    > Letter writing still plays a part in the course, but my focus is to help
    > students think through the management implications of how we communicate. We
    > write negative letters in a "positive sandwich" format for a good management
    > reason. We write persuasive messages in a AIDA format for a good management
    > reason. One critical desired end result is that writing exercises help
    > students to see their own styles of management. It is amazing how students
    > perceive themselves as Theory Y managers, but their writing reveals a Theory
    > X management style.
    >
    > This class takes time to teach. Still, it is really satisfying to have
    > students tell me how they never realized the weakness of their writing until
    > the "boss" professionally edited their work for English structure and
    > management style. While I teach many other management courses, upper
    > division business writing is the only course where I can really see my
    > students develop both as students and as potential managers.
    >
    > You might take a look at how the course is constructed by pulling up the
    > course website. http://www.nova.edu/~manyak/302sylab.html
    >
    > Ruth H. Axelrod wrote:
    >
    > > Colleagues--
    > >
    > > I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex problem of
    > > poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not just our
    > > students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to the
    > > grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from problems
    > > with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    > > exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    > > international students we have here. Faculty from our English Department
    > > and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are joining
    > > us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.
    > >
    > > Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional Freshmen
    > > English courses, to deal with this problem such as discipline-specific
    > > advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency exams?
    > > Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there including
    > > ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?
    > >
    > > Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for any
    > > cross-postings.
    > >
    > > Ruth
    > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > > Ruth H. Axelrod | For every complex
    > > Organizational Behavior & Development | problem, there is a
    > > The George Washington University | simple solution--
    > > Home: | and it's wrong.
    > > (301)593-4938 |
    > > 11372 Baroque Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901 | H. L. Mencken
    > > Mailto: RAxelrod@gwu.edu |
    > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    --
    Dick Montgomery, General Manager
    21st Century Co-operative
    Our Mission - "Help You Increase Sales"
    http://www.chemmgrs.com


  • 13.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-01-1999 22:58
    Kim,

    At the risk of plugging the competition, the University of South carolina has
    also instituted a Business School Writing lab, much like (I think?) yours.
    This may be the way to go. My only concern is that they are still staffed with
    English majors who have little understanding of business.

    William Sharbrough
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    William C. Sharbrough, Ph.D.
    Associate Professor of Business Administration
    The Citadel
    171 Moultrie Street
    Charleston, SC 29409

    Office (843) 953-5164 FAX (843) 953-6764 or Home (843) 763-8512
    E-Mail: SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  • 14.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-02-1999 07:16
    I'm wondering if web-based support is available to
    improve our student's writing skills? I could probably
    use the same service...

    Cheers...

    Bruce

    On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:58:19 -0500 "William Sharbrough
    (2-5164, h-763-8512)" <SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU> wrote:

    > Kim,
    >
    > At the risk of plugging the competition, the University of South carolina has
    > also instituted a Business School Writing lab, much like (I think?) yours.
    > This may be the way to go. My only concern is that they are still staffed with
    > English majors who have little understanding of business.
    >
    > William Sharbrough
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > William C. Sharbrough, Ph.D.
    > Associate Professor of Business Administration
    > The Citadel
    > 171 Moultrie Street
    > Charleston, SC 29409
    >
    > Office (843) 953-5164 FAX (843) 953-6764 or Home (843) 763-8512
    > E-Mail: SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU
    >
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    --
    Bruce Clemens PhD PE
    Room 360 CISAT Tower (A-1)
    Mail Stop Code: 4102
    College of Integrated Science and Technology
    James Madison University
    Harrisonburg, VA 22807
    office: (540)568-8770
    home: (540)289-7755
    fax: (540)568-2768
    internet: clemenbw@jmu.edu
    http://www.isat.jmu.edu/faculty/clemens.htm


  • 15.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-02-1999 09:23
    Dear Bill, I am sure there are many other business schools, and individual
    faculty, who are concerned with student communication skills. All of us,
    individually and collectively, are trying out different approaches to see
    what works best for our students. You are right in saying that my "writing
    lab" instrucctors lack business knowledge. I guess it is up to me to make
    sure that the "content" is appropriate for the assignment. However, I hope
    I will no longer have to write comments like, "not a sentence"; poor word
    choice"; "non sequitur", etc, and can focus on what they said, not how they
    said it.

