thinking 'system' WRT grades & grading? Come now, how naive can we
be? (with tongue firmly in cheek :)
A feedback loop approach to individual learning - isn't that rather
close to 'outcomes based' education, as it is called in the US? And
outcomes based education gets poor acceptance here in the US because
it means that low income kids will come out with (apparently) the
same education as middle class (the "rest of us") kids. And then how
will we tell them apart?
Please pardon my cynicism. anything that improves feedback loops to
the student so they can get a better understanding of themselves
_and_ the material has got to be a good thing.
Jay
On Sep 26, 2005, at 11:52 AM, Abainesh Mitiku wrote:
> I agree with the statement "Perhaps if we quit trying to force student
> learning into a linear,time-based process, the concept of
> assessment could
> move away from the
> competitive grades process and closer to a feedback loop that provides
> students with the data needed to become more self-correcting."
> referring to
> Deming's 80-20 (or 80 - 15 as some people put it) principle.
> Unfortunately,
> we need to consider also if the admission system of the colleges and
> universities, or even the high school systems from where these
> students come
> is a type of system that allows professors to start a system that
> can help
> move "closer to a feedback loop that provides students with the
> data needed
> to become more self-correcting." Here, I personally see us trying
> to deal
> with a subsystem without looking at the bigger whole system.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Wankel" <
wankelc@optonline.net>
> To: <
MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:24 PM
> Subject: DISCUSSIONS ON OTHER LISTS: [POD] Systems thinking on grades
>
>
>
>> From time-to-time Mg-Ed-Dv will share doings at other lists
>> germane to our
>> topical focus. You are invited to comment on such items on Mg-Ed-Dv.
>> Cybercollegially, Charles Wankel
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----
>>
> --
>
>> ----------------
>>
>> From: Professional & Organization Development Network in Higher
>> Education
>> [mailto:
POD@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Terri Buckner
>> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:52 PM
>> To:
POD@listserv.nd.edu
>> Subject: Re: [POD] Systems thinking on grades
>>
>> Deming also applied the Pareto function to training by saying that
>> 80%
>> of any problem stems from a faulty process while 20% comes from human
>> error; and yet we spend 80% of our resources to fix humans
>> (training).
>> Perhaps if we quit trying to force student learning into a linear,
>> time-based process, the concept of assessment could move away from
>> the
>> competitive grades process and closer to a feedback loop that
>> provides
>> students with the data needed to become more self-correcting.
>>
>> La Lopa, Joseph M wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Louis, if I am not mistaken Dr. Edward Deming found the same to
>>> be true
>>> (the "fear factor") in the working world when he developed the 14
>>> points
>>> that management leaders should implement as part of their
>>> responsibility
>>> to improve corporate systems. Point 8 is "drive out fear so that
>>> everyone may work effectively for the company." Might this point
>>> not
>>> also apply when we talk about improving academic systems?
>>>
>>> Here is another very cool point he made about "grades." He felt
>>> that
>>> there should be no individual grades to determine who "passes" or
>>> "fails" as those two constructs are a function of the system that
>>> produced them. Deming thought that educators should look at the
>>> historical performance parameters of their "educational system"
>>> in terms
>>> of establishing the mean performance of students with a tolerance
>>> of 3
>>> standard deviations for a given class, department, college, etc.
>>> At the
>>> end of the semester grades are given to see how the "system" is
>>> performing -- not the students. If students earn grades that are
>>> "out
>>> of tolerance" then the onus is then on those who established the
>>> system
>>> in the first place to fix the problem. Now HOW COOL IS THAT!!!!!
>>>
>>> Mick La Lopa
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Professional & Organization Development Network in Higher
>>> Education [mailto:
POD@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of Louis Schmier
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM
>>> To:
POD@listserv.nd.edu
>>> Subject: [POD] FW: [POD] a world without grades [was: The various
>>> meanings assigned to grades]
>>>
>>>
>>> So, Dru, if the reward is not present the performance and quest for
>>> achievement disappears? The latest research, especially that
>>> coming out
>>> from the Harvard School of Business, shows that the "pressure" of
>>> the
>>> grade engenders a fear of failing and punishment. Such negatives
>>> diminish the quotient of imagination and creativity as well as
>>> the risk
>>> to succeed.
>>>
>>>
>>> --Louis--
>>>
>>>
>>> Louis Schmier
>>>
www.therandomthoughts.com
>>> Department of History
>>>
www.halcyon.com/arborhts/louis.html
>>> Valdosta State University
>>> Valdosta, Georgia 31698 /\ /\ /\ /\
>>> (229-333-5947)
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA
Ph: 262.634.9100
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