Is "Education for life" the same as "education for landing your first job"?
If so, let's get rid of Shakespeare in the curriculum, Dante, Hemingway,
... to name just a few items in a useless skill set!!
At 12:29 AM 10/31/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:29:26 -0500
>Reply-To: Management Education and Development Discussion
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MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
>Sender: Management Education and Development Discussion
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>From: Automatic digest processor <
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>Subject: MG-ED-DV Digest - 29 Oct 2001 to 30 Oct 2001 (#2001-207)
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>
>There are 3 messages totalling 242 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. ARTICLE EXCERPT: FIGHTING GRADE INFLATION (2)
> 2. How students should submit there papers: As urls?
>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:39:11 -0800
>From: Conna Condon <
gandolf@cyberverse.com>
>Subject: Re: ARTICLE EXCERPT: FIGHTING GRADE INFLATION
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>
>Oh, thank you so much for bringing up this term. I have always wanted an
>explanation of what it is supposed to mean.
>
>My daughter just finished her degree with top honors and recognition at one
>of the oldest and most presitiguous of the American Universities ... a
>hallowed place, indeed. Her degree is in Anthropology, specializing in
>folklore, an area her University has an excellent reputation.
>
>Upon graduation her newly acquired college skillset resulted in her being
>less prepared for the realities of life than she was when she began ... and
>many thousands of dollars in debt. So, exactly what life she being prepared
>for in her ivy league style program? What was supposed to be the return on
>investment for her college expenses and years of hard work? What is any
>education that does not lead to an improved ability to support ones self and
>family supposed to be returning on the investment?
>
>I was very glad when our high school system started asking the really
>salient questions. If a student said a degree in English the question was
>further asked: In order to go do what ... the required courses would be
>different for English leading to Journalism vs English leading to teaching
>English.
>
>I am a self-confessed business educator. My goal is to educate people to
>become strategic business leaders from whatever their role within an
>organization. The community college or trade tech schools don't serve this
>market or achieve this objective. Solid business programs within good
>universities do. Faculty who understand that theory is nice, but reality is
>where business happens are essential to a good program.
>
>I believe in performance measures because business leaders have to live with
>them in their future careers ...personal, team, and organizational. If
>all other measures are stripped away, they will still be measured by the
>viablity of their company. As Drucker said .. serve the customer or die.
>(well, not in those exact words).
>
>
>"Whatever happened to the notion that the University was to educate people
>for life? "
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Carr" <
bcarr@wfubmc.edu>
>To: <
MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
>Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 11:08 AM
>Subject: Re: ARTICLE EXCERPT: FIGHTING GRADE INFLATION
>
>
> > Putting the issue of grades on the back burner for a moment, I would
> > like a clarification in the argument.
> >
> > Implicit in your remarks (and many others), seems to be the assertion
> > that the purpose of Higher Education is to train workers for the
> > workplace. For the purpose of this thread, are we to accept, as fact,
> > that the purpose of the University (Higher Education) is to cater to the
> > needs of the workplace?
> >
> > Whatever happened to the notion that the University was to educate
> > people for life? Didn't we develop the community college system and
> > technical schools to train workers for the workplace? Have we blurred
> > the distinction? Have we given up on the noble task of educating for
> > life? Have we sold out to the commercial interests?
> >
> > Now, on the issue of grades. It seems to me that the initial discontent
> > over grades came from the other Institutions of Higher Learning. Was
> > this professional (or commercial) jealousy? Are there some criteria
> > that all these institutions abide by? Are we using the same standards
> > to measure performance/outcomes? Or has the grade itself become the
> > standard--i.e., because the student got a B, he/she ought to be able to
> > do level B work. This last point seems rather backwards, but
> > unfortunately, that's how the argument seems to be progressing.
> >
> > Phillip Rutherford wrote:
> > >
> > > Rao Kowtha makes a lot of sense with what he says and rather than give
>him
> > > his counter-argument I'd like to make a suggestion as to why his points
>come
> > > crashing so loudly home.
> > >
> > > Having only been involved at the under- and post-graduate level for five
> > > years with twenty odd years at vocational level before that, I'm not
>privvy
> > > to what goes on in every higher education institution. But, from my
> > > experience having working with universities and business colleges here
>and
> > > overseas for the past 10-12 years I can state that many of them are
> > > responsible for their own difficulties because of the incessant belief
>that
> > > what employers want out of graduates is a qualification. This belief is
> > > reinforced by the fact that most HE/FE institutions spend a great deal
>of
> > > their time advertising the quality of their faculties and qualifications
>and
> > > nothing else.
