Judi,
There are some programs that do automatically open attachments, but that is not the
problem!! Even if YOU (or I) choose not to open the document, It still resides on the server
(taking up space. not a trivial issue if the attachment is going to the 771 people on the
MG-ED-DV listserve) and it also takes time (read bandwidth here) when it is sent to the said
771 people. The attachment takes a lot of space in transmission and in where it resides. That
is my take on the situation. It should be very simple and easy for an email author to reference
that an attachment is available OR just put it on a web site where only people who want it can
retreive it and it only takes space on the specific website until someone retreives it to their
server.
Glad I can be of some help.
Where do yuo work?, nick
Automatic digest processor wrote:
> There are 7 messages totalling 489 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. MG-ED-DV Digest - 24 Nov 1999 to 25 Nov 1999 (#1999-289)
> 2. owner/manager/leader re this mailing list (3)
> 3. MG-ED-DV Digest - 24 Nov 1999 to 25 Nov 1999 (#1999-289)
> 4. free and easy solution plus acquisition of helpful tool
> 5. More on attachments
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:16:48 EST
> From: Judi Baumbach <
JBaumbach@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: MG-ED-DV Digest - 24 Nov 1999 to 25 Nov 1999 (#1999-289)
>
> Hi Everyone.
>
> Being on aol, I am somewhat sheltered from the problems that attachments
> cause. I appreciate the dialogue about the various consequences that the
> different email programs produce, and would have to conclude that the
> interests of the majority far outweigh my abilty to choose when to download
> or not.
>
> I do have a question.. how is it that this choice doesn't exist in other
> email programs ?? Do attachment automatically get downloaded when the mail is
> opened ??
>
> Judi
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:48:04 +0200
> From: Philippe Scheimann <
ps@ORBINA.COM>
> Subject: owner/manager/leader re this mailing list
>
> Hi,
>
> By sending a short note about attachments, I was at the origin (!) of this
> massive dialogue between members of the mailing list.
> If we put aside the specific issue, it is indeed interesting to analyse
> this lively situation and which can be helpful to understand concepts of:
> - leadership
> - management
> and - ownership
> in the cyberspace
>
> Using a commercial approach to analyse the list members as was described in
> a previous mail can be very useful:
> Edi Bevan wrote:
> >Can I suggest looking at it in terms of products and customers.
>
> In a sense, this list is at the first step of a business where people want
> to get some attention, awareness from others about their work, ideas,
> discuss some issues in order to launch afterward a product say a seminar, a
> course, an article etc.
>
> This mailing list is in the 'cyberspace' and has a owner who has set up
> some basic rules of behavior. However, this list is not manually moderated
> (right?) i.e. messages sent by list members are not reviewed by the owner -
> we would call the owner a moderator if it was the case.
> The owner could be very active and make sure that even every rules that
> have been set up are well observed. This is the case of moderated mailing
> lists where the moderator invests a number of hours per day to read the
> messages before hand, moderates a dialogue, suggests some new subjects,
> cuts endless issues, gives his point of view. If the owner is good then
> those lists have a very low ratio of noise and are very well focused.
> For instance, I used to be a member of internetadvertising mailing
> moderated by Adam Boetiger; his intensive work gave him the status of
> marketing expert.
>
> This list is not the case: for whatever (valid) reasons, the owner is not
> fully moderating the list.
> One could consider the owner as a semi passive owner of the organisation:
> he is at the board and if there are too many problems then he reacts.
> Therefore, there is much freedom left to the members who start acquiring
> some sense of ownership to the mailing list.
>
> By letting a loose situation continue, some members start reacting:
> 1. Leaving: from silent members / lurkers / they send an unsubscribe
> message to the server and they are out.
> 2. Raising their voice on this issue: they start reacting (this was my
> case)in order to make sure that some of the rules of this list are being
> observed.
> 3. Trying to set their own rules for the list members deliberately or in a
> subtle manner, i.e acquiring some parts of this space.
