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  • 1.  Relegating Teaching Responsibility To Students

    Posted 11-30-1998 13:21
    Gentle Readers:

    Edryce seems to suggest that the job of educators is to teach methods of
    learning rather than content, for no educator's view of knowledge can
    (apparently) take precedent over another person's. This represents a classical
    argument over teaching methods: specifically traditional versus more modern
    methods. There is a strong taste of postmodernism in the "modern" view/method.
    (I sympathize with postmodern views--but it's wrongly applied here.)

    Traditional teaching methods focus on what cognitive scientists have
    termed domain-specific knowledge. More process-oriented (and more modern)
    teaching methods have tended to teach procedural knowledge (how to learn and
    where to find data). Traditional teaching has tended to teach models and their
    rigorous application: viz., what are data and what are the best ways to
    organize them and understand them?

    The research in cognitive science--if it has had anything at all important to
    say about learning--soundly contradicts the more process oriented teaching
    perspectives. To learn about any subject at all, a person has to build on
    previous knowledge (viz., domain-specific information) which in turn makes more
    learning possible (hence the critical distinction between naive, novice, and
    expert subjects). Contrarily, learning in one knowledge domain rarely
    significantly aids or accelerates the ability to learn in other knowledge
    domains. The ability to read physics, let's say, does not lead to increased
    abilities to read and understand Shakespeare, American History, or Management
    because each subject has its own vocabularies and concepts. That is, knowledge
    games are fundamentally language games.

    While one domain's knowledge may assist one to investigate and understand
    another domain's knowledge (because no knowledge domain exists
    completely independently of others), one must begin with a competent working
    knowledge of at least one domain. The point of higher learning is not to
    cultivate the habit of thinking of what we are doing, but to extend the number
    of operations which we can perform without thinking about them (a point made
    later by more than a few cognitive scientists--and Alfred Whitehead).

    This means that students must first learn rules well; then they must learn how
    to apply the rules; then--and only then--may they fruitfully go beyond or break
    the rules. Breaking the rules of any knowledge domain (or learning how to break
    them and when) is a clear sign of transcendence, which is what higher and higher
    learning and education is all about. It is how grade schoolers matriculate to
    secondary levels, and so forth to university levels of knowledge.

    I suspect that many of today's teachers want to use procedural teaching methods
    because it is easier and because the world has become less of a certain and
    well-defined place than it once was. Students have become much more cynical and
    wise to the subtleties of authority and knowledge.

    Well, so what? No one ever said that teaching was supposed to be easy.

    The difficulty of teaching in today's postmodern world is no reason why any
    teacher should relegate his or her responsibility and put the burden of teaching
    on students' shoulders.

    I argue that we will add considerably more value to our students lives if we
    teach the fundamentals first and make sure they really get it. I don't
    think we've been doing that very well.

    There is very poor empirical analysis to show that teaching *processes* have
    enhanced the performance of naive or novice subjects in knowledge-specific
    domains.

    Cheers to all,


    M.

    Michael Levenhagen
    High-Technology Strategy & General Management
    College of Business, Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA


  • 2.  Relegating Teaching Responsibility To Students

    Posted 12-01-1998 05:55
    Mike at California Poly wrote:
    > Edryce seems to suggest that the job of educators is to
    > teach methods of learning rather than content....
    > Traditional teaching methods focus on ... domain-specific knowledge.
    > More process-oriented ... teach procedural knowledge (how
    > to learn and where to find data). The research in cognitive science
    > ... contradicts the more process oriented teaching perspectives.
    > To learn about any subject at all, a person has to build on
    > previous knowledge (viz., domain-specific information).

    McLuhan said "the medium is the message." (See the first page of at
    <http://designwise.net/>). How to learn is what the subject of management
    should largely be today. That is, the procedure of discovering knowledge is
    to a large extent what the domain-specific knowledge is today. Having
    classes in teams sally forth into the Net to locate management information
    themselves and under the guidance of an instructor develop analytical acumen
    to turn that information into action is the stuff of the most useful
    courses.