    >Kim,
    >
    >At the risk of plugging the competition, the University of South carolina has
    >also instituted a Business School Writing lab, much like (I think?) yours.
    >This may be the way to go. My only concern is that they are still staffed
    with
    >English majors who have little understanding of business.
    >
    > William Sharbrough
    >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~
    >William C. Sharbrough, Ph.D.
    >Associate Professor of Business Administration
    >The Citadel
    >171 Moultrie Street
    >Charleston, SC 29409
    >
    >Office (843) 953-5164 FAX (843) 953-6764 or Home (843) 763-8512
    >E-Mail: SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU
    >
    >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~
    >
    --------------------------------
    Kim Boal
    College of Business Administration
    Texas Tech University
    Lubbock, TX 79409
    (806) 742-2150
    KimBoal@ttu.edu


  • 16.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-02-1999 09:27
    Dear Bruce, What a great idea. I will visit with my writing lab
    instructors to see if we can not creat a chat room to handle writing issues
    without requiring the students to physically come to the lab.

    Thanks for the suggestion.

    Kim

    At 07:16 AM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
    >I'm wondering if web-based support is available to
    >improve our student's writing skills? I could probably
    >use the same service...
    >
    >Cheers...
    >
    >Bruce
    >
    >On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:58:19 -0500 "William Sharbrough
    >(2-5164, h-763-8512)" <SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU> wrote:
    >
    >> Kim,
    >>
    >> At the risk of plugging the competition, the University of South
    carolina has
    >> also instituted a Business School Writing lab, much like (I think?) yours.
    >> This may be the way to go. My only concern is that they are still
    staffed with
    >> English majors who have little understanding of business.
    >>
    >> William Sharbrough
    >>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~
    >> William C. Sharbrough, Ph.D.
    >> Associate Professor of Business Administration
    >> The Citadel
    >> 171 Moultrie Street
    >> Charleston, SC 29409
    >>
    >> Office (843) 953-5164 FAX (843) 953-6764 or Home (843) 763-8512
    >> E-Mail: SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU
    >>
    >>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~
    >
    >--
    >Bruce Clemens PhD PE
    >Room 360 CISAT Tower (A-1)
    >Mail Stop Code: 4102
    >College of Integrated Science and Technology
    >James Madison University
    >Harrisonburg, VA 22807
    >office: (540)568-8770
    >home: (540)289-7755
    >fax: (540)568-2768
    >internet: clemenbw@jmu.edu
    >http://www.isat.jmu.edu/faculty/clemens.htm
    >
    --------------------------------
    Kim Boal
    College of Business Administration
    Texas Tech University
    Lubbock, TX 79409
    (806) 742-2150
    KimBoal@ttu.edu


  • 17.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-02-1999 12:30
    By the way, there is a broad range of free materials about business
    writing, located in the topic "Communications Skills" in the Nonprofit
    Managers Library at www.mapnp.org/library
    --
    ======================================================================
    Consultants -- Provide state-of-the-art problem solving
    Associations -- Provide powerful local networks for immediate results
    Trainers and Distance Learning Programs -- Enrich your courses and
    workshops
    Organization Members -- Get ongoing, highly focused advice anywhere in
    the country
    Low-risk solution: Leaders Circles --
    http://www.mapnp.org/library/circles/ldrscrcl.htm
    ======================================================================
    Free Nonprofit Managers' Library at http://www.mapnp.org/library for
    extensive, comprehensive and practical materials
    ======================================================================
    Free, self-directed, results-oriented, 12-course management training
    program at http://www.mapnp.org/library/mgmnt/mba_prog.htm
    ======================================================================


  • 18.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-02-1999 20:28
    Kim,

    We can only hope that we/your writing lab can make some positive impact. I've
    never tested it empirically, but anecdotally, I think that such labs really
    make a difference. I believe ours has.

