Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  Triple Bottom Line

    Posted 04-17-2009 10:48
    Hi Carolyn-
    In my Social Entrepreneurship class we discuss this topic and reference a book of the same title by Andrew Savitz who is a thought leader in the for profit world on this subject.
    Kindest regards,
    Ramon Venero
    Doctoral Student
    Huizenga School of Business
    Nova Southeastern University
    venero@nova.edu
    +1.202.623.9012

    Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


    From: Carolyn Fausnaugh <cfausnau@fit.edu>
    Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:10:13 -0400
    To: <MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
    Subject: Re: The crisis - balanced scorecard contribution

    Kim and all
     
    Has anyone run across the idea of "triple bottom line" ?  At the beginning of 2000, I was teaching in Australia and ran across this idea.  I have it somewhere in my files, but have not done any more with it, or even heard of it again.
     
    Carolyn
     
    Carolyn J. Fausnaugh PhD, CPA
    Asst Professor of Strategy & New Ventures
    Florida Institute of Technology
    Melbourne, Florida 32901
    Phone:  321-674-7375; Fax:  321-674-8896


    From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of Kim Warren
    Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 7:51 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: The crisis - balanced scorecard contribution

    I have used BSC within strategy teaching for some years, and come across BSCs in many companies. My impression is that, whilst it is a valuable extension to standard financial reporting systems, it has some limitations as a tool for managing strategy – limitations that the down-turn has exposed quite sharply. As usually implemented  ...

    -          there is no coverage of competitive conditions or competitor behaviour – nor can I find any suggestion in the BSC or Strategy Maps books that they should do so.

    -          there is no coverage of trends or changes in overall supply/demand conditions – and again, no suggestion they should do so.

    -          there is no attention to prospective performance – i.e. how we are likely to perform on key indicators in coming periods [as distinct from our performance targets].

     

    More seriously, although the causal logic generally seems to make sense to executives [Learning/Growth >> Internal Processes >> Customer Consequences >> Financial Outcomes] there is no rigorous, formal, verifiable structure to that logic – i.e. no solid 'theory' – to ensure the strategy map is robust. Consequently, BSCs seem to reflect what teams think, or would like, some of the causal relationships to be – which may be entirely different from what another team might come up with. [I address this issue and suggest the basics of a more rigorous approach in chapter 4 of my book .. see www.strategydynamics.com/c4 ]

     

    As a result, I can't as yet see how a company's BSC could have led them to anticipate the current crisis, to plan for it, or to work out what to do to survive and escape from it. I imagine many of us would be grateful to hear of cases where BSC has been helpful in coping with current difficulties, and how that has happened.

     

    Kim

     

    Kim Warren

    ... strategy blog latest + RSS Picture of the Feeds button

                How companies are coping

                Growth or survival

                Chuck the consultants?

    ... strategy dynamics training from SDS

    ... the strategy dynamics online course and learning materials

    ... order Strategic Management Dynamics, + Wiley instructor registration

     

     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ben Teehankee
    Sent: 14 April 2009 13:55
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

     

    Yes, I find the BSC a promising approach, especially if the system links between the components are really worked out.  I find that many companies who claim to do BSC are still doing MBO with no system links underpinning it.

     

    Regards,

     

    Ben
     

    -------------------------------
    Benito L. Teehankee, DBA
    Sen. Benigno S. Aquino Jr. associate professor in business and governance
    Ramon V. del Rosario Sr. Graduate School of Business
    De La Salle University
    Manila, Philippines
    Office: +632-5234295

     

     


    From: Jack Ring <jring@AMUG.ORG>
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:34:23 AM
    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

    

     

    ----- Original Message -----

    Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 3:18 AM

    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

     

    I think Michael makes a crucially important point about the need to expand objective functions in several important dimensions.  However, students with a practical bent will automatically ask how this is to be done.  I surveyed our MBA curriculum and the tools and problem-solving methods taught are strongly biased for a single objective -- whether it be in management science or management accounting.  What methods can be taught to students which support a multi-stakeholder, mutli-objective perspective?  Has anybody in the list used analytic hierarchy process (AHP) for this, for example?  What about system dynamics as Kim suggests?

    Have you looked at Balanced Scorecard? I do not hold this up as an exemplar but it does deal with N attributes. Of course, Drucker told us years ago that the minimum set is Market Standing, Productivity, Innovation and Liquidity.

     

    The AHP is mathematically flawed (unless you can assure that all options are transitive).

    Better you should consider Bayesian Belief Networks.

     

    Cheers,

    Jack Ring

     

    </cfausnau@fit.edu>


  • 2.  Triple Bottom Line

    Posted 04-17-2009 11:39
    Triple Bottom Line is also referred to as "people, planet, profit". A key person that in that movement is John Elkington. Wiki has a good 'starter' page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_bottom_line
     
    Sustainability is another word used commonly in this area, and a good book there is The sustainable company: how to create lasting value through social and environmental performance by Chris Laszlo.
     