    Cybercollegially,
    Charlie Wankel
    St. John's University--New York City
    mg-ed-dv listmaster


  • 3.  Relegating Teaching Responsibility To Students

    Posted 12-01-1998 11:06
    Michael Levenhagen wrote in part:
    <<...The point of higher learning is not to cultivate the habit of thinking
    of what we are doing, but to extend the number of operations which we
    can perform without thinking about them ...>>

    Must the purpose of higher learning be one of the other? Can't the
    purpose include both thinking about what we are doing -and- actually
    doing it to? The ability to do lots of 'operations' without thinking about
    them sounds to me like a computer, not a person. While there is surely
    something to be said for the ability to work without having to think
    through each and every infinitesimal element, isn't there also something
    to be said for reflecting on what we're doing and thinking about doing it
    differently or more efficiently or more effectively.

    Later he wrote:
    <<...This means that students must first learn rules well; then they must
    learn how
    to apply the rules; then--and only then--may they fruitfully go beyond or
    break
    the rules. Breaking the rules of any knowledge domain (or learning how to
    break
    them and when) is a clear sign of transcendence, which is what higher and
    higher
    learning and education is all about....>>

    In one spot higher learning is about more operations, and in another spot
    its
    about transcendence. I think that I ultimately find the second definition
    more
    appealing. Yes, higher education is about learning but it's also about
    learning to learn even more. This list is, after all, about the education
    of the
    managers / leaders of our organizations. For our organizations to 'work
    better', the people within them must continue to learn, and those people
    must ensure that the organizations learn along with them.

    This calls to mind a comment from Stanley Hauerwas (in "Discipleship as
    a Craft, Church as a Disciplined Community" inThe Grey Wolf Annual Ten
    (1993):
    "What must be said is that most students in our society do no have minds
    well enough trained to think. A central pedagogical task is to tell
    students
    that their problem is that they do not have minds worth making up."

    Michael A
    -- Michael Ayers
    mailto:mbayers@mmm.com Voice (651) 733-5690 FAX (651) 737-7718
    IT Educ & Perf Svcs 3M Center 224-2NE-02 PO Box 33224 St Paul MN
    55133-3224
    Sometimes the right question is, 'Are we asking the right question?'
    Ideas contained in this note represent the author's opinions and
    do not intentionally represent the positions of anyone else in this
    galaxy.


  • 4.  Relegating Teaching Responsibility To Students

    Posted 12-01-1998 13:00
    I came in on this discussion late -- but isn't abstract thought of a higher
    order. Some of my students appear more like computers themselves -- they ace
    the multiple choice exams (I don't give these anymore!) because they can
    memorize incredible amounts of information. However, they subsequently bomb
    when it comes to essay questions for which I ordinarily put forth "common
    sense" sayings and then ask them to defend or refute based on material.
    [Example: "Birds of a feather flock together" and "opposites attract" -- which
    is it, why, and what does this mean for the diversity philosophy a company
    adopts?]

    Isn't creative thinking and the ability to question WHY our organizations,
    systems, societies work of greater value to progress in general than mere
    memorization of sets of rules...

    Just a few thoughts...
    Sandi
    SUNY Binghamton


  • 5.  Relegating Teaching Responsibility To Students

    Posted 12-02-1998 09:12
    I agree.

    I usually give situations to the students to respond to and have received
    positive feedback from the students on this type exam -- that happened
    yesterday at work, that really made me think, we're facing that situation
    right now, etc.

    Multiple choice and true/false tests are not what management is about --
    problem solving is and until we can get that across to the new students, I
    think we are failing as teachers.

    It, however, requires us to grade our own papers, take more time to determine
    a good response to the situations and accept multiple solutions to the same
    question if they are well thought out and reasoned.

    Thanks,

    Ted Rosen
    George Washington University
    School of Business and Public Management


  • 6.  Relegating Teaching Responsibility To Students

    Posted 12-02-1998 11:35
    Ted Rosen makes a very good point --- what are we teaching the material
    for???? It's our job to ensure that they can SOLVE PROBLEMS --- think --- be
    innovative --- know what information is critical to pay attention to, etc....