>
> Is this leading, managing?
> Can we identify some of the roles and the mechanisms?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Philippe Scheimann MBA MSc
>
http://www.orbina.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 02:14:48 -0600
> From: Robert Bacal <
rbacal@ESCAPE.CA>
> Subject: Re: MG-ED-DV Digest - 24 Nov 1999 to 25 Nov 1999
> (#1999-289)
>
> On 27 Nov 99, at 0:16, Judi Baumbach wrote:
>
> > I do have a question.. how is it that this choice doesn't exist in other
> > email programs ?? Do attachment automatically get downloaded when the mail
> > is opened ??
>
> My bet is since most of us haven't used all the programs around, it
> would be hard to say. Generally attachments sent, let's say to my
> mailbox (along with mail) will sit in my mailbox at my ISP until I
> download them. But they seem to be integral to the messages. I
> could do a selective download of mail, but that adds steps and
> times to the process. And I'd have to scan the messages in one
> step, then download what I want in another, then delete (if that's
> possible) in yet another. And, I'd have to do it by size, since I can't
> tell when there are attachments.
>
> Regardless, they sit at the ISP, and that's a major problem. Some
> people (and this applies to me, I think, or used to), work with ISP's
> that impose a size limit on the mailbox, let's say 1 megabyte.
> Once that's reached bad things happen...either the mail box rejects
> posts if there's no space (and it goes into nevernever land), or it
> may do other strange things, like require me to log in via the shell
> to clean up the mess (that happened once).
>
> The risk increases for people who only pick up their mail
> occasionally, since attachments and/or large emails accumulate.
> Or for people who travel (like myself, and I presume many others
> on the list).
>
> If you've ever gotten a "mailbox full" message, that's the cause.
>
> And, often our mailbox limits aren't under our own control. Further,
> several internet access plans are metered, either in time, or in
> bytes. Cable modem owners here have a limit for transfer. After
> that, they pay, so unwanted large emails can cost people money.
> Second, some plans offer x hrs. for x dollars. So, if one is on one
> of them, and has to spend 1 hour downloading junk, then that bites
> into the time (I will eventually be switching my account to one of
> those). Again, if you go over the allotted quote, it costs and
> sometimes pretty big time.
>
> Bookmark the search for anything page - websites, email addresses, books,newsgroups, lists.
>
http://www.escape.ca/~rbacal/search.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:23:23 PST
> From: Karon Tedford <
karont@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject: free and easy solution plus acquisition of helpful tool
>
> The Internet site
http://www.xdrive.com/ may offer a solution to sending
> attachments to listserves, as well as to individuals that may not be able
> to, or want to, accept attachments with their mail programs (or that have
> mail programs that have decoding problems.
>
> It is FREE and very easy to use. After logging in, you click on the Upload
> File button. A dialog box will ask you for the file name and path or you
> can click on the browse button and locate the file on your hard drive.
> Double clicking on your file will load it.
>
> Once it has uploaded to the site, you then highlight the file you wish to
> share with others and click on the Share File button. It will ask you for
> the email address of the person(s). You can enclose a short email message
> and description of the file. xdrive will then send the email to the
> person(s) - without the attachment.
>
> To send to a listserve, you can share the file with yourself at the email
> address that the listserve uses. When you receive the notice, you just
> forward to the listserve. This method will ensure that the listserve
> accepts the notification email.
>
> The email will include a link that the reader can copy and paste into their
> browser (or click on if their mail program supports). The reader can then
> open the file or download. The file is available for 7 days.
>
> The receipient makes the decision whether they want the file or not -
> without tying up anyone's bandwidth and without the inconvenience of having
> to request the file and wait for it to be sent outside of the listserve.
>
> The file itself is available and stored on the web indefinitely for the
> file's owner. 25 mg of space is available with the free membership - that's
> quite a few attachments.
