Discussion: View Thread

Learning has to do with a) gaining knowledge or skills or b) changing behavior
based on experience or conditioning. I don't exactly agree with Edryce Reynolds
about learners "deciding" to learn, because animals down to microbes
demonstrably learn new ways of doing things (getting to food through a maze)
and I don't understand where "deciding" fits in. But I would agree that human
(and small mammals) who decide NOT to learn can be very stubborn and not
change. Between actively seeking to learn (most of us on this list) and
actively resisters, there are is a middle ground of passive learning that is
might be characterized as continual adaptation to a changing environment.

While many teachers/educators profess to "impart" knowledge, I knew two great
ones who simply asked questions and listened to what I call active seekers and
didn't have a clue about the subject content. One was English lit scholar who
nothing about mathematics and science, but taught students who needed help by
listening to them explain things and prompting them to articulate their
thoughts. Inevitably and quickly they made great progress in the subject. The
other was a woman who tutored mathematics, although she had limited schooling
(born in 1890's) and had not one clue about anything beyond basic arithmetic.
She said, "I had no idea what calculus was or what any of the words meant, I
just asked him to show his work and tell me what he was stuck on. After he
started telling me, he would usually stop in mid sentence and say, got it! and
then move on to the next problem. That went on for four years in all the math,
science, and engineering courses and I still don't know anything about any of
that, but he got straight A's and graduated with honors".

Lastly, an education professor once noted that students are always learning,
but not necessarily what you are teaching. When I have observed teachers in
classrooms, I have seen students learning how to game their grades, game the
assignments, game the teacher (e.g., if you ask X, she will go off the subject
for a half hour), and learn socially desirable answers and buzz-words. So the
real challenge in classroom teaching is to get students more interested in
learning the knowledge and skills that you offer than in the less desirable
(from the teacher's perspective) other kinds of learning.

--
Prof. John L. Naman naman+@pitt.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~naman

John,

As usual a very coherent and elegantly powerful commentary.

Thank you.

Ed
Drive On!

>>> "John L. Naman" <naman+@PITT.EDU> 05/06 7:32 AM >>>
Learning has to do with a) gaining knowledge or skills or b) changing
behavior
based on experience or conditioning. I don't exactly agree with Edryce
Reynolds
about learners "deciding" to learn, because animals down to microbes
demonstrably learn new ways of doing things (getting to food through a
maze)
and I don't understand where "deciding" fits in. But I would agree that
human
(and small mammals) who decide NOT to learn can be very stubborn and
not
change. Between actively seeking to learn (most of us on this list)
and
actively resisters, there are is a middle ground of passive learning
that is
might be characterized as continual adaptation to a changing
environment.

While many teachers/educators profess to "impart" knowledge, I knew two
great
ones who simply asked questions and listened to what I call active
seekers and
didn't have a clue about the subject content. One was English lit
scholar who
nothing about mathematics and science, but taught students who needed
help by
listening to them explain things and prompting them to articulate
their
thoughts. Inevitably and quickly they made great progress in the
subject. The
other was a woman who tutored mathematics, although she had limited
schooling
(born in 1890's) and had not one clue about anything beyond basic
arithmetic.
She said, "I had no idea what calculus was or what any of the words
meant, I
just asked him to show his work and tell me what he was stuck on. After
he
started telling me, he would usually stop in mid sentence and say, got
it! and
then move on to the next problem. That went on for four years in all
the math,
science, and engineering courses and I still don't know anything about
any of
that, but he got straight A's and graduated with honors".

Lastly, an education professor once noted that students are always
learning,
but not necessarily what you are teaching. When I have observed
teachers in
classrooms, I have seen students learning how to game their grades,
game the
assignments, game the teacher (e.g., if you ask X, she will go off the
subject
for a half hour), and learn socially desirable answers and buzz-words.
So the
real challenge in classroom teaching is to get students more interested
in
learning the knowledge and skills that you offer than in the less
desirable
(from the teacher's perspective) other kinds of learning.

--
Prof. John L. Naman naman+@pitt.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~naman

This is a public reply to a private email on the topic. It seems relevant to
share with everyone. The question was:
> Now, can we tell the difference between the student taught by the untaught, and those for whom this procedure doesn't work? OR, how can we entice students into becoming those
'taught' students?

1. You are asking how to select or entice the students. My course is required,
so neither the students nor I get any choice, other than their seeking the
degree in the first place.
2. Maybe part of the answer is to better select or entice the "tutorers".
Incentives like money, status, non-cash benefits come to mind.
3. How to tell active seekers from others (passive, resistant): One rough cut
is to make make something optional (project, materials) and see how far they
run. Actions speak louder than words.
4. What I claim, and try hard to practice, is that people become involved when
you "sell" skills, knowledge, and education. I try hard to show excitement
about what I teach (this is really good stuff, this is really interesting, I
hope you will like our topic tonight, because I think that it is really
important and neat stuff) and a little bit of self-interested benefit (this
module is new topic that is going to be big in the next few years, so you will
be ahead of the crowd; be sure to mention that you have studied this when you
interview for a job; some people have made a lot of money doing what we have
been talking about, you can to if you really dig into it). If and when the
passive and resistant students see others get interested and actually attend to
the subject matter, they become more active learners and start seeing and
seeking to learn more.
5. It may be sound trite, but every human is born an active, seeking, learner.
I assume that many have been turned off or turned around somewhere along the
way. So part of my job is to encourage and cheer along those who have been
discouraged, to try to get them back on track, build confidence, etc. In
addition to the obvious person to person coaching (mostly positive feedback in
class and margin notes on papers), it seems to help to point out that there is
a "safety net" in the classroom that they won't have in the real world, so now
is the time to try to overcome weaknesses, shyness, assertiveness, etc. and
speak out and participate in class discussions, etc. Once they get active as
learners, the "teaching" job gets easier.
--
Prof. John L. Naman naman+@pitt.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~naman

John L. Naman wrote:

> This is a public reply to a private email on the topic. It seems
> relevant to
> share with everyone. The question was:
> > Now, can we tell the difference between the student taught by the
> untaught, and those for whom this procedure doesn't work? OR, how can
> we entice students into becoming those
> 'taught' students?
>
> 1. You are asking how to select or entice the students. My course is
> required,
> so neither the students nor I get any choice, other than their seeking
> the
> degree in the first place.

I found that 'required' courses are those which the faculty, plus
accrediting bodies, feel is necessary for adequate performance by a
degreed person, i.e., what they say they want. Sometimes I would assign
them to interview a graduate professional (in their major, preferably)
to see whether the material had ever been used, and how. I was
fortunate in that respect. Most students came back with slightly shell
shocked expressions at the intensity with which the professional had
admonished them to understand the course material, and renewed senses of
material-final job relationships.

The assignment also (a) got them talking with a real adult, and (b) gave
them a contact & possible role model. they were often surprised at how
easy it all was to get the information they needed.

And if the results are not as positive as mine were, then maybe that is
Nature's way of saying the course is not understaood or not used. You
have some changes to make, then.

Jay
--
Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA

Ph: (414) 634-9100
FAX: (414) 681-1133
email: quality@a2q.com
web: http://www.a2q.com

Power to the data!