Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  Reference search

    Posted 04-09-2002 13:00
    From: Theo. R. Leverenz [mailto:eppa@juno.com]

    I've come across several "what is" and "how to" articles, articles with
    showcase examples, and articles encouraging innovation. However, I've
    found very, very, very few articles addressing the issue of MEASUREMENT
    of innovation. Anyone have any directions to places I should check?

    .....Theo
    __________________________________________
    EPPA Consulting
    Theo. R. Leverenz, Ph.D.
    1116 Comanche Trail , Georgetown, KY 40324-1071
    Voice: 502-867-0157 << | >> Pager: 859-244-5314
    I Corinthians 10:13
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  • 2.  Reference search

    Posted 04-11-2002 11:04
    From: Leslie, Annette [mailto:A.LESLIE@cranfield.ac.uk]

    Help! - I've got just the same question - can anyone input plse?
    regards Annette Leslie, Cranfield University, UK

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Theo. R. Leverenz [mailto:eppa@juno.com]

    I've come across several "what is" and "how to" articles, articles with
    showcase examples, and articles encouraging innovation. However, I've
    found very, very, very few articles addressing the issue of MEASUREMENT
    of innovation. Anyone have any directions to places I should check?

    .....Theo


  • 3.  Reference search

    Posted 04-11-2002 18:40
    Hi

    We've just been looking at measures of innovation and of network capability
    and found some great stuff in Results-Based Leadership by Dave Uhlrich and
    others, and Horizontal Networks by Ostroff, Building Social Capital in
    Organisations by Cohen and Prusak, the Balanced scorecard by Kaplan and
    Norton and the Corporate Soul (on the application of complexity theory to
    organisations).

    The central idea being that if your networks are working effectively both
    within the organisation and outside of the organisation, if your culture
    supports trusta and staff are engaged at work, and if your leaders are
    working effectively, innovation will be an outcome.

    However, there doesn't appear to any easy way of identifying indicators
    except by taking what these authors and others are saying about how
    organisations release innovation and turning this around to say, what
    therefore should we be seeing in the organisation and how would we measure
    this.

    I believe that measuring innovation would be easier in organsations such as
    IT or manufacturing where you could easily measure the time to market and
    number of new ideas, but I'm working with public sector organisations, where
    these distinctions aren't as clear.

    Hope this helps

    Amanda Martin

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Charles Wankel [mailto:wankelc@optonline.net]
    Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 1:04 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: Reference search


    From: Leslie, Annette [mailto:A.LESLIE@cranfield.ac.uk]

    Help! - I've got just the same question - can anyone input plse?
    regards Annette Leslie, Cranfield University, UK

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Theo. R. Leverenz [mailto:eppa@juno.com]

    I've come across several "what is" and "how to" articles, articles with
    showcase examples, and articles encouraging innovation. However, I've
    found very, very, very few articles addressing the issue of MEASUREMENT
    of innovation. Anyone have any directions to places I should check?

    .....Theo


  • 4.  Reference search

    Posted 04-11-2002 23:17
    Amanda,

    I am concerend about the attention given to measurement as a method of
    understanding. It seems that managers are not expected to have any tacit or
    intuitive understanding of their organisations.

    What would happen of you llimited your understanding of your family or your
    workmates, or even your work perofrmance my measurements.

    Would it not be better to see measurements as merely supplemental to a
    deeper knoweldge of the organisation and its innovation?