>
> I also use xdrive as a back-up drive for important files and for files that
> I may need to access while away from my desktop. Files can be accessed from
> anywhere as long as you have an Internet connection.
>
> I use xdrive to share large picture files with friends and family, as well
> as large Excel and PowerPoint files with business peers. It is an excellant
> collaboration tool for virtual teamwork. A virus checker can be utilized
> before opening any downloaded files.
>
> There are other sites that offer similar free services. I've listed some
> below. Different sites can be utilized for personal vs business use, etc.
>
> Enjoy...
>
> yahoo briefcase
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/
> xdrive
http://www.xdrive.com/
> idrive
http://www.idrive.com/
> punch webgroups
http://www.punchnetworks.com/
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at
http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 05:55:23 -0500
> From: Charles Wankel <
cxx@BELLATLANTIC.NET>
> Subject: Re: owner/manager/leader re this mailing list
>
> Greetings Philippe,
> I hope that the weather in Israel is less wet and foggy than here in New
> York.
> As the person referred to in your subject field, I'd like to respond to
> your comments. This is an unmoderated list. As the person who founded and
> still runs (with co-listmaster Michael Wolfe of St. John's) this forum, I
> decided that this would be the best approach. Moderators (of moderated
> lists) tend to accumulate a heap of postings cull them and dispatch in mass
> mailings every so often. I decided to have mg-ed-dv operate as an
> unmoderated discussion in real-time by not filtering comments. This, as
> with much in life, has good points and bad points. When something
> impertinent is posted I often contact the offender off-list and explain why
> the posting was a mistake or could be improved next time. That is, I try to
> create LIST CULTURE. The culture is meant to keep things on track.
> Mg-Ed-Dv is affiliated with the Academy of Management's Management
> Education and Development (MED)) Division. I hope to have additional
> affiliations for it in the future. MED is meant to encompass BOTH management
> education (happening largely in universities and their ilk) and management
> development (largely in business and other non-education organizations and
> done by corporate staff and/or consultants). I have recruited people from
> both areas very consciously and am very pleased that mg-ed-dv is not
> strictly academic nor strictly practitioner. Since late 1996, when mg-ed-dv
> was started, mg-ed-dv has lived with the horror on the part of some
> academics that "they" (non-academics) are here. Well, if an academic gets
> goosebumps having a discourse with business folks I think she/he should
> switch out of "management" and into "linguistic morphology of the ancient
> dead languages".
> Sure some people here are "superficial". However, for the intelligent
> among us even their comments can be stimulating. I have attempted to DELETE
> the subscriptions of offensive folks and groups. (For which, on one
> occasion, an Arizonan--you might remember the nut--sent me a death threat).
> The ISP, a university in Arizona, explained that they wouldn't remove him
> for sending a death threat because it might have be just his feelings for a
> time but since he posted quasi-commercial messages they would suspend his
> subscription (modern times!).
> So, Philippe, am I a manager/leader? I would say I'm trying to be a
> culture-manager. Sure, when a squabble occurs I try to restore decorum.
> Sure, I establish rules.
> Generally, I would prefer more discussion more tightly related to
> "management education" and "management development" issues rather than on
> "management" issues per se. However, I currently have decided to be lenient
> about that since "management issues" are the content of what we teach
> anyhow.
> Mg-Ed-Dv is a virtual community for sure. You are a member of this virtual
> community. You might be in the center of the community actively
> constructing our doings. Or you may be at the fringe deleting nearly
> everything hoping for the day when your work permits YOU to join in the
> civility and collegially of a global virtual discussion--and global we are!
> We've had postings from Zimbabwe and Nepal. Certainly we've not overly
> USA-centric. Actually, the first half year when I started mg-ed-dv, I was
> living and working in Kaunas, Lithuania.
> What mg-ed-dvers should do to help make our virtual community a better
> place? SHARE! Recently I shared my strategy course website with you all,
> for example. I invite you to share interesting exercises, links to net
> resources, interesting curricula, what you are looking for, problems you're
> having with management ed/dev, etc.