    William


    >Dear Bill, I am sure there are many other business schools, and individual
    >faculty, who are concerned with student communication skills. All of us,
    >individually and collectively, are trying out different approaches to see
    >what works best for our students. You are right in saying that my "writing
    >lab" instrucctors lack business knowledge. I guess it is up to me to make
    >sure that the "content" is appropriate for the assignment. However, I hope
    >I will no longer have to write comments like, "not a sentence"; poor word
    >choice"; "non sequitur", etc, and can focus on what they said, not how they
    >said it.

    >>Kim,
    >>
    >>At the risk of plugging the competition, the University of South carolina has
    >>also instituted a Business School Writing lab, much like (I think?) yours.
    >>This may be the way to go. My only concern is that they are still staffed
    >with
    >>English majors who have little understanding of business.
    >>
    >> William Sharbrough
    >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >~~~~~
    >>William C. Sharbrough, Ph.D.
    >>Associate Professor of Business Administration
    >>The Citadel
    >>171 Moultrie Street
    >>Charleston, SC 29409
    >>
    >>Office (843) 953-5164 FAX (843) 953-6764 or Home (843) 763-8512
    >>E-Mail: SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU
    >>
    >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >~~~~~
    >>
    >--------------------------------
    >Kim Boal
    >College of Business Administration
    >Texas Tech University
    >Lubbock, TX 79409
    >(806) 742-2150
    >KimBoal@ttu.edu

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    William C. Sharbrough, Ph.D.
    Associate Professor of Business Administration
    The Citadel
    171 Moultrie Street
    Charleston, SC 29409

    Office (843) 953-5164 FAX (843) 953-6764 or Home (843) 763-8512
    E-Mail: SHARBROUGHW@CITADEL.EDU

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  • 19.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-03-1999 12:03
    For those of you looking for support for your efforts in developing
    students' writing skills, please browse www.LRcom.com

    There you'll see an online writing program, complete from beginning to
    end.

    You'll also see ad hoc review services...listed under Editing Services,
    where students can submit pieces of writing for detailed analysis by a
    private consultant.

    Cordially,

    Doug

    --
    Douglas M. Max
    Managing Director
    LR Communication Systems, Inc. http://www.LRcom.com
    139 Dogwood Lane
    Berkeley Heights, NJ 07922-0264
    USA

    Training in business writing and presentation skills. Seminars, distance
    learning/correspondence programs with personal feedback. Online options.
    Editing services. Founded in 1969.

    E-mail for business: mail@LRcom.com
    personal: dmax@bellatlantic.net

    voice @ Work (908) 464-1231
    fax (908) 464-1350


  • 20.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-03-1999 12:35
    Jan,

    Please review this site for possible offering to LEAD Scholars as a lab
    support piece.

    Please give me your thoughts.

    Thanks

    Ed
    Drive On!

    >>> Douglas Max <dmax@BELLATLANTIC.NET> 03/03 12:03 PM >>>
    For those of you looking for support for your efforts in developing
    students' writing skills, please browse www.LRcom.com

    There you'll see an online writing program, complete from beginning to
    end.

    You'll also see ad hoc review services...listed under Editing
    Services,
    where students can submit pieces of writing for detailed analysis by a
    private consultant.

    Cordially,

    Doug

    --
    Douglas M. Max
    Managing Director
    LR Communication Systems, Inc. http://www.LRcom.com
    139 Dogwood Lane
    Berkeley Heights, NJ 07922-0264
    USA

    Training in business writing and presentation skills. Seminars,
    distance
    learning/correspondence programs with personal feedback. Online
    options.
    Editing services. Founded in 1969.

