Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  Toad therapy

    Posted 01-03-2004 08:40
    On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:30:59 -0500,. deborah nixon
    <deborahnixon@sympatico.ca> wrote Re: Treating toadies
    >
    > [...] I think he felt that ---

    [JRing replies] But did you verify? Or at the time he became angry did you
    seize the opportunity to help him examine his motivation? I readily agree
    that a lot of suck-up behavior exists and is all too often rewarded by those
    who already learned how to get ahead by letting others do the work. I
    readily agree that those practicing suck-up behavior need to be shown longer
    term consequences and ways of Knowing and Doing rather than just Being. The
    question I raised was not about the prevalence nor propriety of such
    behavior but about the professor's behavior ---- Why don't professors (not
    All professors) who roll their eyes and otherwise diminish the student find
    more effective ways of dealing with the behavior? I gather from the
    following paragraph that you are not an eye roller thus you may be more
    ready to deal with my question than are those professors who are too fearful
    to deal with such students.
    >
    [deborah continues] > I usually don't do much in the way of responding to
    these students- I
    > accord them as much attention as anyone else. And I often ask them if
    > we could get views from other students in the class- so that they can't
    > dominate. The feedback I've seen on my assessments and those anonymous
    > rate your profs websites is always good- and they never fail to say that
    > I'm fair. Tough but fair. I take that as one of the important things I
    > aspire too. If students think you're fair, then they all know they have
    > an equal chance of getting a good grade. And that they also usually
    > acknowledge that poor performance is usually do to a lack of effort on
    > their part. I'm always available so they know they can come for help-
    > and if they choose not to and do poorly- they know where to look for
    > responsibility.
    >
    [deborah says] > Jack asks what is the fear that causes suck- up behaviour?
    Obviously a
    > fear of failure-

    [JRing replies] Not so obviously it might be fear of being insignificant,
    irrelevant or even unlovable. Those who try to get by on Being are usually
    very concerned about their perception of Being. Regardless, eye rolling is
    not good therapy for any of these possible fears. .


  • 2.  Toad therapy

    Posted 01-03-2004 09:22
    Dear Jack: I agree. But I'm not sure it's my role to figure out his
    psychological issues. Unless a student seeks me out I don't feel it's
    my place. I do call them in if they seem to be struggling to have a
    talk about what the issue might be. But if they deliver comments such
    as the course didn't effectively teach the concepts of change mgmt-
    concepts he had no idea about since he is neither a practitioner nor a
    student who took the time to listen and learn. He thought the course was
    dumb, the readings were dumb, the exams were dumb and basically all
    beneath him. He took quite a high-handed stance, blamed me for being
    ineffective and therefore he couldn't learn, Arrogance yes- but all
    subsumed by a sense of inferiority and frustration at not being able to
    shine. He dominated his group, thought they were all losers, didn't let
    them participate and they allowed him to take over- thereby reinforcing
    his thought that they were incompetent.

    So, some of this is often too complex for me to deal with. It's hard
    enough dealing with all the stresses students bring to you without it
    draining you and causing you to become off balance. So, I just make
    myself available and don't apologize for the course or the pedagogy. I
    was taught as a student that it was my job to get what I could out of a
    course- sometimes despite the professor. Life is like that- there are
    poor speakers and presenters. If we tune out to send ourselves a message
    of how bad they are- how much better we would be- then we miss the value
    they bring. We just have to work harder to get past our own blocks.

    Not easy being up there every week trying to motivate students who are
    often distracted, disinterested or not happy. Sometimes I feel like a
    performer- which I am. I find teaching rewarding but I know at the end
    of my teaching day, I'm pretty drained. Lots of effort to be up there
    for 6 hours being interesting to many who aren't.