> > >
> > > We have a very dumb car add out here. It pushes the 'Zoom Zoom' appeal
>but
> > > says nothing about the car itself. I can't even remember what kind of
>car it
> > > is beyond that fact that it 'Zoom Zooms'. Many universities and
>institutes
> > > of further education do the same thing. The advertising would have us
> > > believe that all business students should strive for an MBA, and an MBA
> > > from, say Harvard or Kellog, is better than one from the University of
> > > Vanuatu. Well, I'm sorry to say this isn't true for the people of
>Vanuatu
> > > where while their university is the best one for them, an MBA isn't in
> > > particular high demand. In fact a report not long ago stated that the
> > > majority of MBAs in Australia go to the public service on graduation,
>and a
> > > similar one not long ago in the US stated that most MBAs go to high
>paying
> > > consultancy firms. Why aren't they being paid top dollar in private
> > > enterprise? Because most employers don't want qualifications - they want
> > > people who can do the job.
> > >
> > > Sure, some employers will say that they want qualified people, but there
>are
> > > so many qualified people out there that a qualification is usually used
>to
> > > short-list applicants, not give any one the job. When two hundred
> > > applications come in the person sorting them (not usually anyone
>involved in
> > > the final interview or deliberation either) needs something to sort out
>who
> > > goes on to the next stage and who doesn't. And it doesn't matter how
>highly
> > > qualified the final group are, if they don't relate to the interviewer/s
>or
> > > don't appear to be able to grasp the company dream then they're out the
> > > door.
> > >
> > > The only way we, the educators, can hope to put our institution ahead of
>the
> > > pack is to stop telling the world what we are going to give (except, of
> > > course, in the areas of high research and architecture), and start
>listening
> > > to what employers want.
> > >
> > > A few years ago I was asked to facilitate the solution to a problem a
>small
> > > town in the centre of England was facing. The problem was one of high
> > > unemployment amongst school leavers, despite the plethora of jobs
>available.
> > > My solution? I brought the local townspeople into the school and had
>them
> > > work with the teachers to develop a curriculum that integrated the last
>two
> > > years (I preferred three but two was all I could get) of school with the
> > > first few years of work life. This wasn't based on any fancy education
> > > program (such as in England, the GNVQs, or in Australia the Key
> > > Competencies), it was based on common sense and mutual understandings.
>And
> > > while I didn't see any more of this program beyond its first year it
> > > appeared to be on track for solving one of the worst problems most
> > > communities have in the world today.
> > >
> > > I am continuing to run a similar program at higher education level in
>one
> > > particular profession and after four years have had a 100% success rate
>with
> > > job placement - at times even higher (ie, people have gone in for one
>job
> > > and ended up getting a better one).
> > >
> > > Why can't we, with all our collective common sense and perceived
>education,
> > > do the same within our communities? Get rid of this outdated notion that
> > > communities, employers and the nation as a whole are going to be
>satisfied
> > > with what we are prepared to give them ("They can have any colour as
>long as
> > > it is black!") and start looking more closely at what they want. Then,
>and
> > > only then, will we find out how much regard is given to the courses we
>run
> > > and the students we turn out, and no more will we need to worry about
> > > inflating or deflating our grades - grades won't matter a toss.
> > >
> > > Phil Rutherford
> >
> >
>Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:05:15 -0500
>From: Charles Wankel <
cxx@bellatlantic.net>
>Subject: How students should submit there papers: As urls?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I came across this student project report and offer it to you as an
>example to provide your students of how they should submit there reports
>to you:
>http://ecommerce.vanderbilt.edu/Student.Projects/filling.gaps.online.ret
>ailing/default.htm
>
>Cybercollegially,
>Charles Wankel
>Mg-ed-dv List Director
>
wankelc@stjohns.edu
>Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:57:34 -0500
>From: Bob Carr <
bcarr@wfubmc.edu>
>Subject: Re: ARTICLE EXCERPT: FIGHTING GRADE INFLATION
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>It seems that high grades don't get you everything .... at least not at
>some places. The BBC ran the following earlier today
>
>"A Cambridge college has defended its decision
> not to offer a place to a student who gained
> some of the best Higher results in Scotland.
>
> Gary Sinclair who attended Fortrose Academy
> on the Black Isle, failed to get a place at
> Cambridge despite securing straight A-grades
> in his Higher, Sixth Year Studies and Advanced
> Higher exams in five subjects.
>
> Mr Sinclair, 18, accused
> Magdalene College of
> elitism, saying his state
> school background had
> played a part in the
> decision."
>
>For the rest of the story go to:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_1627000/1627804.stm
Prof. Arieh A. Ullmann
School of Management
Binghamton University
Binghamton, NY 13902-6015
Tel. 607.777.6858
Fax 607.777.4422