Discussion: View Thread

Hello All
This is my first posting but I have enjoyed reading all the mails and have learnt a great deal, I particularly liked the recent bad decisions thread.
I would like to ask the list if any of you have any opinions on culture in organisations, particularly the concept of organisational culture and its significance when addressing the management of organisations. (with reference to your own organisation or just general comments)
Regards
Sylvie



***************************************************
Sylvie Steward
Staff Development/Technical Advisor
Learning & Teaching Development Centre
Liverpool Hope University College
Hope Park, L16 9JD.
Tel: 0151 291 2032
stewars@hope.ac.uk
http://hopelive.hope.ac.uk


*************************************************

Sylvie,

I find your question very interesting and complicated at the same time. I
just received a letter from a management "expert" last week who stated that
he didn't believe the reason for failure of many expatriate managers had
anything to do with cultural/organizational differences. My first thoughts
were that this person had never lived outside of his own country or if he
had he was completely unaware of his environment. My fields are OB and
Management/Managing People. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest (USA), but I
also spent considerable time in the Midwest (USA). I got married in
Zimbabwe to an American girl who spent most of her life in Zimbabwe. For
the past 12 years I have lived and worked in France. I am fascinated by how
different organizational cultures can be, as well as how much management
methods and styles can vary. Organizations are extremely complex living
machines, with emotions, past culture, history, new and not-so-new
employees, souls, etc.. And they are often run or re-organized by new
individuals that have little knowledge of the family they have just adopted
and promised to parent. When one lives in two cultures that are extremely
different in terms of organizational culture (Hofestede) the differences are
enormous. I can't imagine, for example, an Englishman, unfamiliar with
French organizational culture, being able to successfully manage a French
Company that has a French Board of Directors and French Employees. If
anyone has ever heard of this happening please let me know.

Of course it would take pages (books) to explain why I think it would be
difficult for the outsider to make it work, but the main reason is that it
would be hard for a foreigner to change his/her management style and methods
to an organization with such a different culture. I believe that even in
the same country organizations have very different cultures, and therefore
they need to be managed depending on history, people, products, technology,
etc... So, either the management must be adapted to fit the culture, or
organizational change must be planned very very carefully.

My two bits worth:)


Mike Hanson
Professor, Department of Management
Graduate Course Leader, "International Management"
ESCEM School of Business
mhanson@escem.fr
Tel. (33) 05.49.60.58.34


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De: SYLVIE STEWARD [SMTP:STEWARS@HOPE.AC.UK]
> Date: lundi 20 décembre 1999 14:00
> À: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Objet: Organisational culture
>
> Hello All
> This is my first posting but I have enjoyed reading all the mails and have
> learnt a great deal, I particularly liked the recent bad decisions thread.
>
> I would like to ask the list if any of you have any opinions on culture in
> organisations, particularly the concept of organisational culture and its
> significance when addressing the management of organisations. (with
> reference to your own organisation or just general comments)
> Regards
> Sylvie
>
>
>
> ***************************************************
> Sylvie Steward
> Staff Development/Technical Advisor
> Learning & Teaching Development Centre
> Liverpool Hope University College
> Hope Park, L16 9JD.
> Tel: 0151 291 2032
> stewars@hope.ac.uk
> http://hopelive.hope.ac.uk
>
>
> *************************************************

Hi Mike,

Just the person who's experience will give me the kind of opinions I would
like to hear.

When I teach Strategic Information Management the issue of regulating the
internet comes up during the ethics section. After allowing some free
discussion, I typically ask them which countries laws, regulations, and
culture should control the internet. A few of the culturally insulated are
still unaware that the US way isn't the only way.

Now, my question ... make that questions. Are you beginning to see the
level of international exposure and communication impacting people's
cultural awareness and tolerence? Is the internet making it easier for
expatriates to work in different cultures? Will the internet move the world
to a single culture ... greater acceptance of differing cultures.... or more
segregation by culture ... or...?