    Yours

    Gray Southon


    At 08:39 AM 4/12/02 +1000, you wrote:
    >Hi
    >
    >We've just been looking at measures of innovation and of network capability
    >and found some great stuff in Results-Based Leadership by Dave Uhlrich and
    >others, and Horizontal Networks by Ostroff, Building Social Capital in
    >Organisations by Cohen and Prusak, the Balanced scorecard by Kaplan and
    >Norton and the Corporate Soul (on the application of complexity theory to
    >organisations).
    >
    >The central idea being that if your networks are working effectively both
    >within the organisation and outside of the organisation, if your culture
    >supports trusta and staff are engaged at work, and if your leaders are
    >working effectively, innovation will be an outcome.
    >
    >However, there doesn't appear to any easy way of identifying indicators
    >except by taking what these authors and others are saying about how
    >organisations release innovation and turning this around to say, what
    >therefore should we be seeing in the organisation and how would we measure
    >this.
    >
    >I believe that measuring innovation would be easier in organsations such as
    >IT or manufacturing where you could easily measure the time to market and
    >number of new ideas, but I'm working with public sector organisations, where
    >these distinctions aren't as clear.
    >
    >Hope this helps
    >
    >Amanda Martin
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Charles Wankel [mailto:wankelc@optonline.net]
    >Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 1:04 AM
    >To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    >Subject: Re: Reference search
    >
    >
    >From: Leslie, Annette [mailto:A.LESLIE@cranfield.ac.uk]
    >
    >Help! - I've got just the same question - can anyone input plse?
    >regards Annette Leslie, Cranfield University, UK
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Theo. R. Leverenz [mailto:eppa@juno.com]
    >
    >I've come across several "what is" and "how to" articles, articles with
    >showcase examples, and articles encouraging innovation. However, I've
    >found very, very, very few articles addressing the issue of MEASUREMENT
    >of innovation. Anyone have any directions to places I should check?
    >
    >.....Theo
    >
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Gray Southon
    Honorary Research Associate
    University of Technology, Sydney, Australia
    Director, Southon Consulting.
    Ph 02 9524 7822, mobile: 0416 295 056 Fax 02 9531 0781
    email: gsouthon@ozemail.com.au
    Personal Web Site http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gsouthon/


  • 5.  Reference search

    Posted 04-12-2002 03:28
    Hi Gary

    I would agree if this was the only thing we are doing - it is in fact
    probably the smallest part of a change agenda that includes leadership
    development, building learning networks and communities, creating better
    relationships across our organisation and working collaboratively on key
    strategic initiatives. But we are also accountable and therefore wanted to
    identify how we would know if these things are delivering performance
    outcomes

    NB your question tells me that I shouldn't write emails quite so quickly as
    I seem to have come across as focusing on something I didn't think I was
    going for.

    Amanda

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gray Southon [mailto:gsouthon@ozemail.com.au]
    Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 1:17 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: Reference search


    Amanda,

    I am concerend about the attention given to measurement as a method of
    understanding. It seems that managers are not expected to have any tacit or
    intuitive understanding of their organisations.

    What would happen of you llimited your understanding of your family or your
    workmates, or even your work perofrmance my measurements.

    Would it not be better to see measurements as merely supplemental to a
    deeper knoweldge of the organisation and its innovation?

    Yours

    Gray Southon


    At 08:39 AM 4/12/02 +1000, you wrote:
    >Hi
    >
    >We've just been looking at measures of innovation and of network capability
    >and found some great stuff in Results-Based Leadership by Dave Uhlrich and
    >others, and Horizontal Networks by Ostroff, Building Social Capital in
    >Organisations by Cohen and Prusak, the Balanced scorecard by Kaplan and
    >Norton and the Corporate Soul (on the application of complexity theory to
    >organisations).
    >
    >The central idea being that if your networks are working effectively both
    >within the organisation and outside of the organisation, if your culture
    >supports trusta and staff are engaged at work, and if your leaders are
    >working effectively, innovation will be an outcome.
    >
    >However, there doesn't appear to any easy way of identifying indicators
    >except by taking what these authors and others are saying about how
    >organisations release innovation and turning this around to say, what
    >therefore should we be seeing in the organisation and how would we measure
    >this.
    >
    >I believe that measuring innovation would be easier in organsations such as
    >IT or manufacturing where you could easily measure the time to market and
    >number of new ideas, but I'm working with public sector organisations,
    where
    >these distinctions aren't as clear.
    >
    >Hope this helps
    >
    >Amanda Martin
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Charles Wankel [mailto:wankelc@optonline.net]
    >Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 1:04 AM
    >To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    >Subject: Re: Reference search
    >
    >
    >From: Leslie, Annette [mailto:A.LESLIE@cranfield.ac.uk]
    >
    >Help! - I've got just the same question - can anyone input plse?
    >regards Annette Leslie, Cranfield University, UK
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Theo. R. Leverenz [mailto:eppa@juno.com]
    >
    >I've come across several "what is" and "how to" articles, articles with
    >showcase examples, and articles encouraging innovation. However, I've
    >found very, very, very few articles addressing the issue of MEASUREMENT
    >of innovation. Anyone have any directions to places I should check?
    >
    >.....Theo
    >
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Gray Southon
    Honorary Research Associate
    University of Technology, Sydney, Australia
    Director, Southon Consulting.
    Ph 02 9524 7822, mobile: 0416 295 056 Fax 02 9531 0781
    email: gsouthon@ozemail.com.au
    Personal Web Site http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gsouthon/