> Oh Philippe, by the bye, I don't mind participants suggesting dos and
> don'ts in our virtual community. I think that is very useful. However,
> Michael and I are around to endorse particular directions and try to keep us
> from going in all directions at one time.
> Cybercollegially,
> Charlie Wankel
> St. John's University, New York City
> listmaster mg-ed-dv
> AOM MED Division Chair
>
wankelc@stjohns.edu
>
> ----------
>
> Philippe in Israel wrote:
> ....
>
> This list is not the case: for whatever (valid) reasons, the owner is not
> fully moderating the list.
> One could consider the owner as a semi passive owner of the organisation:
> he is at the board and if there are too many problems then he reacts.
> Therefore, there is much freedom left to the members who start acquiring
> some sense of ownership to the mailing list.
>
> By letting a loose situation continue, some members start reacting:
> 1. Leaving: from silent members / lurkers / they send an unsubscribe
> message to the server and they are out.
> 2. Raising their voice on this issue: they start reacting (this was my
> case)in order to make sure that some of the rules of this list are being
> observed.
> 3. Trying to set their own rules for the list members deliberately or in a
> subtle manner, i.e acquiring some parts of this space.
>
> Is this leading, managing?
> Can we identify some of the roles and the mechanisms?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:56:40 -0600
> From: "Randall W. Kindley" <
kindley@DIALUPNET.COM>
> Subject: Re: owner/manager/leader re this mailing list
>
> Thanks Charles!
>
> ______________________
>
> Randall W. Kindley The Performance Group
> President 5215 45th Ave. S.
> V: 612-721-6752 Minneapolis MN 55417-2334
> F: 847-589-5231
www.performgroup.net
>
kindley@dialupnet.com
>
> "Building High Performance Organizations by
> Developing People and Processes"
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Management Education and Development Discussion
> > [mailto:
MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU]On Behalf Of Charles Wankel
> > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 4:55 AM
> > To:
MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> > Subject: Re: owner/manager/leader re this mailing list
> >
> >
> > Greetings Philippe,
> > I hope that the weather in Israel is less wet and foggy
> > than here in New
> > York.
> > As the person referred to in your subject field, I'd like
> > to respond to
> > your comments. This is an unmoderated list. As the person who
> > founded and
> > still runs (with co-listmaster Michael Wolfe of St. John's) this forum, I
> > decided that this would be the best approach. Moderators (of moderated
> > lists) tend to accumulate a heap of postings cull them and
> > dispatch in mass
> > mailings every so often. I decided to have mg-ed-dv operate as an
> > unmoderated discussion in real-time by not filtering comments. This, as
> > with much in life, has good points and bad points. When something
> > impertinent is posted I often contact the offender off-list and
> > explain why
> > the posting was a mistake or could be improved next time. That
> > is, I try to
> > create LIST CULTURE. The culture is meant to keep things on track.
> > Mg-Ed-Dv is affiliated with the Academy of Management's Management
> > Education and Development (MED)) Division. I hope to have additional
> > affiliations for it in the future. MED is meant to encompass BOTH
> > management
> > education (happening largely in universities and their ilk) and management
> > development (largely in business and other non-education organizations and
> > done by corporate staff and/or consultants). I have recruited people from
> > both areas very consciously and am very pleased that mg-ed-dv is not
> > strictly academic nor strictly practitioner. Since late 1996,
> > when mg-ed-dv
> > was started, mg-ed-dv has lived with the horror on the part of some
> > academics that "they" (non-academics) are here. Well, if an academic gets
> > goosebumps having a discourse with business folks I think she/he should
> > switch out of "management" and into "linguistic morphology of the ancient
> > dead languages".
> > Sure some people here are "superficial". However, for the
> > intelligent
> > among us even their comments can be stimulating. I have
> > attempted to DELETE
> > the subscriptions of offensive folks and groups. (For which, on one
> > occasion, an Arizonan--you might remember the nut--sent me a
> > death threat).
