Discussion: View Thread

Hi. Apologies for cross posting.

My question to you all is, "Why won't/can't people work?" A proposed
answer is below, and I would appreciate your additions/corrections.

We often say that the problem is not the individual, it's the system.
Yesterday I was told that some boxes had to be checked a second time
because "Ed" kept messing up - he replaced some tags in the wrong
boxes. When I asked how I could tell which box the tags went in to (I
fell out of the Christmas tree this morning) it turned out you had to
know the difference between a spacer and a slip tube. The spacer is 1.5
inches long, of 5/16 inch dia tube. The slip tube is 2.5 inches long,
of 5/8 inch dia tube. "See. It's obvious!"

Ed, meanwhile, has been relieved of duty on this task, and clearly has
received a message of incompetency. The senior people are the only ones
who can do this job. Ask them.

OK, why don't the 'youngsters' work well? I list some reasons below,
more or less in ascending order.

Do they know what was requested?

Do they have appropriate tools and equipment?

Do they have adequate information?

Do they understand what is to be done?

Have they received suitable training?

Do they want to do the work?

Questions for you (plural):

What steps in the above questions list are missing?
What steps are extraneous/repetitive?
What might be a better order for ascending knowledge/skills required?

Clearly, this is a real case. I need to discuss the situation with the
senior managers, who understand the system/person distinction only
intellectually at this point.

Many thanks to all of you for your help clarifying my brain.
Jay
--
Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA

Ph: (414) 634-9100
FAX: (414) 681-1133
email: quality@a2q.com
web: http://www.a2q.com

The A2Q Method (tm). What do you want to improve today?

Jay,
Have you considered that perhaps Ed is the bright one?
If he has managed to divest himself of a repetitive and tedious task, but
still keep his job, he's obviously ripe for promotion;-)
Regards,

Kevin Fields
Lecturer: Tourism & Hospitality Management
Birmingham College of Food, Tourism
& Creative Studies

"Education is not filling a bucket but lighting a fire."
--- WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Management Education and Development Discussion
> [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of Jay Warner
> Sent: 20 October 1999 10:43
> To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Subject: Why won't peole work? - analysis
>
>
> Hi. Apologies for cross posting.
>
> My question to you all is, "Why won't/can't people work?" A proposed
> answer is below, and I would appreciate your additions/corrections.
>
> We often say that the problem is not the individual, it's the system.
> Yesterday I was told that some boxes had to be checked a second time
> because "Ed" kept messing up - he replaced some tags in the wrong
> boxes. When I asked how I could tell which box the tags went in to (I
> fell out of the Christmas tree this morning) it turned out you had to
> know the difference between a spacer and a slip tube. The spacer is 1.5
> inches long, of 5/16 inch dia tube. The slip tube is 2.5 inches long,
> of 5/8 inch dia tube. "See. It's obvious!"
>
> Ed, meanwhile, has been relieved of duty on this task, and clearly has
> received a message of incompetency. The senior people are the only ones
> who can do this job. Ask them.
>
> OK, why don't the 'youngsters' work well? I list some reasons below,
> more or less in ascending order.
>
> Do they know what was requested?
>
> Do they have appropriate tools and equipment?
>
> Do they have adequate information?
>
> Do they understand what is to be done?
>
> Have they received suitable training?
>
> Do they want to do the work?
>
> Questions for you (plural):
>
> What steps in the above questions list are missing?
> What steps are extraneous/repetitive?
> What might be a better order for ascending knowledge/skills required?
>
> Clearly, this is a real case. I need to discuss the situation with the
> senior managers, who understand the system/person distinction only
> intellectually at this point.
>
> Many thanks to all of you for your help clarifying my brain.
> Jay
> --
> Jay Warner
> Principal Scientist
> Warner Consulting, Inc.
> 4444 North Green Bay Road
> Racine, WI 53404-1216
> USA
>
> Ph: (414) 634-9100
> FAX: (414) 681-1133
> email: quality@a2q.com
> web: http://www.a2q.com
>
> The A2Q Method (tm). What do you want to improve today?
>

Jay,

Some other questions you need to ask are: (But first find out if
management wants the truth of if they just want to be entertained)

1.a. Are there Process Procedures available for the workers?
b. And are the procedures up to date?
c. Do the workers use them?