  • 6.  reference search

    Posted 04-12-2002 10:08
    From: Nicholas W. Twigg [mailto:twiggnw@hal.lamar.edu]

    IRT measurement below. What is the writer saying here? I seem to have
    heard this argument before (can't remember where). Do I not measure all
    that I seek to understand? Isn't intuition a comparison of something
    with something else. If my intuition is not a measure what is it? Of
    course, how do I know if my intuition has any basis in reality (one of
    my personal issues, LOL!!). I can intuit that all women are intelligent
    and that all women are pretty, but it is not logical that all pretty
    women are intelligent, or are they?

    Can I understand anything without a frame of reference?
    just a thought,
    Nick

    >
    > Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:16:43 +1000
    > From: Gray Southon <gsouthon@ozemail.com.au>
    > Subject: Re: Reference search
    >
    > Amanda,
    >
    > I am concerned about the attention given to measurement as a
    method of
    > understanding. It seems that managers are not expected to have any
    tacit or
    > intuitive understanding of their organisations.
    > What would happen of you limited your understanding of your
    family or
    > your
    > workmates, or even your work performance my measurements.
    > Would it not be better to see measurements as merely supplemental
    to a
    > deeper knowledge of the organisation and its innovation?
    > Yours
    > Gray Southon
    >


  • 7.  Reference search

    Posted 04-15-2002 07:00
    Hi Amanda,

    Perhaps I have projected something onto you that was not appropriate.
    However, the way that you were talking about measures were thst it seemed
    that they were expected to stand by themselves as objective evaluations.

    I would also like to comment on your statemet:

    >But we are also accountable and therefore wanted to
    >identify how we would know if these things are delivering performance
    >outcomes.

    I realise that there are many demands for indicators to demonstrate level
    of performance from both managers and public. But there is a very real
    issue of how validly one can present a complex process by a few parameters.
    It seems many assume that if you present some information that is better
    than nothing. However, a few convenient parameters may grossly distort
    reality, especially if they are used as incentives (e.g. mortality figures
    for hospitals act as an incentive to minimise critical admissions).

    Not that measure are necessarily bad, but there is plenty of evidence that
    they are often highly problematic, and i see little evidence that people
    are aware of the complexities of measures.