> > The ISP, a university in Arizona, explained that they wouldn't remove him
> > for sending a death threat because it might have be just his
> > feelings for a
> > time but since he posted quasi-commercial messages they would suspend his
> > subscription (modern times!).
> > So, Philippe, am I a manager/leader? I would say I'm trying to be a
> > culture-manager. Sure, when a squabble occurs I try to restore decorum.
> > Sure, I establish rules.
> > Generally, I would prefer more discussion more tightly related to
> > "management education" and "management development" issues rather than on
> > "management" issues per se. However, I currently have decided to
> > be lenient
> > about that since "management issues" are the content of what we teach
> > anyhow.
> > Mg-Ed-Dv is a virtual community for sure. You are a member
> > of this virtual
> > community. You might be in the center of the community actively
> > constructing our doings. Or you may be at the fringe deleting nearly
> > everything hoping for the day when your work permits YOU to join in the
> > civility and collegially of a global virtual discussion--and
> > global we are!
> > We've had postings from Zimbabwe and Nepal. Certainly we've not overly
> > USA-centric. Actually, the first half year when I started mg-ed-dv, I was
> > living and working in Kaunas, Lithuania.
> > What mg-ed-dvers should do to help make our virtual
> > community a better
> > place? SHARE! Recently I shared my strategy course website with you all,
> > for example. I invite you to share interesting exercises, links to net
> > resources, interesting curricula, what you are looking for,
> > problems you're
> > having with management ed/dev, etc.
> > Oh Philippe, by the bye, I don't mind participants
> > suggesting dos and
> > don'ts in our virtual community. I think that is very useful. However,
> > Michael and I are around to endorse particular directions and try
> > to keep us
> > from going in all directions at one time.
> > Cybercollegially,
> > Charlie Wankel
> > St. John's University, New York City
> > listmaster mg-ed-dv
> > AOM MED Division Chair
> >
wankelc@stjohns.edu
> >
> > ----------
> >
> > Philippe in Israel wrote:
> > ....
> >
> > This list is not the case: for whatever (valid) reasons, the owner is not
> > fully moderating the list.
> > One could consider the owner as a semi passive owner of the organisation:
> > he is at the board and if there are too many problems then he reacts.
> > Therefore, there is much freedom left to the members who start acquiring
> > some sense of ownership to the mailing list.
> >
> > By letting a loose situation continue, some members start reacting:
> > 1. Leaving: from silent members / lurkers / they send an unsubscribe
> > message to the server and they are out.
> > 2. Raising their voice on this issue: they start reacting (this was my
> > case)in order to make sure that some of the rules of this list are being
> > observed.
> > 3. Trying to set their own rules for the list members deliberately or in a
> > subtle manner, i.e acquiring some parts of this space.
> >
> > Is this leading, managing?
> > Can we identify some of the roles and the mechanisms?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 15:02:40 -0800
> From: Edryce Reynolds <
edryce@JUNO.COM>
> Subject: More on attachments
>
> I have no problem with attachments, because my version of Juno simply
> does not accept them. I like that. When I know an attachment is coming,
> I have another email address devoted to that.
>
> Edryce
>
> On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:16:48 EST Judi Baumbach <
JBaumbach@AOL.COM>
> writes:
> >Hi Everyone.
> >
> >Being on aol, I am somewhat sheltered from the problems that
> >attachments
> >cause. I appreciate the dialogue about the various consequences that
> >the
> >different email programs produce, and would have to conclude that the
> >interests of the majority far outweigh my abilty to choose when to
> >download
> >or not.
> >
> >I do have a question.. how is it that this choice doesn't exist in
> >other
> >email programs ?? Do attachment automatically get downloaded when the
> >mail is
> >opened ??
> >
> >Judi
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of MG-ED-DV Digest - 26 Nov 1999 to 27 Nov 1999 (#1999-291)
> ***************************************************************