Take a Chance
Conna Condon
Lifelong Student & Teacher

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hanson Mike" <mhanson@ESCEM.FR>
To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: Organisational culture


Sylvie,

I find your question very interesting and complicated at the same time. I
just received a letter from a management "expert" last week who stated that
he didn't believe the reason for failure of many expatriate managers had
anything to do with cultural/organizational differences. My first thoughts
were that this person had never lived outside of his own country or if he
had he was completely unaware of his environment. My fields are OB and
Management/Managing People. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest (USA), but I
also spent considerable time in the Midwest (USA). I got married in
Zimbabwe to an American girl who spent most of her life in Zimbabwe. For
the past 12 years I have lived and worked in France. I am fascinated by how
different organizational cultures can be, as well as how much management
methods and styles can vary. Organizations are extremely complex living
machines, with emotions, past culture, history, new and not-so-new
employees, souls, etc.. And they are often run or re-organized by new
individuals that have little knowledge of the family they have just adopted
and promised to parent. When one lives in two cultures that are extremely
different in terms of organizational culture (Hofestede) the differences are
enormous. I can't imagine, for example, an Englishman, unfamiliar with
French organizational culture, being able to successfully manage a French
Company that has a French Board of Directors and French Employees. If
anyone has ever heard of this happening please let me know.

Of course it would take pages (books) to explain why I think it would be
difficult for the outsider to make it work, but the main reason is that it
would be hard for a foreigner to change his/her management style and methods
to an organization with such a different culture. I believe that even in
the same country organizations have very different cultures, and therefore
they need to be managed depending on history, people, products, technology,
etc... So, either the management must be adapted to fit the culture, or
organizational change must be planned very very carefully.

My two bits worth:)


Mike Hanson
Professor, Department of Management
Graduate Course Leader, "International Management"
ESCEM School of Business
mhanson@escem.fr
Tel. (33) 05.49.60.58.34


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De: SYLVIE STEWARD [SMTP:STEWARS@HOPE.AC.UK]
> Date: lundi 20 d�cembre 1999 14:00
> �: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Objet: Organisational culture
>
> Hello All
> This is my first posting but I have enjoyed reading all the mails and have
> learnt a great deal, I particularly liked the recent bad decisions thread.
>
> I would like to ask the list if any of you have any opinions on culture in
> organisations, particularly the concept of organisational culture and its
> significance when addressing the management of organisations. (with
> reference to your own organisation or just general comments)
> Regards
> Sylvie
>
>
>
> ***************************************************
> Sylvie Steward
> Staff Development/Technical Advisor
> Learning & Teaching Development Centre
> Liverpool Hope University College
> Hope Park, L16 9JD.
> Tel: 0151 291 2032
> stewars@hope.ac.uk
> http://hopelive.hope.ac.uk
>
>
> *************************************************

Mike Hanson wrote:
SNIP
>I am fascinated by how
>different organizational cultures can be, as well as how much management
>methods and styles can vary. Organizations are extremely complex living
>machines, with emotions, past culture, history, new and not-so-new
>employees, souls, etc..
SNIP
>it would be hard for a foreigner to change his/her management style and
methods
>to an organization with such a different culture. I believe that even in
>the same country organizations have very different cultures, and therefore
>they need to be managed depending on history, people, products, technology,
>etc... So, either the management must be adapted to fit the culture, or
>organizational change must be planned very very carefully.


It has frequently occurred to me that 'management' is generally interpreted
too narrowly. Successful managers should always take into account all
influences on actions and decisions they might take -- including the
atmospheres and mores of the environment within which they operate.

Such successful managers will succeed in different divisions of the same
company (engineering, IT, HR, Marketing, etc.), assuming the appropriate
skills training is held; at different levels within the company (hence
promotion possibilities); within different companies (head hunting); and
within different companies (there are very few major companies who have
operations limited to single geographic areas).

Yes, companies differ. But it doesn't stop good managers moving between
them. And countries differ. But that doesn't stop good managers
succeeding. Good managers will take into account the culture within which
they operate and not simply try to transfer the same attitudes across the
boundaries that will always exist.

One only has to look at colonialism and neo-colonialism to see this at
work -- the British Taipans in Hong Kong, the Dutch East India Company, and
so many other major colonial examples, both commercial and 'governmental',
in times gone by. And more recently, the trans-national company, with
managers of many different nationalities, in many different positions in
many different companies. Good managers will be able to succeed anywhere,
regardless of culture.

It comes down to the definition of 'good'. Naturally a narrow mind will not
be successful; a manager schooled in only one narrow area will not survive
the change to another; but a manager trained to appreciate different
cultures (both corporate and national) will be successful. Such a manager
will also be more successful, even if they never leave their home culture.
Is the problem perhaps the education of managers rather than the location of
the manager. And should we perhaps be thinking about Education rather than
Training. Too often managers are only trained. They do not have a rounded
education ...