    Deborah Nixon
    University of Toronto
    704 Windermere Ave
    Toronto Ont M6S 3M1
    Ph: 416-763-6985
    Fax: 416-763-3361



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    [mailto:MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU] On Behalf Of Jack Ring
    Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 8:40 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
    Subject: Toad therapy


    On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:30:59 -0500,. deborah nixon
    <deborahnixon@sympatico.ca> wrote Re: Treating toadies
    >
    > [...] I think he felt that ---

    [JRing replies] But did you verify? Or at the time he became angry did
    you seize the opportunity to help him examine his motivation? I readily
    agree that a lot of suck-up behavior exists and is all too often
    rewarded by those who already learned how to get ahead by letting others
    do the work. I readily agree that those practicing suck-up behavior
    need to be shown longer term consequences and ways of Knowing and Doing
    rather than just Being. The question I raised was not about the
    prevalence nor propriety of such behavior but about the professor's
    behavior ---- Why don't professors (not All professors) who roll their
    eyes and otherwise diminish the student find more effective ways of
    dealing with the behavior? I gather from the following paragraph that
    you are not an eye roller thus you may be more ready to deal with my
    question than are those professors who are too fearful to deal with such
    students.
    >
    [deborah continues] > I usually don't do much in the way of responding
    to these students- I
    > accord them as much attention as anyone else. And I often ask them if

    > we could get views from other students in the class- so that they
    > can't dominate. The feedback I've seen on my assessments and those
    > anonymous rate your profs websites is always good- and they never fail

    > to say that I'm fair. Tough but fair. I take that as one of the
    > important things I aspire too. If students think you're fair, then
    > they all know they have an equal chance of getting a good grade. And
    > that they also usually acknowledge that poor performance is usually do

    > to a lack of effort on their part. I'm always available so they know
    > they can come for help- and if they choose not to and do poorly- they
    > know where to look for responsibility.
    >
    [deborah says] > Jack asks what is the fear that causes suck- up
    behaviour? Obviously a
    > fear of failure-

    [JRing replies] Not so obviously it might be fear of being
    insignificant, irrelevant or even unlovable. Those who try to get by on
    Being are usually very concerned about their perception of Being.
    Regardless, eye rolling is not good therapy for any of these possible
    fears. .


  • 3.  Toad therapy

    Posted 01-04-2004 18:02
    I might ask, "What do you hope to accomplish with this behavior - which could be called 'sucking up'?"

    Edryce

    Jack Ring <jring@amug.org> wrote:
    On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:30:59 -0500,. deborah nixon
    wrote Re: Treating toadies
    >
    > [...] I think he felt that ---

    [JRing replies] But did you verify? Or at the time he became angry did you
    seize the opportunity to help him examine his motivation? I readily agree
    that a lot of suck-up behavior exists and is all too often rewarded by those
    who already learned how to get ahead by letting others do the work. I
    readily agree that those practicing suck-up behavior need to be shown longer
    term consequences and ways of Knowing and Doing rather than just Being. The
    question I raised was not about the prevalence nor propriety of such
    behavior but about the professor's behavior ---- Why don't professors (not
    All professors) who roll their eyes and otherwise diminish the student find
    more effective ways of dealing with the behavior? I gather from the
    following paragraph that you are not an eye roller thus you may be more
    ready to deal with my question than are those professors who are too fearful
    to deal with such students.
    >
    [deborah continues] > I usually don't do much in the way of responding to
    these students- I
    > accord them as much attention as anyone else. And I often ask them if
    > we could get views from other students in the class- so that they can't
    > dominate. The feedback I've seen on my assessments and those anonymous
    > rate your profs websites is always good- and they never fail to say that
    > I'm fair. Tough but fair. I take that as one of the important things I
    > aspire too. If students think you're fair, then they all know they have
    > an equal chance of getting a good grade. And that they also usually
    > acknowledge that poor performance is usually do to a lack of effort on
    > their part. I'm always available so they know they can come for help-
    > and if they choose not to and do poorly- they know where to look for
    > responsibility.
    >
    [deborah says] > Jack asks what is the fear that causes suck- up behaviour?
    Obviously a
    > fear of failure-

    [JRing replies] Not so obviously it might be fear of being insignificant,
    irrelevant or even unlovable. Those who try to get by on Being are usually
    very concerned about their perception of Being. Regardless, eye rolling is
    not good therapy for any of these possible fears. .

    ---------------------------------
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