    Yours

    Gray Southon


    At 05:27 PM 4/12/02 +1000, you wrote:
    >Hi Gary
    >
    >I would agree if this was the only thing we are doing - it is in fact
    >probably the smallest part of a change agenda that includes leadership
    >development, building learning networks and communities, creating better
    >relationships across our organisation and working collaboratively on key
    >strategic initiatives. >
    >NB your question tells me that I shouldn't write emails quite so quickly as
    >I seem to have come across as focusing on something I didn't think I was
    >going for.
    >
    >Amanda
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Gray Southon [mailto:gsouthon@ozemail.com.au]
    >Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 1:17 PM
    >To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    >Subject: Re: Reference search
    >
    >
    >Amanda,
    >
    >I am concerend about the attention given to measurement as a method of
    >understanding. It seems that managers are not expected to have any tacit or
    >intuitive understanding of their organisations.
    >
    >What would happen of you llimited your understanding of your family or your
    >workmates, or even your work perofrmance my measurements.
    >
    >Would it not be better to see measurements as merely supplemental to a
    >deeper knoweldge of the organisation and its innovation?
    >
    >Yours
    >
    >Gray Southon
    >
    >
    >At 08:39 AM 4/12/02 +1000, you wrote:
    >>Hi
    >>
    >>We've just been looking at measures of innovation and of network capability
    >>and found some great stuff in Results-Based Leadership by Dave Uhlrich and
    >>others, and Horizontal Networks by Ostroff, Building Social Capital in
    >>Organisations by Cohen and Prusak, the Balanced scorecard by Kaplan and
    >>Norton and the Corporate Soul (on the application of complexity theory to
    >>organisations).
    >>
    >>The central idea being that if your networks are working effectively both
    >>within the organisation and outside of the organisation, if your culture
    >>supports trusta and staff are engaged at work, and if your leaders are
    >>working effectively, innovation will be an outcome.
    >>
    >>However, there doesn't appear to any easy way of identifying indicators
    >>except by taking what these authors and others are saying about how
    >>organisations release innovation and turning this around to say, what
    >>therefore should we be seeing in the organisation and how would we measure
    >>this.
    >>
    >>I believe that measuring innovation would be easier in organsations such as
    >>IT or manufacturing where you could easily measure the time to market and
    >>number of new ideas, but I'm working with public sector organisations,
    >where
    >>these distinctions aren't as clear.
    >>
    >>Hope this helps
    >>
    >>Amanda Martin
    >>
    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>From: Charles Wankel [mailto:wankelc@optonline.net]
    >>Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 1:04 AM
    >>To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    >>Subject: Re: Reference search
    >>
    >>
    >>From: Leslie, Annette [mailto:A.LESLIE@cranfield.ac.uk]
    >>
    >>Help! - I've got just the same question - can anyone input plse?
    >>regards Annette Leslie, Cranfield University, UK
    >>
    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>From: Theo. R. Leverenz [mailto:eppa@juno.com]
    >>
    >>I've come across several "what is" and "how to" articles, articles with
    >>showcase examples, and articles encouraging innovation. However, I've
    >>found very, very, very few articles addressing the issue of MEASUREMENT
    >>of innovation. Anyone have any directions to places I should check?
    >>
    >>.....Theo
    >>
    >-----------------------------------------------------------
    >Gray Southon
    >Honorary Research Associate
    >University of Technology, Sydney, Australia
    >Director, Southon Consulting.
    >Ph 02 9524 7822, mobile: 0416 295 056 Fax 02 9531 0781
    > email: gsouthon@ozemail.com.au
    >Personal Web Site http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gsouthon/
    >---------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Gray Southon
    Honorary Research Associate
    University of Technology, Sydney, Australia
    Director, Southon Consulting.
    Ph 02 9524 7822, mobile: 0416 295 056 Fax 02 9531 0781
    email: gsouthon@ozemail.com.au
    Personal Web Site http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gsouthon/


  • 8.  Reference search

    Posted 04-16-2002 18:19
    Hi Gray

    I totally agree - I believe that it's my job to develop and deliver on the
    "rational indicators" that we have in organisations while also protecting
    and nurturing the things that cannot easily be measured but which are
    essential for organisational performance and people's lives.

    Amanda

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gray Southon [mailto:gsouthon@ozemail.com.au]
    Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 9:00 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: Reference search


    Hi Amanda,

    Perhaps I have projected something onto you that was not appropriate.
    However, the way that you were talking about measures were thst it seemed
    that they were expected to stand by themselves as objective evaluations.

    I would also like to comment on your statemet:

    >But we are also accountable and therefore wanted to
    >identify how we would know if these things are delivering performance
    >outcomes.

    I realise that there are many demands for indicators to demonstrate level
    of performance from both managers and public. But there is a very real
    issue of how validly one can present a complex process by a few parameters.
    It seems many assume that if you present some information that is better
    than nothing. However, a few convenient parameters may grossly distort
    reality, especially if they are used as incentives (e.g. mortality figures
    for hospitals act as an incentive to minimise critical admissions).