But I may have changed the thread. Sorry.

(Context: I was born in NZ, spent 7 years in Australia, 5 years in Scotland
in management positions, 4 years in Hong Kong managing magazines and related
projects, and the last 14 years in NZ, working with and within many
different companies and enterprises.)

Regards,

BEVIS ENGLAND
Box 60-469, Titirangi, Auckland, New Zealand
Ph: +64-9-811 8024 Fax: +64-9-811 8025 (or 8014)
bevis@voyager.co.nz or bevis@telework.co.nz
Web site: www.telework.co.nz

Conna,

I have felt for some time now that the Internet will make it easier for 3rd
world countries to more towards a democratic style of government and remove
the barriers imposed by people not being able to understand one another or
how other nations work.

If you lived through the 1930s until now, you would probably recognize that
the United Nations and NATO started to bring the world into one world in the
1950s.

The Internet is now going to be the driving force to continue this.

I will predict that the Congress of the United States will not exist another
50 years in its present form. People are going to demand to represent
themselves by communicating through the Internet rather than elect
Representatives. After all, Congress was an invention of the people to gain
representation in a time when it took three to four days to ride a horse
from Boston to Washington. The House of Representatives and maybe the Senate
have done their best work. Its probably time to re-invent our government.

The freer we keep the net by allowing complete (within bounds to protect the
young) freedom of expression, no matter how repugnant some of it is to some
of us personally, the better off we will be as a planet.

This century has been the most bloodthirsty one in history. Given time, a
free Internet can topple Kings and dictators like no other device ever put
in our hands.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Conna Condon" <gandolf@CYBERVERSE.COM>
To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Organisational culture


> Hi Mike,
>
> Just the person who's experience will give me the kind of opinions I would
> like to hear.
>
> When I teach Strategic Information Management the issue of regulating the
> internet comes up during the ethics section. After allowing some free
> discussion, I typically ask them which countries laws, regulations, and
> culture should control the internet. A few of the culturally insulated
are
> still unaware that the US way isn't the only way.
>
> Now, my question ... make that questions. Are you beginning to see the
> level of international exposure and communication impacting people's
> cultural awareness and tolerence? Is the internet making it easier for
> expatriates to work in different cultures? Will the internet move the
world
> to a single culture ... greater acceptance of differing cultures.... or
more
> segregation by culture ... or...?
>
> Take a Chance
> Conna Condon
> Lifelong Student & Teacher
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hanson Mike" <mhanson@ESCEM.FR>
> To: <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 5:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Organisational culture
>
>
> Sylvie,
>
> I find your question very interesting and complicated at the same time. I
> just received a letter from a management "expert" last week who stated
that
> he didn't believe the reason for failure of many expatriate managers had
> anything to do with cultural/organizational differences. My first
thoughts
> were that this person had never lived outside of his own country or if he
> had he was completely unaware of his environment. My fields are OB and
> Management/Managing People. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest (USA), but
I
> also spent considerable time in the Midwest (USA). I got married in
> Zimbabwe to an American girl who spent most of her life in Zimbabwe. For
> the past 12 years I have lived and worked in France. I am fascinated by
how
> different organizational cultures can be, as well as how much management
> methods and styles can vary. Organizations are extremely complex living
> machines, with emotions, past culture, history, new and not-so-new
> employees, souls, etc.. And they are often run or re-organized by new
> individuals that have little knowledge of the family they have just
adopted
> and promised to parent. When one lives in two cultures that are extremely
> different in terms of organizational culture (Hofestede) the differences
are
> enormous. I can't imagine, for example, an Englishman, unfamiliar with
> French organizational culture, being able to successfully manage a French
> Company that has a French Board of Directors and French Employees. If
> anyone has ever heard of this happening please let me know.
>
> Of course it would take pages (books) to explain why I think it would be
> difficult for the outsider to make it work, but the main reason is that it
> would be hard for a foreigner to change his/her management style and
methods
> to an organization with such a different culture. I believe that even in
> the same country organizations have very different cultures, and therefore
> they need to be managed depending on history, people, products,
technology,
> etc... So, either the management must be adapted to fit the culture, or
> organizational change must be planned very very carefully.
>
> My two bits worth:)
>
>
> Mike Hanson
> Professor, Department of Management
> Graduate Course Leader, "International Management"
> ESCEM School of Business
> mhanson@escem.fr
> Tel. (33) 05.49.60.58.34
>
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De: SYLVIE STEWARD [SMTP:STEWARS@HOPE.AC.UK]
> > Date: lundi 20 d�cembre 1999 14:00
> > �: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> > Objet: Organisational culture
> >
> > Hello All
> > This is my first posting but I have enjoyed reading all the mails and
have
> > learnt a great deal, I particularly liked the recent bad decisions
thread.
> >
> > I would like to ask the list if any of you have any opinions on culture
in
> > organisations, particularly the concept of organisational culture and
its
> > significance when addressing the management of organisations. (with
> > reference to your own organisation or just general comments)
> > Regards
> > Sylvie
> >
> >
> >
> > ***************************************************
> > Sylvie Steward
> > Staff Development/Technical Advisor
> > Learning & Teaching Development Centre
> > Liverpool Hope University College
> > Hope Park, L16 9JD.
> > Tel: 0151 291 2032
> > stewars@hope.ac.uk
> > http://hopelive.hope.ac.uk
> >
> >
> > *************************************************
>