2. Did some other team leader/supervisor/etc intervene and, mistakenly,
provide direction to use the erroneous part? (Of course, no one may actually
admit to this.)

3. Were the erroneous parts placed in the parts bin or other area from which
Ed was supposed to draw parts, thus indicating that they were the correct
part? (Could indicate a supply problem)

Just three that came to mind right off the bat that could show that Ed
was just doing what he was told.

On the other side of the coin, if Ed was just "sloughing off," it may be
a good time to find a replacement. But you need to get truthful answers
first, then decide what you are going to do with those answers.

Al Stitt
Training Manager
Distance Learning Specialist
Curriculum Design Manager

A couple of friendly additions / amendments ...

On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Jay Warner wrote:
> OK, why don't the 'youngsters' work well? I list some reasons below,
> more or less in ascending order.
>
> Do they know what was requested?

Do they know what the end product is supposed to look like, sound like,
feel like, etc.? (not just theory but applied examples)

> Do they have appropriate tools and equipment?
>
> Do they have adequate information?
>
> Do they understand what is to be done?
>
> Have they received suitable training?

Have they had a CHANCE TO PRACTISE IN A REALISTIC ENVIRONMENT
to become competent?

>
> Do they want to do the work?

Are they supported and rewarded for competence? (If a person is rewarded
for doing an undesireable (by others) job well by being given more of that
work, what message will they get?

I suggest referencing anything by Robert F. Mager to expand on these
thoughts.

best regards

alice

*****************************************************************
* Alice Macpherson, TQ, ID phone: (604) 599-2426 vm 9954 *
* Kwantlen University College email: alicemac@kwantlen.bc.ca *
* 12666-72nd Ave, Surrey, BC, Canada, V3W 2M8 *
* "Life Long Learning includes Everyone, All the Time" *
*****************************************************************

Dear Friends:

What are peoles?

Tom Bryant. <GGG>

My guess is PEOns who make LESs than their bosses? What's your take?

Tom Bryant wrote:
>
> Dear Friends:
>
> What are peoles?
>
> Tom Bryant. <GGG>

At 04:42 AM 10/20/99 -0500, Jay wrote:
>What steps in the above questions list are missing?

On first reading, some questions that occur to me as additionally relevant
are:

Is the work beyond their physical or mental capacity?
Are they physically able to do any work?
Do they want to do any work at all (in return for the menetary compensation) ?

Ram
rramxx@vsnl.com

Jay Warner tells a little story about Ed, who keeps "messing up" and was
relieved of duty on a particular task, confirming a view that the senior
people are the only ones who can do this job. Jay then asks about some of
the reasons the "youngsters" don't work well. He offers his own starter
list by way of answer:

> Do they know what was requested?
> Do they have appropriate tools and equipment?
> Do they have adequate information?
> Do they understand what is to be done?
> Have they received suitable training?
> Do they want to do the work?

He then asks the list members:

>What steps in the above questions list are missing?
>What steps are extraneous/repetitive?
>What might be a better order for ascending knowledge/skills required?

Several list members have already responded with some good suggestions so
I'll not duplicate their useful ideas. Instead, I'll point out that the
situation Jay describes is a classic situation in a field known as Human
Performance Technology. One of the equally classic books in this field is
"Analyzing Performance Problems" by Robert Mager & Peter Pipe. Another is
Thomas Gilbert's book "Human Competence: Engineering Worthy Performance."
Both are available from amazon.com.

Yours truly has his own entry in this genre -- an article titled "The
Conditions of Performance: Factors that Help or Hinder" -- which appeared
in print in Performance & Instruction in 1986. It concludes with a
checklist that includes Jay's items above and many of those suggested by
people who have responded to Jay's inquiry. You can find a copy of it at my
web site. Click on the URL and then look under the Training & Performance
heading.

http://home.att.net/~nickols/articles.htm

Hope this helps..

Fred Nickols
The Distance Consulting Company
"Assistance at A Distance"
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

Hello.

I'd like to add a little cultural twist to this thread.

"In Latin America, people seem to produce work for others primarily because of a personal relationship with them. You can rely on employees and colleagues to do a task because they have a sense of personal
loyalty to you. The formal organizational structure or their job descriptions are not enough to guarantee compliance or service. Personalism, a desire for personalized, individualized attention, is a strong
theme in Latin American culture (Albert, 1996) as seen in the following examples."

