I agree with the statement "Perhaps if we quit trying to force student
learning into a linear,time-based process, the concept of assessment could
move away from the
competitive grades process and closer to a feedback loop that provides
students with the data needed to become more self-correcting." referring to
Deming's 80-20 (or 80 - 15 as some people put it) principle. Unfortunately,
we need to consider also if the admission system of the colleges and
universities, or even the high school systems from where these students come
is a type of system that allows professors to start a system that can help
move "closer to a feedback loop that provides students with the data needed
to become more self-correcting." Here, I personally see us trying to deal
with a subsystem without looking at the bigger whole system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Wankel" <
wankelc@optonline.net>
To: <
MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: DISCUSSIONS ON OTHER LISTS: [POD] Systems thinking on grades
> From time-to-time Mg-Ed-Dv will share doings at other lists germane to our
> topical focus. You are invited to comment on such items on Mg-Ed-Dv.
> Cybercollegially, Charles Wankel
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------------
>
> From: Professional & Organization Development Network in Higher Education
> [mailto:
POD@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Terri Buckner
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:52 PM
> To:
POD@listserv.nd.edu
> Subject: Re: [POD] Systems thinking on grades
>
> Deming also applied the Pareto function to training by saying that 80%
> of any problem stems from a faulty process while 20% comes from human
> error; and yet we spend 80% of our resources to fix humans (training).
> Perhaps if we quit trying to force student learning into a linear,
> time-based process, the concept of assessment could move away from the
> competitive grades process and closer to a feedback loop that provides
> students with the data needed to become more self-correcting.
>
> La Lopa, Joseph M wrote:
>
> >Louis, if I am not mistaken Dr. Edward Deming found the same to be true
> >(the "fear factor") in the working world when he developed the 14 points
> >that management leaders should implement as part of their responsibility
> >to improve corporate systems. Point 8 is "drive out fear so that
> >everyone may work effectively for the company." Might this point not
> >also apply when we talk about improving academic systems?
> >
> >Here is another very cool point he made about "grades." He felt that
> >there should be no individual grades to determine who "passes" or
> >"fails" as those two constructs are a function of the system that
> >produced them. Deming thought that educators should look at the
> >historical performance parameters of their "educational system" in terms
> >of establishing the mean performance of students with a tolerance of 3
> >standard deviations for a given class, department, college, etc. At the
> >end of the semester grades are given to see how the "system" is
> >performing -- not the students. If students earn grades that are "out
> >of tolerance" then the onus is then on those who established the system
> >in the first place to fix the problem. Now HOW COOL IS THAT!!!!!
> >
> >Mick La Lopa
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Professional & Organization Development Network in Higher
> >Education [mailto:
POD@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Louis Schmier
> >Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM
> >To:
POD@listserv.nd.edu
> >Subject: [POD] FW: [POD] a world without grades [was: The various
> >meanings assigned to grades]
> >
> >
> >So, Dru, if the reward is not present the performance and quest for
> >achievement disappears? The latest research, especially that coming out
> >from the Harvard School of Business, shows that the "pressure" of the
> >grade engenders a fear of failing and punishment. Such negatives
> >diminish the quotient of imagination and creativity as well as the risk
> >to succeed.
> >
> >
> > --Louis--
> >
> >
> >Louis Schmier
www.therandomthoughts.com
> >Department of History
> >www.halcyon.com/arborhts/louis.html
> >Valdosta State University
> >Valdosta, Georgia 31698 /\ /\ /\ /\
> >(229-333-5947)
>