On 20 Dec 99, at 12:46, Dick Montgomery wrote:

> Conna,
>
> I have felt for some time now that the Internet will make it easier for
> 3rd world countries to more towards a democratic style of government and
> remove the barriers imposed by people not being able to understand one
> another or how other nations work.

While predicting the future is really speculation, the evidece at the
moment is that the exact opposite is happening, because the rates
of use increase in the highly industrialized countries versus "3rd
world" are so disparate, that the gap is getting bigger in terms of
usage every day.

As is the same in North America. The gap between have's and
have not's within each country now goes beyond the staples such
as money, housing, health care, but includes internet access. So
now the information gap is increasing.


Visit the work911.com supersite at http://www.work911.com
for work related articles, or to find almost anything including
book reviews and suggestions, discussion lists and more.

Dear Sylvie,

I'm up to my neck in a PhD about culture and how it impactson strategy
making - mail me if you're interested.

Brian Smith

b.smith@cranfield.ac.uk

When it comes to the internet and the haves vs have nots, I found it very
interesting in a recent study of current trends that it was reported in the
Presiden'ts report on the economy that the Have's and have nots both have
internet ... but the lower-middle-incomes are the missing group.

The poor have access from various programs ... the rich from purchase. But
the lower-middle's don't qualify for the programs (although they fund them)
and don't have enough money to have internet.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Bacal <rbacal@ESCAPE.CA>
To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU <MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Organisational culture


>On 20 Dec 99, at 12:46, Dick Montgomery wrote:
>
>> Conna,
>>
>> I have felt for some time now that the Internet will make it easier for
>> 3rd world countries to more towards a democratic style of government and
>> remove the barriers imposed by people not being able to understand one
>> another or how other nations work.
>
>While predicting the future is really speculation, the evidece at the
>moment is that the exact opposite is happening, because the rates
>of use increase in the highly industrialized countries versus "3rd
>world" are so disparate, that the gap is getting bigger in terms of
>usage every day.
>
>As is the same in North America. The gap between have's and
>have not's within each country now goes beyond the staples such
>as money, housing, health care, but includes internet access. So
>now the information gap is increasing.
>
>
>Visit the work911.com supersite at http://www.work911.com
>for work related articles, or to find almost anything including
>book reviews and suggestions, discussion lists and more.
>

On 22 Dec 99, at 17:09, Conna Condon wrote:

> When it comes to the internet and the haves vs have nots, I found it very
> interesting in a recent study of current trends that it was reported in
> the Presiden'ts report on the economy that the Have's and have nots both
> have internet ... but the lower-middle-incomes are the missing group.

I suspect this is misleading, and a misunderstanding of some of
the issues. What one needs to look at is a) access to the internet
in the home, and b) access to the internet outside (eg. schools).

If you think that the have not's have equal access to internet
services the way you or I do, right now, I have a bridge to sell you.
And while the have not's will struggle for a considerable time to get
basic convenient access, the have's are now moving to wireless
access.

The gap will INCREASE both socially and globally. It's that simple.

>
> The poor have access from various programs ... the rich from purchase.
> But the lower-middle's don't qualify for the programs (although they fund
> them) and don't have enough money to have internet.

What percentage of people living below the poverty line have similar
access to the internet to people in middle class and above?


Visit the work911.com supersite at http://www.work911.com
for work related articles, or to find almost anything including
book reviews and suggestions, discussion lists and more.