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Richard Montgomery observes...

>...I lost 4 gig of information last year and have been
>very leary ever since. "The only sure method is daily backup."

Actually, there is at least one other method. I use it and I convinced my
crew at work to use it, too.

"Keep no data on your computer's hard drive."

I use a 100 meg Zip drive to store my files. Only operating programs (e.g,
Win98, MS Office, Netscape, AOL and so on) are on the hard drive. Such
drives can be external (as we use) or internal (as will be the case with my
next computer). All told, I have more than a dozen such disks. Whatever
inconvenience that might seem to present is, to me, more than offset by a
sense of security and the outright portability of the data.

A couple of accompanying habits are helpful as well:

I only insert the Zip disk fully into the drive when I'm actually working
on a file.

I keep my virus software (McAfee) current via weekly updates and whenever
McAfee sends me a notice. (Several infected files have come my way; none
have gotten through and no damage has been done.)

Thus, worst case for me is that I will have to reinstall some software but
I won't ever lose any data. (Consider that an individual-level instance of
risk management.)
--

Regards,

Fred Nickols
Distance Consulting "Assistance at A Distance"
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

I certainly endorse Mr Nickols suggestions.

Fred Nickols wrote:

> Richard Montgomery observes...
>
> >...I lost 4 gig of information last year and have been
> >very leary ever since. "The only sure method is daily backup."
>
> Actually, there is at least one other method. I use it and I convinced my
> crew at work to use it, too.
>
> "Keep no data on your computer's hard drive."
>
> I use a 100 meg Zip drive to store my files. Only operating programs (e.g,
> Win98, MS Office, Netscape, AOL and so on) are on the hard drive. Such
> drives can be external (as we use) or internal (as will be the case with my
> next computer). All told, I have more than a dozen such disks. Whatever
> inconvenience that might seem to present is, to me, more than offset by a
> sense of security and the outright portability of the data.
>
> A couple of accompanying habits are helpful as well:
>
> I only insert the Zip disk fully into the drive when I'm actually working
> on a file.
>
> I keep my virus software (McAfee) current via weekly updates and whenever
> McAfee sends me a notice. (Several infected files have come my way; none
> have gotten through and no damage has been done.)
>
> Thus, worst case for me is that I will have to reinstall some software but
> I won't ever lose any data. (Consider that an individual-level instance of
> risk management.)
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Fred Nickols
> Distance Consulting "Assistance at A Distance"
> http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
> nickols@worldnet.att.net
> (609) 490-0095

--
Dick Montgomery, General Manager
21st Century Cooperative
Midland, MI 48642
Our Mission - "Help You Increase Sales"
http://www.chemmgrs.com

On 17 Jul 99, at 7:42, Fred Nickols wrote:

> Richard Montgomery observes...
>
> >...I lost 4 gig of information last year and have been
> >very leary ever since. "The only sure method is daily backup."
>
> Actually, there is at least one other method. I use it and I convinced my
> crew at work to use it, too.
>
> "Keep no data on your computer's hard drive."
>
> I use a 100 meg Zip drive to store my files. Only operating programs
> (e.g, Win98, MS Office, Netscape, AOL and so on) are on the hard drive.
> Such drives can be external (as we use) or internal (as will be the case
> with my next computer). All told, I have more than a dozen such disks.
> Whatever inconvenience that might seem to present is, to me, more than
> offset by a sense of security and the outright portability of the data.

Fred, I guess you aren't aware of a few things. First, many
removable media drives have reliability problems. The zip drive
had/has the click of death that actually results not only in the drive
dying a noisy death, but the destruction of any cartridge you try to
use in a damaged drive. (I know, I have one and about 12 dead
carts).

I understand Iomega is/has been sued in a class action suit over
this.

Second, The Syquest folks (now bankrupt) also had severe
reliability problems for the removables, primarily the Sparq drive (I
know, I had one of THOSE and ten carts also).

These days, pretty much most people are going to cdrom burners
(that's what I ended up doing), which has the added benefit of being
able to read data from a cdrom from one system on any system
that has a cdplayer. MUCH cheaper, too.

> Thus, worst case for me is that I will have to reinstall some software but
> I won't ever lose any data. (Consider that an individual-level instance
> of risk management.) --

Uh...no. You could be right, but people have lost huge amounts of
data thinking this way.

If I had had a hard drive crash at the wrong time (even with zip
backups) I could have lost my entire business, even with very
regular full system backups.


Visit the Management Bookshelf and save time and money while finding
the best books on management. http://members.xoom.com/topbooks

Robert Bacal writes...