    Not that measure are necessarily bad, but there is plenty of evidence that
    they are often highly problematic, and i see little evidence that people
    are aware of the complexities of measures.

    Yours

    Gray Southon


    At 05:27 PM 4/12/02 +1000, you wrote:
    >Hi Gary
    >
    >I would agree if this was the only thing we are doing - it is in fact
    >probably the smallest part of a change agenda that includes leadership
    >development, building learning networks and communities, creating better
    >relationships across our organisation and working collaboratively on key
    >strategic initiatives. >
    >NB your question tells me that I shouldn't write emails quite so quickly as
    >I seem to have come across as focusing on something I didn't think I was
    >going for.
    >
    >Amanda
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Gray Southon [mailto:gsouthon@ozemail.com.au]
    >Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 1:17 PM
    >To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    >Subject: Re: Reference search
    >
    >
    >Amanda,
    >
    >I am concerend about the attention given to measurement as a method of
    >understanding. It seems that managers are not expected to have any tacit or
    >intuitive understanding of their organisations.
    >
    >What would happen of you llimited your understanding of your family or your
    >workmates, or even your work perofrmance my measurements.
    >
    >Would it not be better to see measurements as merely supplemental to a
    >deeper knoweldge of the organisation and its innovation?
    >
    >Yours
    >
    >Gray Southon
    >
    >
    >At 08:39 AM 4/12/02 +1000, you wrote:
    >>Hi
    >>
    >>We've just been looking at measures of innovation and of network
    capability
    >>and found some great stuff in Results-Based Leadership by Dave Uhlrich and
    >>others, and Horizontal Networks by Ostroff, Building Social Capital in
    >>Organisations by Cohen and Prusak, the Balanced scorecard by Kaplan and
    >>Norton and the Corporate Soul (on the application of complexity theory to
    >>organisations).
    >>
    >>The central idea being that if your networks are working effectively both
    >>within the organisation and outside of the organisation, if your culture
    >>supports trusta and staff are engaged at work, and if your leaders are
    >>working effectively, innovation will be an outcome.
    >>
    >>However, there doesn't appear to any easy way of identifying indicators
    >>except by taking what these authors and others are saying about how
    >>organisations release innovation and turning this around to say, what
    >>therefore should we be seeing in the organisation and how would we measure
    >>this.
    >>
    >>I believe that measuring innovation would be easier in organsations such
    as
    >>IT or manufacturing where you could easily measure the time to market and
    >>number of new ideas, but I'm working with public sector organisations,
    >where
    >>these distinctions aren't as clear.
    >>
    >>Hope this helps
    >>
    >>Amanda Martin
    >>
    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>From: Charles Wankel [mailto:wankelc@optonline.net]
    >>Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 1:04 AM
    >>To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    >>Subject: Re: Reference search
    >>
    >>
    >>From: Leslie, Annette [mailto:A.LESLIE@cranfield.ac.uk]
    >>
    >>Help! - I've got just the same question - can anyone input plse?
    >>regards Annette Leslie, Cranfield University, UK
    >>
    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>From: Theo. R. Leverenz [mailto:eppa@juno.com]
    >>
    >>I've come across several "what is" and "how to" articles, articles with
    >>showcase examples, and articles encouraging innovation. However, I've
    >>found very, very, very few articles addressing the issue of MEASUREMENT
    >>of innovation. Anyone have any directions to places I should check?
    >>
    >>.....Theo
    >>
    >-----------------------------------------------------------
    >Gray Southon
    >Honorary Research Associate
    >University of Technology, Sydney, Australia
    >Director, Southon Consulting.
    >Ph 02 9524 7822, mobile: 0416 295 056 Fax 02 9531 0781
    > email: gsouthon@ozemail.com.au
    >Personal Web Site http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gsouthon/
    >---------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Gray Southon
    Honorary Research Associate
    University of Technology, Sydney, Australia
    Director, Southon Consulting.
    Ph 02 9524 7822, mobile: 0416 295 056 Fax 02 9531 0781
    email: gsouthon@ozemail.com.au
    Personal Web Site http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gsouthon/