Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  Gender of the list - classroom behavior & instructors part in/against it

    Posted 10-19-2005 20:35
    I suspect that there is no way a person can participate in this
    discussion without firmly hitting someone's hackles - with or without
    validity of participation or hackles. Nonetheless:

    The greater participation of males in a class, compared to the
    females in the same classroom, is noted at a very early age.
    Somewhere around 6th grade it starts to be reinforced by the more
    vocal boys, as they let the girls know that when girls demand to be
    heard they are being 'pushy,' and hence undesirable. Why should this
    effect cease at the undergraduate and graduate level?

    Similar behavior by White students serves to reinforce cultural
    expectations of how 'retiring' African-Americans (and other persons
    of color?) are supposed to behave. Everywhere in the USA there are
    ways for reining in those African-Americans who get 'pushy.'

    Males, or White people, don't have to believe and agree with these
    deductions from observations in order to be 'sexist,' or 'racist.'

    They just have to go along.

    (I'm using Beverly Tatum's definition: Tatum, Beverly Daniel;
    “Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?” And
    Other Conversations About Race , Revised Edition, 2003 ,
    Basic Books)

    I can understand why students might reinforce intellectually or
    socially undesirable attitudes. My concern is for the instructor.
    Since the instructor is nominally in charge of the class activities,
    I'd like to know what the instructor might do to reduce the imbalance
    caused by prior cultural indoctrination.

    I know that in the thick of a class discussion it is quite difficult
    for an instructor to both guide/lead a discussion and monitor the
    subtleties of participant subgroups. Nonetheless, even my thick head
    is able to see some cases. I believe it incumbent upon us, the
    intellectual leaders of the class (I trust), to assure that the
    students have enough insight to understand the fact of their
    behavior, some inkling of the implications and consequences, and
    perhaps the wisdom to let them decide if they really want to continue
    through life as such barbaric miscreants.

    After all, folks in this group are training/teaching the future
    managers. How effective a manager is someone likely to be if they
    ignore input from females, or discount anything from a person of
    color, or for that matter dismiss any suggestions for improvement
    from an hourly worker? If we instructors fail to awaken students to
    their own negative behaviors we provide a less than optimum/
    successful/complete education - and that's _our_ product.

    We're all in this together. We need help from all quarters. It's
    high time we act like it.

    Jay


    On Oct 19, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Godar, Susan wrote:

    > I'd like to respond to the question about the "gender" of the list.
    > It's very important, I think, that all kinds of voices be heard.
    > One of
    > the advantages of this type of sharing, via elists, should be the
    > opportunity to hear a variety of ideas, not just a few people. And
    > not
    > just people of one sex or from one background.
    >
    > I've just finished observing some classes and noted that much of the
    > participation in classes is coming from the males in the class. To me
    > that means a less-effective learning environment for everyone as (a)
    > women are disenfranchised from the class and (b) men are not learning
    > from them. (In another class only the white students were responding
    > and I found that equally disturbing, by the way.) If you're teaching
    > today, I encourage you to pay attention to who's participating in the
    > discussions - and make room for all voices.
    >
    > Sue Godar

    Jay Warner
    Principal Scientist
    Warner Consulting, Inc.
    4444 North Green Bay Road
    Racine, WI 53404-1216
    USA

    Ph: 262.634.9100
    FAX: 262.681.1133
    email: quality@a2q.com
    web: www.a2q.com

    The A2Q Method(tm) --- What do you want to improve today?


  • 2.  Gender of the list - classroom behavior & instructors part in/against it

    Posted 10-21-2005 05:13
    Jay Warner wrote:

    >I can understand why students might reinforce intellectually or
    >socially undesirable attitudes. My concern is for the instructor.
    >Since the instructor is nominally in charge of the class activities,
    >I'd like to know what the instructor might do to reduce the imbalance
    >caused by prior cultural indoctrination.

    two ways -- rather obvious I'm afraid but still: to monitor and revise our own behaviour (it is surprising the things we take for granted about ourselves) and to make the issue explicit, either in special sessions or as part of other assignments.

    it might be interesting for some of you to know that when the Swedish truck company Volvo (not the car manufacturer nowadays owned by Ford) decided to do something about the fact that women are leaving them to take up posts in upper management in other companies, they started by educating their own top male managers. and the training is just as much about having the courage to break dominant patterns as about the gender perspective per se.

    regards/bengt

    -----------------------------------------------
    Bengt Kjellén
    Asst Professor Business Administration
    School of Business
    Stockholm University
    SWEDEN


  • 3.  Gender of the list - classroom behavior & instructors part in/against it

    Posted 10-21-2005 14:51
    Hello:

    As one long time very pushy for positive change type African American
    male I find this discussion on point.