Quote from: Organizational implications of Latin American culture: Lessons for the expatriate manager, by Osland, Joyce S; De Franco, Silvio; Osland, Asbjorn;
Journal of Management Inquiry v8n2 pp: 219-234 Jun 1999.

Hope it's helpful.

Marco
--
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Marco Pellegatti
Director of Research
Amana-Key Desenvolvimento & Educa��o
Av. Maria Coelho Aguiar 215 G/2
Sao Paulo SP 05805-000 Brazil
Tel (55-11) 3741-3696
pellegatti@amana-key.com.br
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, Fred Nickols wrote:
> Yours truly has his own entry in this genre -- an article titled "The
> Conditions of Performance: Factors that Help or Hinder" -- which appeared
> in print in Performance & Instruction in 1986. It concludes with a
> checklist that includes Jay's items above and many of those suggested by
> people who have responded to Jay's inquiry. You can find a copy of it at my
> web site. Click on the URL and then look under the Training & Performance
> heading.
>
> http://home.att.net/~nickols/articles.htm


Fred,

you are too good. ;-)

your eight general conditions of task performance

1.Task Clarity
2.Task Competence
3.Task Consequences
4.Task Competition
5.Task Cooperation
6.Task Control
7.Task Commitment
8.Task Character and Context

are a clear and concise framing of the issue and means to address it.

I also like your distinction between repetitive tasks and situational
tasks. The checklist is excellent.

This helps me a lot (and I didn't even ask the initial question!)

best regards

alice

*****************************************************************
* Alice Macpherson, TQ, ID phone: (604) 599-2426 vm 9954 *
* Kwantlen University College email: alicemac@kwantlen.bc.ca *
* 12666-72nd Ave, Surrey, BC, Canada, V3W 2M8 *
* "Life Long Learning includes Everyone, All the Time" *
*****************************************************************

At 11:56 AM 10/21/99 -0200,Marco Pellegatti wrote:
>I'd like to add a little cultural twist to this thread.
>
>"In Latin America, people seem to produce work for others primarily
because of a personal relationship with them. ................"

It struck me how true this is in India also - specially in small and medium
(2 to 1000 strong) institutions and in departments of an organisation. I
know of industries and establishments where people happily work for a
pittance (even through generations) because the atmosphere is not like that
of an employer-employee but like that of a family. There would be oozing
of (genuine) paternalism; there is even a Hindi word in it for the boss-
"Maai-Baap" (literally meaning mother-father). It is probably a hang-over
from the feudal days. But this is on the way out, with the younger
generation taking over as bosses after graduating in B-schools and they
tend to look down upon the "working" classes.

Therefore, additional questions can be:
Does the person feel that he belongs or is it all impersonal?
Is there a personnel policy which is employee-friendly and people oriented?

Perhaps the importance of the above is beginning to be appreciated
everywhere now.

Ram
Bangalore, India
rramxx@vsnl.com

I may be a Pollyanna, but I do truly believe that most people DO want to
perform well - there are just hundreds of variables in today's workplace that
can through obstacles in the way of that performance. Over time, if those
obstacles aren't removed, cynicism seeps in and people begin to give up.
Poor performance is then blamed on the person alone - rather than looking for
those obstacles.

Robert Mager does a wonderful job of identifying those obstacles as well as
providing tools to help in the assessment process. The Mager Sixpack is a
classic and his newer book, What Every Manager Needs to Know About Training,
is everybit as helpful.

Nancy Probst

NProbst261@AOL.COM wrote:

> I may be a Pollyanna, but I do truly believe that most people DO want
> to
> perform well - there are just hundreds of variables in today's
> workplace that
> can through obstacles in the way of that performance. [snip]Nancy
> Probst

OK, so I am a Pollyanna, too. Someday us Pollyana's will have to get
together over coffee and comiserate at the large number of realistic
cynics. Unhappy, realistic cynics.

Jay
--
Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA

Please Note: New Area Code ------
Ph: (262) 634-9100
FAX: (262) 681-1133
email: quality@a2q.com
web: http://www.a2q.com

The A2Q Method (tm). What do you want to improve today?