    E-mail for business: mail@LRcom.com
    personal: dmax@bellatlantic.net

    voice @ Work (908) 464-1231
    fax (908) 464-1350


  • 21.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-04-1999 00:51
    [note: I wrote this 2 days ago on this rapidly moving thread, and it's
    taken since then to figure out why it didn't get posted. Apologies.]

    Kim Boal wrote:

    > Dear Tim, what about us who can spell but can't type?
    >
    > Kim
    >
    > At 02:10 PM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
    > >Beyond that, this problem is exacerbated by faculty who can't spell,
    > who
    > >don't use spell-checking, let alone construct a reasonable sentence;
    > and
    > >who also don't use the resources available to improve their writing.
    > The
    > >first step must be to heal ourselves. I'll spell check this e-mail
    > before
    > >sending it. When we ourselves write poorly, how can we expect our
    > >students to do better?
    > >
    > >I find Strunk & White to be the best guide - and very inexpensive one

    > at
    > >that.
    > >
    > >Check Loyola College here in Baltimore - they do have an extensive
    > writing
    > >across the curriculum program. Also, check the writing component in
    > >Boston University's 12 credit hour introductory course for Freshmen
    > in
    > >their School of Management.
    > >
    > >Tim Edlund, Morgan State University
    > >
    > >On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Ruth H. Axelrod wrote:
    > >
    > >> Colleagues--
    > >>
    > >> I am chairing a task force charged with addressing the complex
    > problem of
    > >> poor writing skills of our business school undergrads. It's not
    > just our
    > >> students, of course; the problem is university-wide and extends to
    > the
    > >> grad students as well. It is also multi-layered, ranging from
    > problems
    > >> with grammer and usage to structure and style. The problem is
    > >> exascerbated by, but by no means confined to, the large number of
    > >> international students we have here. Faculty from our English
    > Department
    > >> and staff from the Writing Center, which offers peer tutoring, are
    > joining
    > >> us in the effort--they have already been looking into it.
    > >>
    > >> Have any of your schools taken steps, apart from the traditional
    > Freshmen
    > >> English courses, to deal with this problem such as
    > discipline-specific
    > >> advanced courses ("writing across the curriculum") or competency
    > exams?
    > >> Do you know of any model programs or other resources out there
    > including
    > >> ways of evaluating the problem or the interventions?
    > >>
    > >> Any insights or referrals would be most welcome. My apologies for
    > any
    > >> cross-postings.
    > >>
    > >> Ruth

    If you promise not to flame me, or check my grammar, may I jump into
    the middle?

    As I read the comments following the one above, I realized that my case
    was
    very specific - I could deal with 10 people per lab, max. of 60
    reports/week.
    Enough load in itself, but certainly not 500 students to deal with. But
    it
    seems almost self-evident, that if you do not have students write
    something
    which is reviewed for effectiveness, they won't learn how to do it. The

    closer the review, and the student desire for accomplishment, the less
    effective the effort. More comments at the end of the personal
    experience below:

    Having aided engineering UG's to learn (something?) for a decade +, and
    listened to many business people tell me what they want in a recent
    grad, I am aware that writing is not the strong suit of many students.
    I've also been told that they (collectively) can't make a public
    presentation, either. But writing is not the core issue, I think.

    The complaint is not restricted by education level (UG vs. Grad), nor
    national origin. My students were mostly middle class, American born.

    Any technically trained individual has the problem of communicating
    their 'neat stuff' to others, even when most of the speakers aren't
    totally sure what is
    being said. Students have a doubly hard time, because they start
    assuming they don't know much of anything (using their instructor as a
    standard), and are just figuring it out for themselves. They don't know

    what parts of their technology (which could be finance, for ex.) are
    obvious, and what parts are not. They hardly know what parts are
    central, and what are secondary, to the results they wish to discuss.