    I think we could consider our mission as teachers the same as the trainer in a
    wide variety of situations -- we are preparing future members of the
    workforce. As far as multiple choice exams go --- can you imagine going to a
    lawyer for counsel and allowing them a 20% chance of correctly choosing the
    development of your case --- they're not allowed to reference their books and
    they must give you an answer on the spot. Or, an engineer who is give a 20%
    chance of choosing the correct stress levels for materials in the construction
    of a bridge. I don't know about you, but that kind of scares me and really
    sheds some interesting doubt on the whole system now in use.

    Sandi


  • 7.  Relegating Teaching Responsibility To Students

    Posted 12-02-1998 13:22
    I agree that we ned to teach students how to solve problems. But first
    students need the tools--learn how--to identify the problem(s). Too much
    of mgmt education involves presenting a specific problem that requires
    solving with some specific technique.
    My model goes something like this:

    1. Identify the problem
    2. Select a model/technique for solving the problem/
    3. Select and analyze alternatives
    4. Draw conclusions
    4. Communicate results in an understandable manner.

    This is oversimplified, but I think you get the idea.
    Dick

    Dick Dailey
    Department of Management
    University of Montana
    Missoula, MT 59812-1216 BIG SKY COUNTRY!!
    406 243 6644/Voice-Office
    406 549 6876/Voice-Home Office
    406 243 2086/Fax
    rtd@selway.umt.edu


  • 8.  Relegating Teaching Responsibility To Students

    Posted 12-02-1998 16:43
    Dick Dailey's model is similar to traditional models in most textbooks save
    for explicitly recognizing step two. (There are often a lot of political
    and value judgments hidden in the choice of which technique to use to solve
    the problem).

    I would like to suggest an additional step after number one and before
    Dick's second step.

    Step 2, define what a good solution would look like.

    Most models would implicitly include this in the alternative evaluation
    phase. However, my experience is that when you wait until this phase to
    define a good solution, people are really arguing about my solution versus
    your solution. They will argue for those criteria that fit their solution
    and against criteria that would favor an alternative solution. One way to
    avoid this is to have the decision participants address the solution
    criteria issue before they start to search for alternatives, much less
    evaluate them.

    While on the subject of decision making, alternatives and solutions, I
    would like to pass along a little bit of wisdom that I learned from Alan
    Filley and Andre Delbecq.

    Alan taught me that solutions come in three shades. Ones that were clearly
    acceptable, ones that were clearly unacceptable, and ones that were not
    unacceptable. This third grey area is often the best we can realistically
    hope for in our search for win/win outcomes.

    Andre taught me that in addition to bounded rationality, folks who were
    involved in generating alternatives needed to be sensitive to the notion of
    bounded discretion. Some alternatives, no matter how technically perfect,
    lie outside the bounds of acceptability because they violate some norm,
    value, ethos, etc. Folks who move between cultures often are blind to the
    implicit bounds of discretion that any solution must adhere to. Too often,
    they think that what is acceptable to them (both technically and
    politically, thought they often focus explicitly only on the technical
    aspects because they implicitly know what is beyond the bounds of
    discretion for their own culture) would be acceptable elsewhere as long as
    it solves the problem.

    Regards, Kim Boal






    At 11:21 AM 12/2/98 -0700, you wrote:
    >I agree that we ned to teach students how to solve problems. But first
    >students need the tools--learn how--to identify the problem(s). Too much
    >of mgmt education involves presenting a specific problem that requires
    >solving with some specific technique.
    >My model goes something like this:
    >
    >1. Identify the problem
    >2. Select a model/technique for solving the problem/
    >3. Select and analyze alternatives
    >4. Draw conclusions
    >4. Communicate results in an understandable manner.
    >
    >This is oversimplified, but I think you get the idea.
    >Dick
    >
    >Dick Dailey
    >Department of Management
    >University of Montana
    >Missoula, MT 59812-1216 BIG SKY COUNTRY!!
    >406 243 6644/Voice-Office
    >406 549 6876/Voice-Home Office
    >406 243 2086/Fax
    >rtd@selway.umt.edu
    >
    --------------------------------
    Kim Boal
    College of Business Administration
    Texas Tech University
    Lubbock, TX 79409
    (806) 742-2150
    KimBoal@ttu.edu