Discussion: View Thread

I tell students on the first day of class that we all have to make trade-offs and with trade-offs come consequences. I tell them that I understand they have things going on outside of school and I completely respect that part of their life. I also tell them that if they choose to be somewhere else instead of class, that they will lose points from their grade because there are consequences to that choice and it's fair to all students in the class for there to be consequences. This puts the control over their decision and grade in their hands rather than mine.

I make exceptions for illness, family illness, and life events over which someone has no choice or control.

It seems to work. I get few people missing classes (or handing in assignments late) because they know that they will have to take the consequences of a lower grade and the choice is completely their own, not mine. It probably falls under the category of "don't accept other people's monkeys". Also, other students recognize that I'm doing what I can to be fair which they appreciate.

Best,
Paula Caproni
Ross School of Business
University of Michigan

________________________________

From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of Krista MILION
Sent: Mon 3/13/2006 3:21 AM
To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
Subject: special student requests to their instructors


Terence Egan shared his technique of using the concept/metaphor "Don't accept other people's monkeys" as of the first lesson

In France we talk about "potates chaudes" or hot potatoes - you throw a hot potato to someone else (i.e. the class lecturer) when it's burning your hands and your first reflex is to get rid of it by handing it to someone else. I, like Terence, have found that using metaphors to mirror some student behaviours helps remind students of their responsibilities while avoiding pedantic discourse. It also is effective when communicating with both indigenous and foreign students - it can even make them laugh at themselves because they see things in a different light and the picture they see is so clear. It especially helps cut short further negotiation attempts - which save us all valuable time. The lesson is learned and the student accepts the late sanction more readily.

I use the metaphor when students ask me what "they" should do the night before group work has to be handed in and they haven't found a group yet (although they were told 5 weeks before about the work and the deadline). Although I only use the expression retroactively it probably would reduce "deviant" student (and maybe future managerial!) behaviour with regards to deadlines if I introduced it, like Terence, as of Day 1.


Krista Finstad-Milion
Associate Professor
Management of Organisations and Human Resources Department
ICN School of Management

06.12.89.12.69

ESIDEC
Technopôle de Metz
3 place Edouard Branly
57070 Metz FRANCE

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Terence Egan
Envoyé : samedi 11 mars 2006 03:15
À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
Objet : Re: Vs: Re: Impolite student email to their instructors

Eija Valli wrote about students expecting accommodations in respect to work commitments.

This is endemic to Chinese post-grad classrooms. In each class of MBAs or PhDs, I'd have 10% who expect special dispensation due to work.

I try to ground all "class problems" in a management context and, in this case, point to the simple fact that it is not my decision to make. The school requires 80% attendance for a grade and they require me to keep accurate records.

Of course, their entreaties tend to continue, however the "broken record" technique limits the time-wasting. "You'll have to speak with the Dean". "You'll have to speak with the Dean." etc etc. Any additional elaboration only opens other avenues of quite futile discussion.

I also introduce the concept "Don't accept other people's monkeys" in the first lesson and mention the "I-have-a-business-trip" phenomenon as a classic example.

Terence Egan
Associate Professor
Central University of Finance and Economics
Beijing



Eija Valli <Eija.Valli@ECON.JYU.FI> wrote:
This seems like a very timely theme and is discussed somewhat in Finland
as well. In our case the problem is not so much in e-mail adresses
being questionable since most students use the adress provided to
them by the University. However we have a growing problem with
students who use their oblications (especially work) as an excuse to
ask for all kinds of favors in a rude manner. They register to a course
requiring attendance and activity fully knowing that they have no plans
to attend in reality yet they expect that the teacher accomodates things
around their needs and schedules.
________________________________

Do you Yahoo!?
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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I approach consequences much as Paula does -- except that I make no
exceptions. I give three reasons: (1) I provide ample opportunity for
extra-credit work to substitute for missing work or work not meeting
students' own goals; (2) I seek to evaluate performance rather than
excuses; (3) I see no logic in providing an exception or credit for work
not done and class experiences not experienced. After several years of
this "no-nonsense" approach to exceptions (while maintaining
understanding and empathy for students' real dilemmas -- I always say
family and health come before a 3-credit course), I am considering
writing to life insurance actuaries. I have found a possible shift in
the life-expectancy table for grandmothers, in that they no longer seem
quite as "at risk" during final exam period.

