Discussion: View Thread

Case study of the use of listserv discussion lists. The following is provided for discussion, and is not intended to illustrate either effective or ineffective handling of a classroom situation.

As part of the approach to teaching a management class, a professor requireed students to subscribe to a listserv. The owner of a listserv has a number of options in setting up the topology of the listserv communications. The default at the professor's institution is a digraph tree, with the instructor at the root. All communication goes from the instructor to all the students, as a way of disseminating information. The digraph does not allow students to communicate with each other.

The professor in question modified the topology to form an undirected star topology, in which any member of the class could send messages to all other class members, and in which any replies also went to the entire class by default.

The features provided to work with listserves are a function of the email client used: the Pegasus and Eudora clients, as just two examples, prompt the user, when working with a listserv, to respond to the entire list or just to the originator of the message; however, none of the students in the class used Pegasus or Eudora. The university provided faculty and students Outlook and Outlook Express, both of which use the list default for replies, and allow no other option; likewise, the clients used by most of the students, AOL and hotmail, always use the list default. As a result, private messages were frequently sent to the entire class.

One problem encountered was with the policy that students could inquire about assignments, grades, etc. via email, since email provides a reasonable assurance that replies will go to the intended party. However, if the request were sent to the listserv, rather than to the professor, a reply would (and did) go to the entire class.

The Outlook email client shows only the sender's name in the header, and does not indicate as one is reading a request that replies will go to the listserv; only by checking the headers in the reply is the fact that the reply is going to the list revealed to the sender. Thus, in a careless moment, a response intended for just one student was sent to the entire list.

Since this happened at the end of the semester, the listserv was terminated immediately, so that any further requests for information could not be sent via listserv, and there would be no further potential for private responses to go to the listserv.

The class was polled (prior to the grade request fiasco), and many of them really appreciated being given the ability to hold class discussions via the listserv, rather than just having it for uni-directional class announcements from the professor to the class. Emails sent after the fiasco indicated that several students were very upset at the breach of privacy.

Questions:
Should the professor resume use of listserves at all in future classes, or stop using them given the potential for mistakes?

If the listserves are used, should the topology be set up for class discussions, or just as unidirectional instruments for disseminating information to the entire class?

>>Should the professor resume use of listserves at all in future classes,
or stop using them given the potential for mistakes?

Considering the previous discussion thread on this listserv concerning the
need to train individuals in the correct use and protocol for email, I
would think that the relatively safe environment of a class would be a good
place to learn how to also deal with listservs. I find it particularly
interesting that, in your example, it was the professor who inappropriately
posted a response to the entire listserv rather than to the specific
student involved. "Nothing teaches as well as a bad example." While the
example cited would certainly lead to some temporary embarrassment, I would
think that it would stick in students' minds as an excellent example of why
one needs to be careful when dealing with email.

Also, if we banned the use of any instructional tool that had the potential
for mistakes, I seriously doubt a single chemistry lab could ever be held
again!

>>If the listserves are used, should the topology be set up for class
discussions, or just as unidirectional instruments for disseminating
information to the entire class?

In my experience, unidirectional email is generally spam. If there is a
need for unidirectional communication, a more effective tool is a simple
web page that the students be required to review on a regular basis. This
also helps encourage student responsibility for keeping uptodate with
important information -- a critical lesson to learn in today's
information-rich environment.

Steve Harper
============================================
PRAGMATEK Consulting Group, Ltd.
Steve.Harper@pragmatek.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
"The strongest human instinct is to impart information.
The second strongest is to resist it."
-- Kenneth Grahame
============================================

> Questions:
> Should the professor resume use of listserves at all in future classes, or stop using them given the potential for mistakes?

How about if a little bit of time was taken at the beginning of the
course to train the students in how to use the listserv? Then mistakes
might be prevented and everyone would be happy?

>
> If the listserves are used, should the topology be set up for class discussions, or just as unidirectional instruments for disseminating information to the entire class?

I am currently studying via the computer, and find that it is always
beneficial to have access to "private" conversation as well as the group
discussions. Having a unidirectional listserv seems to be such a waste
of technology!
IMHO
regards
Ilene

Ilene and all -

I'm not at all confident that training will cause people to use the
internet properly. Consider that when one of signs onto this list, we
receive several messages telling us how to sign off, suspend messages, and
making suggestions on how to best use this net. (Items such as no
attachments, courtesy, etc.)

Yet we see repeated examples of people who do not take to this training;
consider how many people have send a signoff message to the entire list,
showing that they do not remember that it will annoy everyone and won't
work for them.

And in teaching my students how to enter simulation decisions and to print
them (in the Business Strategy Game); nearly all of them fail to get it
right, even though they know they will have to do it and they also have a
complete book of instructions.

Training doesn't seem to do the job; I'm not sure why. Perhaps it looks
so obvious, when it often isn't!

Tim Edlund, Morgan State Univ.

On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, ILENE GILBORN wrote:

> > Questions:
> > Should the professor resume use of listserves at all in future classes, or stop using them given the potential for mistakes?
>
> How about if a little bit of time was taken at the beginning of the
> course to train the students in how to use the listserv? Then mistakes
> might be prevented and everyone would be happy?
>
[balance deleted]

On 23 Dec 99, at 15:24, Tim Edlund wrote:

> Ilene and all -
>
> I'm not at all confident that training will cause people to use the
> internet properly. Consider that when one of signs onto this list, we
> receive several messages telling us how to sign off, suspend messages, and
> making suggestions on how to best use this net. (Items such as no
> attachments, courtesy, etc.)
>
> Yet we see repeated examples of people who do not take to this training;
> consider how many people have send a signoff message to the entire list,
> showing that they do not remember that it will annoy everyone and won't
> work for them.

Tim, I'm not sure we can consider a notice posted in email as
"training", so I would be hesitant to draw any conclusions about
training, on the basis of people ignoring email messages.

If that's "training" I guess all us trainers are kinda easily replaced
<arrgh>


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Tim Edlund wrote:

> [snip]
> And in teaching my students how to enter simulation decisions and to
> print
> them (in the Business Strategy Game); nearly all of them fail to get
> it
> right, even though they know they will have to do it and they also
> have a
> complete book of instructions.
>
> Training doesn't seem to do the job; I'm not sure why. Perhaps it
> looks
> so obvious, when it often isn't!

What did that person on TV say? "Easy for me, difficult for you." ?

A teacher's perennial complaint - how come they don't get it? Speaking
from personal experience and direct observation, it is not easy for
them. The process must be broken down further, until each step is
understandable by the student. In the village, the Griot (sp?) tells
the same story on many occasions. The child attempts to dance with the
adults many times and many years. Why are we different? We (sometimes)
make detailed written instructions, but the student must still go
through them multiple times before they get boring.

See my web site for a concrete example. How can you get 90% of the
students to perform a Stuent 't' comparison properly each time, on the
final exam? You write it out. An algorithm. I'm working one 2 others
now, one of which is aimed at resolving exactly the quesiton posed
above.

Of course, the instructor can still get frustrated. No cure for that,
yet :(

Jay
--
Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA

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