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The control game has changed

  • 1.  The control game has changed

    Posted 08-11-2009 09:32
     Colleagues,

    A few boards of directors of US corporations have shown relevance as representatives of shareholders recently.  These corporations have Uncle Sam's bailout money in exchange for influence on questionable uses of funds including replacing CEOs, game-changing, bankruptcy, and others.  This demonstrates what responsible board members are expected by shareholders to do for their positions.

    Corporate CEOs who are also chairman of their boards have become too powerful.  As Lehman Brothers case illustrates, shareholders buy and sell stocks based on the lottery, and show little interest in keeping CEOs diligent and responsive.  Members of boards are usually only those recommended by CEO control boards.  If members show too much independence they are replace by not being recommended.  How can we change this game and as a consequence the Wall Street multi-million dollar bonuses for moving other people's money around?

    George Graen

    /jag





  • 2.  The control game has changed

    Posted 08-11-2009 11:42
    I think the only avenue left open is government regulation. Way back in the 1930s, Adolph Berle and Gardner Means pointed out that the separation of ownership and management in the modern corporation left management free to pursue its own aims and agendas. Serving the stockholders or the stakeholders is a pleasant fiction intended to disguise the ugly reality of unfettered executive power. If power corrupts and if absolute power corrupts absolutely, then that's what I think exists in the corporate behemoths that rule the world today. The only agency left that can hold management accountable is the government.

    --
    Regards,

    Fred Nickols
    Managing Partner
    Distance Consulting, LLC
    nickols@att.net
    www.nickols.us

    "Assistance at A Distance"

    -------------- Original message ----------------------
    From: George Graen <Lmxlotus@AOL.COM>
    >
    > Colleagues,
    > A few boards of directors of US corporations have shown relevance as
    > representatives of shareholders recently. These corporations have Uncle Sam’s
    > bailout money in exchange for influence on questionable uses of funds
    > including replacing CEOs, game-changing, bankruptcy, and others. This
    > demonstrates what responsible board members are expected by shareholders to do
    > for
    > their positions.
    > Corporate CEOs who are also chairman of their boards have become too
    > powerful. As Lehman Brothers case illustrates, shareholders buy and sell
    > stocks
    > based on the lottery, and show little interest in keeping CEOs diligent
    > and responsive. Members of boards are usually only those recommended by CEO
    > control boards. If members show too much independence they are replace by
    > not being recommended. How can we change this game and as a consequence
    > the Wall Street multi-million dollar bonuses for moving other people’s money
    > around?
    > George Graen


  • 3.  The control game has changed

    Posted 08-11-2009 12:20

    It seems to me that there has to be some semblence of balance in what we are teaching; the focus in business courses that I have witnessed has always been with regard to returning the shareholder their highest rate of return seemingly at the expense of the customer and some level of ethical behavior. The focus seems to be more on making money -- and by  that I mean millions and billions (for individuals and stockholders) with service to the customer being an afterthought along with developing great products and ethical behavior.

    I am not sure that the government is any better equipped to manage an organization, since the above are intrinsic personal values without which the individual, regardless of the rules that are laid down by the government, will always  be looking for ways to "game" the system.

     

    -rr


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: nickols@att.net
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:42:23 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
    Subject: Re: The control game has changed

    I think the only avenue left open is government regulation.  Way back in the 1930s, Adolph Berle and Gardner Means pointed out that the separation of ownership and management in the modern corporation left management free to pursue its own aims and agendas.  Serving the stockholders or the stakeholders is a pleasant fiction intended to disguise the ugly reality of unfettered executive power.  If power corrupts and if absolute power corrupts absolutely, then that's what I think exists in the corporate behemoths that rule the world today.  The only agency left that can hold management accountable is the government.