    Cheers,
    Silvia
     
     
    Silvia Salas, PhD Candidate
    College of Business
    Florida International University
    University Park
    Miami, FL 33199
     
     
     

    From: Carolyn Fausnaugh
    Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:10:13 -0400
    To: <MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
    Subject: Re: The crisis - balanced scorecard contribution

    Kim and all
     
    Has anyone run across the idea of "triple bottom line" ?  At the beginning of 2000, I was teaching in Australia and ran across this idea.  I have it somewhere in my files, but have not done any more with it, or even heard of it again.
     
    Carolyn
     
    Carolyn J. Fausnaugh PhD, CPA
    Asst Professor of Strategy & New Ventures
    Florida Institute of Technology
    Melbourne, Florida 32901
    Phone:  321-674-7375; Fax:  321-674-8896


    From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of Kim Warren
    Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 7:51 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: The crisis - balanced scorecard contribution

    I have used BSC within strategy teaching for some years, and come across BSCs in many companies. My impression is that, whilst it is a valuable extension to standard financial reporting systems, it has some limitations as a tool for managing strategy – limitations that the down-turn has exposed quite sharply. As usually implemented  ...

    -          there is no coverage of competitive conditions or competitor behaviour – nor can I find any suggestion in the BSC or Strategy Maps books that they should do so.

    -          there is no coverage of trends or changes in overall supply/demand conditions – and again, no suggestion they should do so.

    -          there is no attention to prospective performance – i.e. how we are likely to perform on key indicators in coming periods [as distinct from our performance targets].

     

    More seriously, although the causal logic generally seems to make sense to executives [Learning/Growth >> Internal Processes >> Customer Consequences >> Financial Outcomes] there is no rigorous, formal, verifiable structure to that logic – i.e. no solid 'theory' – to ensure the strategy map is robust. Consequently, BSCs seem to reflect what teams think, or would like, some of the causal relationships to be – which may be entirely different from what another team might come up with. [I address this issue and suggest the basics of a more rigorous approach in chapter 4 of my book .. see www.strategydynamics.com/c4 ]

     

    As a result, I can't as yet see how a company's BSC could have led them to anticipate the current crisis, to plan for it, or to work out what to do to survive and escape from it. I imagine many of us would be grateful to hear of cases where BSC has been helpful in coping with current difficulties, and how that has happened.

     

    Kim

     

    Kim Warren

    ... strategy blog latest + RSS

                How companies are coping

                Growth or survival

                Chuck the consultants?

    ... strategy dynamics training from SDS

    ... the strategy dynamics online course and learning materials

    ... order Strategic Management Dynamics, + Wiley instructor registration

     

     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ben Teehankee
    Sent: 14 April 2009 13:55
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

     

    Yes, I find the BSC a promising approach, especially if the system links between the components are really worked out.  I find that many companies who claim to do BSC are still doing MBO with no system links underpinning it.

     

    Regards,

     

    Ben
     

    -------------------------------
    Benito L. Teehankee, DBA
    Sen. Benigno S. Aquino Jr. associate professor in business and governance
    Ramon V. del Rosario Sr. Graduate School of Business
    De La Salle University
    Manila, Philippines
    Office: +632-5234295

     

     


    From: Jack Ring <jring@AMUG.ORG>
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:34:23 AM
    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

    

     

    ----- Original Message -----

    Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 3:18 AM

    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

     

    I think Michael makes a crucially important point about the need to expand objective functions in several important dimensions.  However, students with a practical bent will automatically ask how this is to be done.  I surveyed our MBA curriculum and the tools and problem-solving methods taught are strongly biased for a single objective -- whether it be in management science or management accounting.  What methods can be taught to students which support a multi-stakeholder, mutli-objective perspective?  Has anybody in the list used analytic hierarchy process (AHP) for this, for example?  What about system dynamics as Kim suggests?

    Have you looked at Balanced Scorecard? I do not hold this up as an exemplar but it does deal with N attributes. Of course, Drucker told us years ago that the minimum set is Market Standing, Productivity, Innovation and Liquidity.

     

    The AHP is mathematically flawed (unless you can assure that all options are transitive).

    Better you should consider Bayesian Belief Networks.