>Fred, I guess you aren't aware of a few things. First, many
>removable media drives have reliability problems. The zip drive
>had/has the click of death that actually results not only in the drive
>dying a noisy death, but the destruction of any cartridge you try to
>use in a damaged drive. (I know, I have one and about 12 dead
>carts).
>
>I understand Iomega is/has been sued in a class action suit over
>this.
>
>Second, The Syquest folks (now bankrupt) also had severe
>reliability problems for the removables, primarily the Sparq drive (I
>know, I had one of THOSE and ten carts also).
>
>These days, pretty much most people are going to cdrom burners
>(that's what I ended up doing), which has the added benefit of being
>able to read data from a cdrom from one system on any system
>that has a cdplayer. MUCH cheaper, too.
>
>> Thus, worst case for me is that I will have to reinstall some software but
>> I won't ever lose any data. (Consider that an individual-level instance
>> of risk management.) --
>
>Uh...no. You could be right, but people have lost huge amounts of
>data thinking this way.
>
>If I had had a hard drive crash at the wrong time (even with zip
>backups) I could have lost my entire business, even with very
>regular full system backups.

I hear of such problems, Robert, but I have never experienced one. I've
had many, many PCs over the years, starting in 1984 and never - not once -
has a hard disk crashed. (I accidentally formatted a floppy or two in the
early years but I chalk that up as a learning experience.) I've been using
external Iomega Zip drives for several years, too, and nary a problem. Nor
has anyone at either of the two companies where I've spent most of the last
13 years had any such problem. Speaking as a former technician who was
once intimately involved in the operation, maintenance and repair of
complex shipboard weapon systems (including computers), that little ol' PC
is without a doubt the most reliable piece of equipment I've ever
encountered. So, I'm sorry to hear that you've been plagued by such
problems, but I'm not, so I'll stick with what's working for me.
--

Regards,

Fred Nickols
Distance Consulting "Assistance at A Distance"
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

If interested in the possibility of a Zip drive developing the Click of
Death, the following free utility may be of interest, for those who have
100 mb Zip drives:

http://www.grc.com/clickdeath.htm

It is from Gibson Research. Steve Gibson is an incredibly able
writer/columnist, and software designer/author. [Last year, when a
colleague mentioned the number of failed zip drives in her class, I
presumed that the students didn't know what they were doing. Now, I
have other thoughts.]

George S. Cole gscole@ark.ship.edu
Shippensburg University

On 18 Jul 99, at 5:57, Fred Nickols wrote:


> I hear of such problems, Robert, but I have never experienced one. I've
> had many, many PCs over the years, starting in 1984 and never - not once -
> has a hard disk crashed. (I accidentally formatted a floppy or two in the
> early years but I chalk that up as a learning experience.) I've been
> using external Iomega Zip drives for several years, too, and nary a
> problem.

Fred, again, I don't think your experience and mine are germaine
here. The failure rates on removables is and has been high from the
beginning, going back to the 44 meg syquests which died in less
than clean air environments.

I't just a heads up. The number of failures for the zips is (I am
recollecting, in over five figure range, and again, the result can be
complete loss of the cartridges and anything on them. Quite
simply, the get physically destroyed.



Nor has anyone at either of the two companies where I've spent
> most of the last 13 years had any such problem. Speaking as a former
> technician who was once intimately involved in the operation, maintenance
> and repair of complex shipboard weapon systems (including computers), that
> little ol' PC is without a doubt the most reliable piece of equipment I've
> ever encountered. So, I'm sorry to hear that you've been plagued by such
> problems, but I'm not, so I'll stick with what's working for me. --

That's fine. If you or others EVER EVER hear clicking from their
zips (and you will know it when you hear it), immediately rescue
any data from the clicking cartridges to something different (NOT
the zip drive that is clicking).

..and by the way, if anyone comes across the opportunity to buy a
syquest sparq drive. DON'T. The company is bankrupt, and their
failures are virtually guaranteed (great concept though if it worked).


Visit the Management Bookshelf and save time and money while finding
the best books on management. http://members.xoom.com/topbooks

The lowly tape backup systems still seem to give the fewest problems.

Robert Bacal wrote:

> On 17 Jul 99, at 7:42, Fred Nickols wrote:
>
> > Richard Montgomery observes...
> >

On 18 Jul 99, at 21:43, Richard Montgomery wrote:

> The lowly tape backup systems still seem to give the fewest problems.
>
I guess we are going far afield here, so here's a last comment.
First, tape backups have some advantages and a number of
disadvantages, and my research suggests there are reliability
problems there too (and they are getting difficult to purchase).

The key is that NO system is fool proof, (actually cdrom to me
seems the safest) so multiple redundancy is in order if your life and
welfare depends on your machine(s)..


Robert Bacal, Performance management resources (books,lists,articles) at http://performance-appraisal.8m.com