    --
    Regards,

    Fred Nickols
    Managing Partner
    Distance Consulting, LLC
    nickols@att.net
    www.nickols.us

    "Assistance at A Distance"
      
    -------------- Original message ----------------------
    From: George Graen <Lmxlotus@AOL.COM>
    >
    > Colleagues,  
    > A few boards of directors of US corporations  have shown relevance as
    > representatives of shareholders recently.  These corporations have Uncle Sam's  
    > bailout money in exchange for influence on questionable uses of funds
    > including  replacing CEOs, game-changing, bankruptcy, and others.  This
    > demonstrates what responsible board  members are expected by shareholders to do
    > for
    > their  positions.
    > Corporate CEOs who are also chairman of their  boards have become too
    > powerful.  As  Lehman Brothers case illustrates, shareholders buy and sell
    > stocks
    > based on the  lottery, and show little interest in keeping CEOs diligent
    > and responsive.  Members of boards are usually only those  recommended by CEO
    > control boards.  If members show too much independence they are replace by
    > not being  recommended.  How can we change this  game and as a consequence
    > the Wall Street multi-million dollar bonuses for  moving other people's money
    > around?
    > George Graen



  • 4.  The control game has changed

    Posted 08-11-2009 13:03
    Perhaps the only greater fiction than management serving the interests of stockholders is that government can be held accountable. To me, the only viable method for addressing the agency problem is full disclosure. I agree that will probably require some type of regulatory intervention, but we've had plenty of examples of how government transparency ends up being everything but transparent.

    ________________________________________
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of nickols@att.net [nickols@att.net]
    Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:42 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: The control game has changed

    I think the only avenue left open is government regulation. Way back in the 1930s, Adolph Berle and Gardner Means pointed out that the separation of ownership and management in the modern corporation left management free to pursue its own aims and agendas. Serving the stockholders or the stakeholders is a pleasant fiction intended to disguise the ugly reality of unfettered executive power. If power corrupts and if absolute power corrupts absolutely, then that's what I think exists in the corporate behemoths that rule the world today. The only agency left that can hold management accountable is the government.

    --
    Regards,

    Fred Nickols
    Managing Partner
    Distance Consulting, LLC
    nickols@att.net
    www.nickols.us

    "Assistance at A Distance"

    -------------- Original message ----------------------
    From: George Graen <Lmxlotus@AOL.COM>
    >
    > Colleagues,
    > A few boards of directors of US corporations have shown relevance as
    > representatives of shareholders recently. These corporations have Uncle Sam’s
    > bailout money in exchange for influence on questionable uses of funds
    > including replacing CEOs, game-changing, bankruptcy, and others. This
    > demonstrates what responsible board members are expected by shareholders to do
    > for
    > their positions.
    > Corporate CEOs who are also chairman of their boards have become too
    > powerful. As Lehman Brothers case illustrates, shareholders buy and sell
    > stocks
    > based on the lottery, and show little interest in keeping CEOs diligent
    > and responsive. Members of boards are usually only those recommended by CEO
    > control boards. If members show too much independence they are replace by
    > not being recommended. How can we change this game and as a consequence
    > the Wall Street multi-million dollar bonuses for moving other people’s money
    > around?
    > George Graen


  • 5.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-12-2009 23:58
    Fred,
    Interesting hypothesis.
    Now will you explain how government can do what you envision if, in
    fact, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely?
    I and many others are interested in an explanation, even moreso in a
    case history.
    Jack Ring

    On Aug 11, 2009, at 8:42 AM, nickols@att.net wrote:

    > I think the only avenue left open is government regulation. Way
    > back in the 1930s, Adolph Berle and Gardner Means pointed out that
    > the separation of ownership and management in the modern corporation
    > left management free to pursue its own aims and agendas. Serving
    > the stockholders or the stakeholders is a pleasant fiction intended
    > to disguise the ugly reality of unfettered executive power. If
    > power corrupts and if absolute power corrupts absolutely, then
    > that's what I think exists in the corporate behemoths that rule the
    > world today. The only agency left that can hold management
    > accountable is the government.
    >
    > --
    > Regards,
    >
    > Fred Nickols
    > Managing Partner
    > Distance Consulting, LLC
    > nickols@att.net
    > www.nickols.us
    >
    > "Assistance at A Distance"
    >
    > -------------- Original message ----------------------
    > From: George Graen <Lmxlotus@AOL.COM>
    >>
    >> Colleagues,
    >> A few boards of directors of US corporations have shown relevance as
    >> representatives of shareholders recently. These corporations have
    >> Uncle Sam’s
    >> bailout money in exchange for influence on questionable uses of funds
    >> including replacing CEOs, game-changing, bankruptcy, and others.
    >> This
    >> demonstrates what responsible board members are expected by
    >> shareholders to do
    >> for
    >> their positions.
    >> Corporate CEOs who are also chairman of their boards have become too
    >> powerful. As Lehman Brothers case illustrates, shareholders buy
    >> and sell
    >> stocks
    >> based on the lottery, and show little interest in keeping CEOs
    >> diligent
    >> and responsive. Members of boards are usually only those
    >> recommended by CEO
    >> control boards. If members show too much independence they are
    >> replace by
    >> not being recommended. How can we change this game and as a
    >> consequence
    >> the Wall Street multi-million dollar bonuses for moving other
    >> people’s money
    >> around?
    >> George Graen


  • 6.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-14-2009 09:13
    For me, the book Black Market and Business Blues with Yvan Allaire explains
    some of it..

    Best,

    Sylvie Labelle




    > De : Jack Ring <jring@amug.org>
    > Répondre à : Management Education and Development Discussion
    > <MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
    > Date : Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:57:31 -0700
    > À : <MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
    > Objet : Re: The control game has changed
    >
    > Fred,
    > Interesting hypothesis.
    > Now will you explain how government can do what you envision if, in
    > fact, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely?
    > I and many others are interested in an explanation, even moreso in a
    > case history.
    > Jack Ring
    >
    > On Aug 11, 2009, at 8:42 AM, nickols@att.net wrote:
    >
    >> I think the only avenue left open is government regulation. Way
    >> back in the 1930s, Adolph Berle and Gardner Means pointed out that
    >> the separation of ownership and management in the modern corporation
    >> left management free to pursue its own aims and agendas. Serving
    >> the stockholders or the stakeholders is a pleasant fiction intended
    >> to disguise the ugly reality of unfettered executive power. If
    >> power corrupts and if absolute power corrupts absolutely, then
    >> that's what I think exists in the corporate behemoths that rule the
    >> world today. The only agency left that can hold management
    >> accountable is the government.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Regards,
    >>
    >> Fred Nickols
    >> Managing Partner
    >> Distance Consulting, LLC
    >> nickols@att.net
    >> www.nickols.us
    >>
    >> "Assistance at A Distance"
    >>
    >> -------------- Original message ----------------------
    >> From: George Graen <Lmxlotus@AOL.COM>
    >>>
    >>> Colleagues,
    >>> A few boards of directors of US corporations have shown relevance as
    >>> representatives of shareholders recently. These corporations have
    >>> Uncle Sam¹s
    >>> bailout money in exchange for influence on questionable uses of funds
    >>> including replacing CEOs, game-changing, bankruptcy, and others.
    >>> This
    >>> demonstrates what responsible board members are expected by
    >>> shareholders to do
    >>> for
    >>> their positions.
    >>> Corporate CEOs who are also chairman of their boards have become too
    >>> powerful. As Lehman Brothers case illustrates, shareholders buy
    >>> and sell
    >>> stocks
    >>> based on the lottery, and show little interest in keeping CEOs
    >>> diligent
    >>> and responsive. Members of boards are usually only those
    >>> recommended by CEO
    >>> control boards. If members show too much independence they are
    >>> replace by
    >>> not being recommended. How can we change this game and as a
    >>> consequence
    >>> the Wall Street multi-million dollar bonuses for moving other
    >>> people¹s money
    >>> around?
    >>> George Graen


  • 7.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-14-2009 13:15
    Hello,
     
    I agree that the control game has to change. One alternative is employee ownership. Employee owned companies tend to outperform the market and to be better places in which to work. The latest research on the performance of employee owned companies can be found at  http://www.esopassociation.org/media/media_stock_market_outperform.asp.
     