    Peace,George Munchus,UAB
    Professor of Management

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU]On Behalf Of Jay Warner
    Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:35 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Gender of the list - classroom behavior & instructors part
    in/against it


    I suspect that there is no way a person can participate in this
    discussion without firmly hitting someone's hackles - with or without
    validity of participation or hackles. Nonetheless:

    The greater participation of males in a class, compared to the
    females in the same classroom, is noted at a very early age.
    Somewhere around 6th grade it starts to be reinforced by the more
    vocal boys, as they let the girls know that when girls demand to be
    heard they are being 'pushy,' and hence undesirable. Why should this
    effect cease at the undergraduate and graduate level?

    Similar behavior by White students serves to reinforce cultural
    expectations of how 'retiring' African-Americans (and other persons
    of color?) are supposed to behave. Everywhere in the USA there are
    ways for reining in those African-Americans who get 'pushy.'

    Males, or White people, don't have to believe and agree with these
    deductions from observations in order to be 'sexist,' or 'racist.'

    They just have to go along.

    (I'm using Beverly Tatum's definition: Tatum, Beverly Daniel;
    “Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?” And
    Other Conversations About Race , Revised Edition, 2003 ,
    Basic Books)

    I can understand why students might reinforce intellectually or
    socially undesirable attitudes. My concern is for the instructor.
    Since the instructor is nominally in charge of the class activities,
    I'd like to know what the instructor might do to reduce the imbalance
    caused by prior cultural indoctrination.

    I know that in the thick of a class discussion it is quite difficult
    for an instructor to both guide/lead a discussion and monitor the
    subtleties of participant subgroups. Nonetheless, even my thick head
    is able to see some cases. I believe it incumbent upon us, the
    intellectual leaders of the class (I trust), to assure that the
    students have enough insight to understand the fact of their
    behavior, some inkling of the implications and consequences, and
    perhaps the wisdom to let them decide if they really want to continue
    through life as such barbaric miscreants.

    After all, folks in this group are training/teaching the future
    managers. How effective a manager is someone likely to be if they
    ignore input from females, or discount anything from a person of
    color, or for that matter dismiss any suggestions for improvement
    from an hourly worker? If we instructors fail to awaken students to
    their own negative behaviors we provide a less than optimum/
    successful/complete education - and that's _our_ product.

    We're all in this together. We need help from all quarters. It's
    high time we act like it.

    Jay


    On Oct 19, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Godar, Susan wrote:

    > I'd like to respond to the question about the "gender" of the list.
    > It's very important, I think, that all kinds of voices be heard.
    > One of
    > the advantages of this type of sharing, via elists, should be the
    > opportunity to hear a variety of ideas, not just a few people. And
    > not
    > just people of one sex or from one background.
    >
    > I've just finished observing some classes and noted that much of the
    > participation in classes is coming from the males in the class. To me
    > that means a less-effective learning environment for everyone as (a)
    > women are disenfranchised from the class and (b) men are not learning
    > from them. (In another class only the white students were responding
    > and I found that equally disturbing, by the way.) If you're teaching
    > today, I encourage you to pay attention to who's participating in the
    > discussions - and make room for all voices.
    >
    > Sue Godar

    Jay Warner
    Principal Scientist
    Warner Consulting, Inc.
    4444 North Green Bay Road
    Racine, WI 53404-1216
    USA

    Ph: 262.634.9100
    FAX: 262.681.1133
    email: quality@a2q.com
    web: www.a2q.com

    The A2Q Method(tm) --- What do you want to improve today?