    So let's give them some practice. For my students' lab reports, which
    they need to write about 1/week at first, they must learn how to write a

    decent abstract, aimed at themselves/their roommate as of the previous
    Sept. I have a short format abstract which proved itself in a number of

    firms over the years. A student who can fit that format can write a
    decent, understood, communicative report for management. Well, the
    first 3 sentences will be understood, which is enough at this point.

    The hard part, for many of them, was to get the logic down - the
    sequence from 'problem' to 'solutions.' And that in a prepared lab! If

    the logic is missing, a more complex problem will remain just that - for

    everyone.

    If they write a project report, they should use the abstract format to
    open with. Helps the whole report's organization, too. If they had to
    do this for every class, it would make the instructors' lives easier, as

    well.

    When they make a verbal presentation, I had my students use the same
    format to open their talk. They could get practice in keeping a 2
    minute spiel in their heads, ready to let fly when visiting firemen come

    around. Feedback and in-situ (on-the-job?) observations indicated that
    such preparation was a major plus for them.

    I think all students can manage this level of organization, with
    practice. Without typing, which is an issue for many. If given
    verbally, without spelling checks, too.

    I once heard a school President urge that all students in all upper
    classes have at least one required opportunity to speak in front of each

    class for 3 minutes. This way he could claim to employers that our
    students were capable of speaking in public. The irony was that I never

    saw a student with difficulties on this assignment (with 2 exceptions)
    on a topic of concern to themselves (like a project). My students, in
    the main, acquitted themselves well.

    So if the students get a little practice, then they do well at what we
    are
    told they need more of, because they are so poor at 'communicating.'
    Come again?

    The thread in the last 2 days suggests that the issue is one of personal
    experience - practice. I can't imagine what it would be like handling
    500 students in a single lecture. My hat is off to those of you who do
    this. Strictly 1-way communication, surely.

    What I think future employers want is graduates who can communicate. By
    which may be meant transmit information to managers, and perhaps to
    co-workers and subordinates. It could mean transmit information the
    boss wants to hear, in ways the boss wants to hear it, but I leave that
    to the organizational psychologists.

    We can agree that listening to a lecture, even with notes, will not
    instill the skills necessary to communicate, no? then the student must
    practice it, with feedback on the trials. Whether we have them write a
    great deal of material (1/week for 10 weeks for each lab, 30 weeks/year
    for each class), with relatively little feedback, or have them write a
    few papers, with close discussion of the results, as sometimes happens
    at Alverno College in Milwaukee, may be an interesting research question
    in effectiveness and efficiency. But either one is likely to produce
    decent writers, if they have something to write about.

    I found that doing a detailed dry run of an oral presentation, in
    preparation for a senior project report, worked wonders for the student
    with a weak organization. Some of them should have written the report
    first, to figure out how to do the work to find the result. [Heresy!
    but it helped clarify jumbled heads.]

    Whether a computer review of a written paper, as some have suggested in
    this thread, would provide the close feedback, I can't say. At least it
    is some feedback. Can it detect and point out errors in presentation
    logic? I hope so, else reliance upon the computer will produce
    grammatically correct, well spelled mish-mash. Maybe the professor
    could have the computer review the spelling & grammar, etc., then look
    at what is left. But don't students check these things anyway? Oh.

    Enough,
    Jay
    --
    Jay Warner
    Principal Scientist
    Warner Consulting, Inc.
    4444 North Green Bay Road
    Racine, WI 53404-1216
    USA

    Ph: (414) 634-9100
    FAX: (414) 681-1133
    email: quality@a2q.com
    web: http://www.a2q.com

    Power to the data!


  • 22.  Student Writing Problems

    Posted 03-04-1999 14:09
    Tim,
    Strunk's style guide is very inexpensive indeed:
    http://www.columbia.edu/acis/bartleby/strunk/
    Best regards,
    Charlie Wankel
    listmaster mg-ed-dv
    St. John's University--New York City
    wankelc@stjohns.edu

    Tim Edlund at Morgan State University in Baltimore wrote:
    I find Strunk & White to be the best guide - and very inexpensive one at
    that.