    If you want more information on both the performance of such organizations or the quality of work life in these organizations, I would suggest you visit the we sites of the National Center for Employee Ownership, ESOP Asccociation, and ESOP Association Canada.
     
    Frank
     
     
    Frank Shipper, Ph.D.
    Professor of Management &
    Chair of Management & Marketing Department
    Perdue School of Business
    Salisbury University
    Salisbury, MD  21801
    Phone: (410) 543-6333
    FAX: (410) 546-6208
    E-mail: fmshipper@salisbury.edu
    Home Page: http://faculty.salisbury.edu/~fmshipper/home/


  • 8.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-14-2009 13:45

    Interesting.  Years ago I made note of what I then called "the control problem."  I sent off my notes to Peter Drucker who replied saying that I was on the right track.  It might be of more interest and relevance now.  Anyone who's interested can find a copy at http://home.att.net/~essays/control_problem.pdf or by going to www.skullworks.com and looking under the Work & Management heading for the .htm version.

    Regards,

     

    Fred Nickols

    Managing Partner

    Distance Consulting LLC

    nickols@att.net | www.nickols.us

    740-504-0000

     

    "Assistance at a Distance"SM

     



  • 9.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-14-2009 23:11
    Fred,
    Nice paper. Is this intended to respond to my request that you explain how goverenment can be a non-corruptable 'controller?'
    Jack Ring
    ---- Original Message -----
    Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:44 AM
    Subject: Re: The control game has changed

    Interesting.  Years ago I made note of what I then called “the control problem.”  I sent off my notes to Peter Drucker who replied saying that I was on the right track.  It might be of more interest and relevance now.  Anyone who’s interested can find a copy at http://home.att.net/~essays/control_problem.pdf or by going to www.skullworks.com and looking under the Work & Management heading for the .htm version.

    Regards,

     

    Fred Nickols

    Managing Partner

    Distance Consulting LLC

    nickols@att.net | www.nickols.us

    740-504-0000

     

    "Assistance at a Distance"SM

     



  • 10.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-15-2009 07:52
    No, Jack; I was simply reacting to the subject line. "The Control Problem" paper is about 25 years old. I believe I wrote the first version in 1984 and I've never gotten around to doing anything with it.

    --
    Regards,

    Fred Nickols
    Managing Partner
    Distance Consulting, LLC
    nickols@att.net
    www.nickols.us

    "Assistance at A Distance"

    -------------- Original message ----------------------
    From: Jack Ring <jring@AMUG.ORG>
    >
    > Fred,
    > Nice paper. Is this intended to respond to my request that you explain how
    > goverenment can be a non-corruptable 'controller?'
    > Jack Ring
    > ---- Original Message -----
    > From: Fred Nickols
    > To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:44 AM
    > Subject: Re: The control game has changed
    >
    >
    > Interesting. Years ago I made note of what I then called "the control
    > problem." I sent off my notes to Peter Drucker who replied saying that I was on
    > the right track. It might be of more interest and relevance now. Anyone who's
    > interested can find a copy at http://home.att.net/~essays/control_problem.pdf or
    > by going to www.skullworks.com and looking under the Work & Management heading
    > for the .htm version.


  • 11.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-15-2009 11:10
    In a message dated 9/15/2009 6:53:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, nickols@att.net writes:
    No, Jack; I was simply reacting to the subject line.  "The Control Problem" paper is about 25 years old.  I believe I wrote the first version in 1984 and I've never gotten around to doing anything with it.

    --
    Regards,

    Fred Nickols
    Managing Partner
    Distance Consulting, LLC
    nickols@att.net
    www.nickols.us

    Fred,

    CEO's of large multinational corporations, do-nothing regulators and Congress almost destroyed their global control sandbox (our 9/11/09).  Now we have an opportunity to fix the control of the sandbox.  What do you suggest?  We could accept their "my bads" and leave them to repeat our near financial "death experience".  We could learn a lesson from our experience and change the rules and the referees for the sandbox game.  We need a new stockholders protection plan to go along with a new consumer protection plan and a government regulator oversight plan.  We need not design brand-new programs for global sandbox regulation.  We need only enforce new and existing sandbox rules with real diligence and consequences.  We are bright enough to write rules that work, but can we rise above political and economic greed?  We are only human and must choose to be controlled by our animal nature.  For once, why can't we choose to be controlled by our knowledge?

