Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  HR Student Reading: Professors Explain it Through Journalis ts

    Posted 12-26-2003 12:26
    From Fred Nikols
    "On what basis would those grades be awarded?" The "quality" of the
    discussions? If so, how
    are you defining "quality" in that context? The "relationship" with the
    professor (or the instructor)? If so, how are you defining (a) "quality"
    and (b) "the relationship"?"

    My response: What if there were no definitions. What if "quality" were in
    the eye of the instructor (I'll know it when I see it.). That describes our
    current performance appraisal system. As Deborah Nixon has so eloquently
    expressed in a previous post,
    "Students would want to know how I would evaluate ... and I think that's a
    legitimate request. They don't want things to be arbitrary and
    unpredictable."

    "It's akin to the performance evaluation discussion the other day. While you
    want discretion, people need to be clear about what the expectations are and
    how the supervisor is evaluating that. Otherwise, it's too random and you
    never know how and if you met expectations."
    (Deborah, please forgive me for using the above without first getting your
    permission.)

    In the absence of definitions/expectations, I could see some students trying
    to influence instructor subjectivity by developing as close a personal
    relationship to the instructor as possible - much the way I saw some of my
    mother's students attempt to do with her.

    My mother, brother, and uncle have labored in academia, each in a different
    university system, for some 25 years or more, so I have some understanding
    of how different students approach getting the grade. Although I hesitated
    to post my "real world" problem to an academic list (it probably would be
    more appropriate for your listserv, Fred), I know what thoughtful
    consideration folks in academia contribute to their chosen fields, and I
    value such wisdom highly.

    Toward the end of every year the organization that currently employs me goes
    through a month of performance appraisals, followed by a month of angst over
    how distasteful and unfair the process is. This year, since they have now
    hired an O.D. guy (me), they want me to earn my keep and "fix it"! So my
    thoughts and questions have a real basis behind them. If any of you have a
    theory, I would certainly be willing to try to put it into practice.

    Mike Kiska
    Training & O.D. Manager - Administrative Services
    Jefferson County Public Library

    Find us on the Web: http://jefferson.lib.co.us


  • 2.  HR Student Reading: Professors Explain it Through Journalis ts

    Posted 12-26-2003 13:50
    Dear Mike: Please never apologize for your contribution- I've seen them
    in the past and they have been insightful and thoughtful. You're bang
    on re: sidling up to the prof. It is done to me every term- and I know
    it when it's happening. Part of what I don't like about it is the
    insincerity and manipulation that it implies. I wonder when students
    tell me they think I'm a great prof if they really mean it or if they
    want to score points. Some are very sincere and I form wonderful
    relationships with some. But subjectivity is very fraught with
    problems.

    I've seen it outside of academia as Mike well knows. The resentment that
    is harboured by those employees who 'suck it up' is detrimental to a
    department or to a work group. The manager who tolerates, even
    encourages it, is seen as unfair and playing favourites. It makes those
    who either don't play the suck it game or who aren't one of the
    favourites feel very defeated about every being able to break through or
    make a difference. It is a part of the organizational culture and is
    usually a systemic issue which runs through different parts of the
    organization.

    People need to know their legitimate work will be measured on a fair and
    equitable basis and rewarded accordingly. I'm not sure why some people
    think grades are a stupid way of evaluating students. I have found it
    valuable over the years- as a professor and as a student. They serve as
    valuable guides and useful indicators of how we measure up and where we
    fell short and could improve, I get very few arguments from students
    about grades primarily because they receive what they expected. The
    major arguments arise from those who didn't do what was expected, get a
    lower grade, and then try to negotiate and rationalize why it wasn't
    their fault- you know the drill. Tough love life, too much work, stress
    etc etc. Grading is tough- it holds professors accountable to students
    and must make you face those whom you may disappoint with a less than
    favourable grade. But our jobs aren't to make students happy- it is to
    help them learn and improve. Sometimes the only message some get is via
    a grade.

    I have found that dialogue along the way makes a huge difference to
    manage expectations and provide people with clear guidance to
    improvement. Therefore, the midterm I set is not a breeze- it is close
    in format to the final which is considered tricky but fair. I tell my
    students that the midterm is an indicator to them of how they will do in
    the final. If they aren't happy with their results and do nothing to
    change their practices, they can expect a similar performance. I also
    tell them that anyone with a 60% or less must have a meeting with me so
    that we can review where they think they went wrong, look at their prep
    for the midterm and pull together their plan for how they are going to
    improve. In almost all cases they sheepishly admit to be unprepared and
    not having done what was expected of them. Those who care usually
    always improve their grade on the final. Those who don't, don't. But
    all agree that the process was fair, I was their to help and guide them
    along if they needed it , and the outcome is rarely a shock.

    Mike, not sure how much of this translates for you but my sense, as an
    ex-employee, ex-manager and consultant, that lots of talk and feedback-
    and most importantly, a transparent and apparent process goes very far
    in dealing with the angst. As I told my son's principal, his report
    card should never be a surprise to me. It should simply be confirmatory
    of what I should have known already through much dialogue, feedback, and
    problem-solving through the term. Same applies to the business world.

    Phew!! What a long post. Didn't expect to babble on so much. Maybe I
    needed to articulate this to myself as well. Thanks for the opportunity.

    Cheers

    deborah

    Deborah Nixon
    University of Toronto
    704 Windermere Ave
    Toronto Ont M6S 3M1
    Ph: 416-763-6985
    Fax: 416-763-3361



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Kiska
    Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 12:26 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Re: HR Student Reading: Professors Explain it Through Journalis
    ts


    From Fred Nikols
    "On what basis would those grades be awarded?" The "quality" of the
    discussions? If so, how are you defining "quality" in that context?
    The "relationship" with the professor (or the instructor)? If so, how
    are you defining (a) "quality" and (b) "the relationship"?"

    My response: What if there were no definitions. What if "quality" were
    in the eye of the instructor (I'll know it when I see it.). That
    describes our current performance appraisal system. As Deborah Nixon
    has so eloquently expressed in a previous post, "Students would want to
    know how I would evaluate ... and I think that's a legitimate request.
    They don't want things to be arbitrary and unpredictable."

    "It's akin to the performance evaluation discussion the other day. While
    you want discretion, people need to be clear about what the expectations
    are and how the supervisor is evaluating that. Otherwise, it's too
    random and you never know how and if you met expectations." (Deborah,
    please forgive me for using the above without first getting your
    permission.)

    In the absence of definitions/expectations, I could see some students
    trying to influence instructor subjectivity by developing as close a
    personal relationship to the instructor as possible - much the way I saw
    some of my mother's students attempt to do with her.

    My mother, brother, and uncle have labored in academia, each in a
    different university system, for some 25 years or more, so I have some
    understanding of how different students approach getting the grade.
    Although I hesitated to post my "real world" problem to an academic list
    (it probably would be more appropriate for your listserv, Fred), I know
    what thoughtful consideration folks in academia contribute to their
    chosen fields, and I value such wisdom highly.

    Toward the end of every year the organization that currently employs me
    goes through a month of performance appraisals, followed by a month of
    angst over how distasteful and unfair the process is. This year, since
    they have now hired an O.D. guy (me), they want me to earn my keep and
    "fix it"! So my thoughts and questions have a real basis behind them.
    If any of you have a theory, I would certainly be willing to try to put
    it into practice.

    Mike Kiska
    Training & O.D. Manager - Administrative Services
    Jefferson County Public Library

    Find us on the Web: http://jefferson.lib.co.us