-Randy



Caproni, Paula wrote:

>I tell students on the first day of class that we all have to make trade-offs and with trade-offs come consequences. I tell them that I understand they have things going on outside of school and I completely respect that part of their life. I also tell them that if they choose to be somewhere else instead of class, that they will lose points from their grade because there are consequences to that choice and it's fair to all students in the class for there to be consequences. This puts the control over their decision and grade in their hands rather than mine.
>
>I make exceptions for illness, family illness, and life events over which someone has no choice or control.
>
>It seems to work. I get few people missing classes (or handing in assignments late) because they know that they will have to take the consequences of a lower grade and the choice is completely their own, not mine. It probably falls under the category of "don't accept other people's monkeys". Also, other students recognize that I'm doing what I can to be fair which they appreciate.
>
>Best,
>Paula Caproni
>Ross School of Business
>University of Michigan
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of Krista MILION
>Sent: Mon 3/13/2006 3:21 AM
>To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
>Subject: special student requests to their instructors
>
>
>Terence Egan shared his technique of using the concept/metaphor "Don't accept other people's monkeys" as of the first lesson
>
>In France we talk about "potates chaudes" or hot potatoes - you throw a hot potato to someone else (i.e. the class lecturer) when it's burning your hands and your first reflex is to get rid of it by handing it to someone else. I, like Terence, have found that using metaphors to mirror some student behaviours helps remind students of their responsibilities while avoiding pedantic discourse. It also is effective when communicating with both indigenous and foreign students - it can even make them laugh at themselves because they see things in a different light and the picture they see is so clear. It especially helps cut short further negotiation attempts - which save us all valuable time. The lesson is learned and the student accepts the late sanction more readily.
>
>I use the metaphor when students ask me what "they" should do the night before group work has to be handed in and they haven't found a group yet (although they were told 5 weeks before about the work and the deadline). Although I only use the expression retroactively it probably would reduce "deviant" student (and maybe future managerial!) behaviour with regards to deadlines if I introduced it, like Terence, as of Day 1.
>
>
>Krista Finstad-Milion
>Associate Professor
>Management of Organisations and Human Resources Department
>ICN School of Management
>
>06.12.89.12.69
>
>ESIDEC
>Technop�le de Metz
>3 place Edouard Branly
>57070 Metz FRANCE
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Terence Egan
>Envoy� : samedi 11 mars 2006 03:15
>� : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
>Objet : Re: Vs: Re: Impolite student email to their instructors
>
>Eija Valli wrote about students expecting accommodations in respect to work commitments.
>
>This is endemic to Chinese post-grad classrooms. In each class of MBAs or PhDs, I'd have 10% who expect special dispensation due to work.
>
>I try to ground all "class problems" in a management context and, in this case, point to the simple fact that it is not my decision to make. The school requires 80% attendance for a grade and they require me to keep accurate records.
>
>Of course, their entreaties tend to continue, however the "broken record" technique limits the time-wasting. "You'll have to speak with the Dean". "You'll have to speak with the Dean." etc etc. Any additional elaboration only opens other avenues of quite futile discussion.
>
>I also introduce the concept "Don't accept other people's monkeys" in the first lesson and mention the "I-have-a-business-trip" phenomenon as a classic example.
>
>Terence Egan
>Associate Professor
>Central University of Finance and Economics
>Beijing
>
>
>
>Eija Valli <Eija.Valli@ECON.JYU.FI> wrote:
> This seems like a very timely theme and is discussed somewhat in Finland
> as well. In our case the problem is not so much in e-mail adresses
> being questionable since most students use the adress provided to
> them by the University. However we have a growing problem with
> students who use their oblications (especially work) as an excuse to
> ask for all kinds of favors in a rude manner. They register to a course
> requiring attendance and activity fully knowing that they have no plans
> to attend in reality yet they expect that the teacher accomodates things
> around their needs and schedules.
>________________________________
>
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/au/mailsms/*http:/au.mobile.yahoo.com/sms/msgr/>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006
>
>
>
>

--
Randall G. Sleeth, Ph.D.
School of Business
Virginia Commonwealth University
901 West Franklin Street
Richmond, VA 23284-4000
804-828-1540
rsleeth@vcu.edu
http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rsleeth

Whilst showing my empathy for the situation Randy describes
(I am similarly bemused by the apparent rise in mortality
rates of students' relatives near exams!) & humour therein,
I am bemused at the approaches different systems and
institutions approach the issue of mitigating circumstances.