    George Graen, CSMS

    /jag



  • 12.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-15-2009 11:57

    I went to the archives and re-read this thread.  It begins and most recently ends with posts from George Graen that seem to focus on what I call the "looting" perpetrated by corporate execs, especially in but not limited to the financial services industry.

    An interesting parallel occurred to me.  The fall of national regimes is often marked by the incumbent leaders (if they can be called that) absconding with large amounts of the wealth of their nations.  Perhaps we are witnessing something similar; unfettered capitalism is collapsing and the capitalists in charge are making off with as much capital as they can.

    Regards,

     

    Fred Nickols

    Managing Partner

    Distance Consulting LLC

    nickols@att.net | www.nickols.us

    740-504-0000

     

    "Assistance at a Distance"SM

     



  • 13.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-15-2009 21:53
    Thanks, then will you be responding to my original question?
    I really think those who opt for 'the government' to control anything
    should explain how they envision staffing such a government.
    Jack Ring
    On Sep 15, 2009, at 4:52 AM, nickols@att.net wrote:

    > No, Jack; I was simply reacting to the subject line. "The Control
    > Problem" paper is about 25 years old. I believe I wrote the first
    > version in 1984 and I've never gotten around to doing anything with
    > it.
    >
    > --
    > Regards,
    >
    > Fred Nickols
    > Managing Partner
    > Distance Consulting, LLC
    > nickols@att.net
    > www.nickols.us
    >
    > "Assistance at A Distance"
    >
    > -------------- Original message ----------------------
    > From: Jack Ring <jring@AMUG.ORG>
    >>
    >> Fred,
    >> Nice paper. Is this intended to respond to my request that you
    >> explain how
    >> goverenment can be a non-corruptable 'controller?'
    >> Jack Ring
    >> ---- Original Message -----
    >> From: Fred Nickols
    >> To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:44 AM
    >> Subject: Re: The control game has changed
    >>
    >>
    >> Interesting. Years ago I made note of what I then called "the
    >> control
    >> problem." I sent off my notes to Peter Drucker who replied saying
    >> that I was on
    >> the right track. It might be of more interest and relevance now.
    >> Anyone who's
    >> interested can find a copy at http://home.att.net/~essays/control_problem.pdf
    >> or
    >> by going to www.skullworks.com and looking under the Work &
    >> Management heading
    >> for the .htm version.


  • 14.  The control game has changed

    Posted 09-16-2009 07:15
    Well, Jack, I might respond to your original question and then again I might not. It strikes me as a question that warrants a little examination. Your question clearly challenges the notion of having the government control anything. It also divides us all into two camps: those would would opt for that and those who wouldn't. It further seems that by posing the challenge you fall into the group that wouldn't have the government control anything. Juxtaposing "staffing" with "non-corruptible" and posing that as a problem implies to me that you view the current means of staffing government agencies as producing incumbents that are easily corrupted (leaving those who do the corrupting out of the equation). Overall, your question seems headed down a path toward an argument that can be summed up as "Let's not have any government regulation because we can't get honest, competent regulators."

    Do I have that about right? If so, I'll respond. If not, please clarify.

    --
    Regards,

    Fred Nickols
    Managing Partner
    Distance Consulting, LLC
    nickols@att.net
    www.nickols.us

    "Assistance at A Distance"

    -------------- Original message ----------------------
    From: Jack Ring <jring@AMUG.ORG>
    >
    > Thanks, then will you be responding to my original question?
    > I really think those who opt for 'the government' to control anything
    > should explain how they envision staffing such a government.
    > Jack Ring
    > On Sep 15, 2009, at 4:52 AM, nickols@att.net wrote:
    >
    > > No, Jack; I was simply reacting to the subject line. "The Control
    > > Problem" paper is about 25 years old. I believe I wrote the first
    > > version in 1984 and I've never gotten around to doing anything with
    > > it.