  • 4.  Gender of the list - classroom behavior & instructors part in/against it

    Posted 10-22-2005 19:19
    Greetings: Contrary to old research and stereotypes--the young women in my management classes are the brighter of the genders and express themselves very clearly--with a little encouragement from me. Maybe it's the "steel magnolia" thing!
    Dr. Bonnie Garson
    Associate Professor
    McCamish School of Business
    Reinhardt College
    Waleska, Ga 30183.
    >
    > From: George M Munchus III <munchus@UAB.EDU>
    > Date: 2005/10/21 Fri PM 02:51:22 EDT
    > To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: Re: Gender of the list - classroom behavior & instructors part in/against it
    >
    > Hello:
    >
    > As one long time very pushy for positive change type African American
    > male I find this discussion on point.
    >
    >
    > Peace,George Munchus,UAB
    > Professor of Management
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    > [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU]On Behalf Of Jay Warner
    > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:35 PM
    > To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: Re: Gender of the list - classroom behavior & instructors part
    > in/against it
    >
    >
    > I suspect that there is no way a person can participate in this
    > discussion without firmly hitting someone's hackles - with or without
    > validity of participation or hackles. Nonetheless:
    >
    > The greater participation of males in a class, compared to the
    > females in the same classroom, is noted at a very early age.
    > Somewhere around 6th grade it starts to be reinforced by the more
    > vocal boys, as they let the girls know that when girls demand to be
    > heard they are being 'pushy,' and hence undesirable. Why should this
    > effect cease at the undergraduate and graduate level?
    >
    > Similar behavior by White students serves to reinforce cultural
    > expectations of how 'retiring' African-Americans (and other persons
    > of color?) are supposed to behave. Everywhere in the USA there are
    > ways for reining in those African-Americans who get 'pushy.'
    >
    > Males, or White people, don't have to believe and agree with these
    > deductions from observations in order to be 'sexist,' or 'racist.'
    >
    > They just have to go along.
    >
    > (I'm using Beverly Tatum's definition: Tatum, Beverly Daniel;
    > ?Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?? And
    > Other Conversations About Race , Revised Edition, 2003 ,
    > Basic Books)
    >
    > I can understand why students might reinforce intellectually or
    > socially undesirable attitudes. My concern is for the instructor.
    > Since the instructor is nominally in charge of the class activities,
    > I'd like to know what the instructor might do to reduce the imbalance
    > caused by prior cultural indoctrination.
    >
    > I know that in the thick of a class discussion it is quite difficult
    > for an instructor to both guide/lead a discussion and monitor the
    > subtleties of participant subgroups. Nonetheless, even my thick head
    > is able to see some cases. I believe it incumbent upon us, the
    > intellectual leaders of the class (I trust), to assure that the
    > students have enough insight to understand the fact of their
    > behavior, some inkling of the implications and consequences, and
    > perhaps the wisdom to let them decide if they really want to continue
    > through life as such barbaric miscreants.
    >
    > After all, folks in this group are training/teaching the future
    > managers. How effective a manager is someone likely to be if they
    > ignore input from females, or discount anything from a person of
    > color, or for that matter dismiss any suggestions for improvement
    > from an hourly worker? If we instructors fail to awaken students to
    > their own negative behaviors we provide a less than optimum/
    > successful/complete education - and that's _our_ product.
    >
    > We're all in this together. We need help from all quarters. It's
    > high time we act like it.
    >
    > Jay
    >
    >
    > On Oct 19, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Godar, Susan wrote:
    >
    > > I'd like to respond to the question about the "gender" of the list.
    > > It's very important, I think, that all kinds of voices be heard.
    > > One of
    > > the advantages of this type of sharing, via elists, should be the
    > > opportunity to hear a variety of ideas, not just a few people. And
    > > not
    > > just people of one sex or from one background.
    > >
    > > I've just finished observing some classes and noted that much of the
    > > participation in classes is coming from the males in the class. To me
    > > that means a less-effective learning environment for everyone as (a)
    > > women are disenfranchised from the class and (b) men are not learning
    > > from them. (In another class only the white students were responding
    > > and I found that equally disturbing, by the way.) If you're teaching
    > > today, I encourage you to pay attention to who's participating in the
    > > discussions - and make room for all voices.
    > >
    > > Sue Godar
    >
    > Jay Warner
    > Principal Scientist
    > Warner Consulting, Inc.
    > 4444 North Green Bay Road
    > Racine, WI 53404-1216
    > USA
    >
    > Ph: 262.634.9100
    > FAX: 262.681.1133
    > email: quality@a2q.com
    > web: www.a2q.com
    >
    > The A2Q Method(tm) --- What do you want to improve today?
    >