     

    Cheers,

    Jack Ring

     



  • 3.  Triple Bottom Line

    Posted 04-17-2009 22:15
    By the way, there's a free online forum for people interested in social enterprise at http://www.npenterprise.net
     
    There's about 5,000 people registered in the forum now.
    ----------------------------------------------
    Carter McNamara, MBA, PhD
    Authenticity Consulting, LLC
    www.authenticityconsulting.com
    800-971-2250
    ----------------------------------------------
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Ray Venero
    Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 9:47 AM
    Subject: Re: Triple Bottom Line

    Hi Carolyn-
    In my Social Entrepreneurship class we discuss this topic and reference a book of the same title by Andrew Savitz who is a thought leader in the for profit world on this subject.
    Kindest regards,
    Ramon Venero
    Doctoral Student
    Huizenga School of Business
    Nova Southeastern University
    venero@nova.edu
    +1.202.623.9012

    Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


    From: Carolyn Fausnaugh <cfausnau@fit.edu>
    Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:10:13 -0400
    To: <MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
    Subject: Re: The crisis - balanced scorecard contribution

    Kim and all
     
    Has anyone run across the idea of "triple bottom line" ?  At the beginning of 2000, I was teaching in Australia and ran across this idea.  I have it somewhere in my files, but have not done any more with it, or even heard of it again.
     
    Carolyn
     
    Carolyn J. Fausnaugh PhD, CPA
    Asst Professor of Strategy & New Ventures
    Florida Institute of Technology
    Melbourne, Florida 32901
    Phone:  321-674-7375; Fax:  321-674-8896


    From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of Kim Warren
    Sent: Fri 4/17/2009 7:51 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: The crisis - balanced scorecard contribution

    I have used BSC within strategy teaching for some years, and come across BSCs in many companies. My impression is that, whilst it is a valuable extension to standard financial reporting systems, it has some limitations as a tool for managing strategy – limitations that the down-turn has exposed quite sharply. As usually implemented  ...

    -          there is no coverage of competitive conditions or competitor behaviour – nor can I find any suggestion in the BSC or Strategy Maps books that they should do so.

    -          there is no coverage of trends or changes in overall supply/demand conditions – and again, no suggestion they should do so.

    -          there is no attention to prospective performance – i.e. how we are likely to perform on key indicators in coming periods [as distinct from our performance targets].

     

    More seriously, although the causal logic generally seems to make sense to executives [Learning/Growth >> Internal Processes >> Customer Consequences >> Financial Outcomes] there is no rigorous, formal, verifiable structure to that logic – i.e. no solid 'theory' – to ensure the strategy map is robust. Consequently, BSCs seem to reflect what teams think, or would like, some of the causal relationships to be – which may be entirely different from what another team might come up with. [I address this issue and suggest the basics of a more rigorous approach in chapter 4 of my book .. see www.strategydynamics.com/c4 ]

     

    As a result, I can't as yet see how a company's BSC could have led them to anticipate the current crisis, to plan for it, or to work out what to do to survive and escape from it. I imagine many of us would be grateful to hear of cases where BSC has been helpful in coping with current difficulties, and how that has happened.

     

    Kim

     

    Kim Warren

    ... strategy blog latest + RSS

                How companies are coping

                Growth or survival

                Chuck the consultants?

    ... strategy dynamics training from SDS

    ... the strategy dynamics online course and learning materials

    ... order Strategic Management Dynamics, + Wiley instructor registration

     

     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ben Teehankee
    Sent: 14 April 2009 13:55
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

     

    Yes, I find the BSC a promising approach, especially if the system links between the components are really worked out.  I find that many companies who claim to do BSC are still doing MBO with no system links underpinning it.

     

    Regards,

     

    Ben
     

    -------------------------------
    Benito L. Teehankee, DBA
    Sen. Benigno S. Aquino Jr. associate professor in business and governance
    Ramon V. del Rosario Sr. Graduate School of Business
    De La Salle University
    Manila, Philippines
    Office: +632-5234295

     

     


    From: Jack Ring <jring@AMUG.ORG>
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:34:23 AM
    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

    

     

    ----- Original Message -----

    Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 3:18 AM

    Subject: Re: The crisis - ethics or competence?

     

    I think Michael makes a crucially important point about the need to expand objective functions in several important dimensions.  However, students with a practical bent will automatically ask how this is to be done.  I surveyed our MBA curriculum and the tools and problem-solving methods taught are strongly biased for a single objective -- whether it be in management science or management accounting.  What methods can be taught to students which support a multi-stakeholder, mutli-objective perspective?  Has anybody in the list used analytic hierarchy process (AHP) for this, for example?  What about system dynamics as Kim suggests?

    Have you looked at Balanced Scorecard? I do not hold this up as an exemplar but it does deal with N attributes. Of course, Drucker told us years ago that the minimum set is Market Standing, Productivity, Innovation and Liquidity.

     

    The AHP is mathematically flawed (unless you can assure that all options are transitive).

    Better you should consider Bayesian Belief Networks.

     

    Cheers,

    Jack Ring

     

    </cfausnau@fit.edu>