At my Sch of Management, tutors have no power in this
regard (late submissions are given 0) but there is an
oversight committee who has the power to allow for
mitigating circumstances when strong evidence (inc death
certificates) is presented by students in support of their
arguments. The committee can then see all such claims and
note where someone seems to have 6 grandmothers all dying
within hours of submission deadlines!

Peter



On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:58:36 -0500 Randy Sleeth
<rsleeth@VCU.EDU> wrote:

> I approach consequences much as Paula does -- except that I make no
> exceptions. I give three reasons: (1) I provide ample opportunity for
> extra-credit work to substitute for missing work or work not meeting
> students' own goals; (2) I seek to evaluate performance rather than
> excuses; (3) I see no logic in providing an exception or credit for work
> not done and class experiences not experienced. After several years of
> this "no-nonsense" approach to exceptions (while maintaining
> understanding and empathy for students' real dilemmas -- I always say
> family and health come before a 3-credit course), I am considering
> writing to life insurance actuaries. I have found a possible shift in
> the life-expectancy table for grandmothers, in that they no longer seem
> quite as "at risk" during final exam period.
>
> -Randy
>
>
>
> Caproni, Paula wrote:
>
> >I tell students on the first day of class that we all have to make trade-offs and with trade-offs come consequences. I tell them that I understand they have things going on outside of school and I completely respect that part of their life. I also tell them that if they choose to be somewhere else instead of class, that they will lose points from their grade because there are consequences to that choice and it's fair to all students in the class for there to be consequences. This puts the control over their decision and grade in their hands rather than mine.
> >
> >I make exceptions for illness, family illness, and life events over which someone has no choice or control.
> >
> >It seems to work. I get few people missing classes (or handing in assignments late) because they know that they will have to take the consequences of a lower grade and the choice is completely their own, not mine. It probably falls under the category of "don't accept other people's monkeys". Also, other students recognize that I'm doing what I can to be fair which they appreciate.
> >
> >Best,
> >Paula Caproni
> >Ross School of Business
> >University of Michigan
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of Krista MILION
> >Sent: Mon 3/13/2006 3:21 AM
> >To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
> >Subject: special student requests to their instructors
> >
> >
> >Terence Egan shared his technique of using the concept/metaphor "Don't accept other people's monkeys" as of the first lesson
> >
> >In France we talk about "potates chaudes" or hot potatoes - you throw a hot potato to someone else (i.e. the class lecturer) when it's burning your hands and your first reflex is to get rid of it by handing it to someone else. I, like Terence, have found that using metaphors to mirror some student behaviours helps remind students of their responsibilities while avoiding pedantic discourse. It also is effective when communicating with both indigenous and foreign students - it can even make them laugh at themselves because they see things in a different light and the picture they see is so clear. It especially helps cut short further negotiation attempts - which save us all valuable time. The lesson is learned and the student accepts the late sanction more readily.
> >
> >I use the metaphor when students ask me what "they" should do the night before group work has to be handed in and they haven't found a group yet (although they were told 5 weeks before about the work and the deadline). Although I only use the expression retroactively it probably would reduce "deviant" student (and maybe future managerial!) behaviour with regards to deadlines if I introduced it, like Terence, as of Day 1.
> >
> >
> >Krista Finstad-Milion
> >Associate Professor
> >Management of Organisations and Human Resources Department
> >ICN School of Management
> >
> >06.12.89.12.69
> >
> >ESIDEC
> >Technopôle de Metz
> >3 place Edouard Branly
> >57070 Metz FRANCE
> >
> >-----Message d'origine-----
> >De : Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Terence Egan
> >Envoyé : samedi 11 mars 2006 03:15
> >À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
> >Objet : Re: Vs: Re: Impolite student email to their instructors
> >
> >Eija Valli wrote about students expecting accommodations in respect to work commitments.
> >
> >This is endemic to Chinese post-grad classrooms. In each class of MBAs or PhDs, I'd have 10% who expect special dispensation due to work.
> >
> >I try to ground all "class problems" in a management context and, in this case, point to the simple fact that it is not my decision to make. The school requires 80% attendance for a grade and they require me to keep accurate records.
> >
> >Of course, their entreaties tend to continue, however the "broken record" technique limits the time-wasting. "You'll have to speak with the Dean". "You'll have to speak with the Dean." etc etc. Any additional elaboration only opens other avenues of quite futile discussion.
> >
> >I also introduce the concept "Don't accept other people's monkeys" in the first lesson and mention the "I-have-a-business-trip" phenomenon as a classic example.
> >
> >Terence Egan
> >Associate Professor
> >Central University of Finance and Economics
> >Beijing
> >
> >
> >
> >Eija Valli <Eija.Valli@ECON.JYU.FI> wrote:
> > This seems like a very timely theme and is discussed somewhat in Finland
> > as well. In our case the problem is not so much in e-mail adresses
> > being questionable since most students use the adress provided to
> > them by the University. However we have a growing problem with
> > students who use their oblications (especially work) as an excuse to
> > ask for all kinds of favors in a rude manner. They register to a course
> > requiring attendance and activity fully knowing that they have no plans
> > to attend in reality yet they expect that the teacher accomodates things
> > around their needs and schedules.
> >________________________________
> >
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/au/mailsms/*http:/au.mobile.yahoo.com/sms/msgr/>
> >--
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006
> >
> >--
> >No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Randall G. Sleeth, Ph.D.
> School of Business
> Virginia Commonwealth University
> 901 West Franklin Street
> Richmond, VA 23284-4000
> 804-828-1540
> rsleeth@vcu.edu
> http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rsleeth

----------------------
Dr Peter Morgan
Faculty Development Co-ordinator
Senior University Teacher

University of Bradford School of Management

Tel: 01274 234391
Fax: 01274 546866 (mark for my attention)

The exception for illness, family emergencies were for serious things such as wife is having a baby, family member died, etc. In these cases, I'm willing to develop another way for the person to learn the material. They can't have the same experience as the class, but I develop something with them so that they put in the same amount of time (sometimes more) and learn similar/same concepts (instead of extra credit work -- there are no ways to do extra credit in our courses because students are all graded on a curve and thus must have similar assignments and output). Obviously, it's more work for me when I do this so I'm very careful about what qualifies. It's interesting to see all the different strategies.

Paula

-----Original Message-----
From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Randy Sleeth
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:59 AM
To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
Subject: Re: special student requests to their instructors


I approach consequences much as Paula does -- except that I make no
exceptions. I give three reasons: (1) I provide ample opportunity for
extra-credit work to substitute for missing work or work not meeting
students' own goals; (2) I seek to evaluate performance rather than
excuses; (3) I see no logic in providing an exception or credit for work
not done and class experiences not experienced. After several years of
this "no-nonsense" approach to exceptions (while maintaining
understanding and empathy for students' real dilemmas -- I always say
family and health come before a 3-credit course), I am considering
writing to life insurance actuaries. I have found a possible shift in
the life-expectancy table for grandmothers, in that they no longer seem
quite as "at risk" during final exam period.

-Randy



Caproni, Paula wrote:

>I tell students on the first day of class that we all have to make
>trade-offs and with trade-offs come consequences. I tell them that I understand they have things going on outside of school and I completely respect that part of their life. I also tell them that if they choose to be somewhere else instead of class, that they will lose points from their grade because there are consequences to that choice and it's fair to all students in the class for there to be consequences. This puts the control over their decision and grade in their hands rather than mine.
>
>I make exceptions for illness, family illness, and life events over
>which someone has no choice or control.
>
>It seems to work. I get few people missing classes (or handing in
>assignments late) because they know that they will have to take the consequences of a lower grade and the choice is completely their own, not mine. It probably falls under the category of "don't accept other people's monkeys". Also, other students recognize that I'm doing what I can to be fair which they appreciate.
>
>Best,
>Paula Caproni
>Ross School of Business
>University of Michigan
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of
>Krista MILION
>Sent: Mon 3/13/2006 3:21 AM
>To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
>Subject: special student requests to their instructors
>
>
>Terence Egan shared his technique of using the concept/metaphor "Don't
>accept other people's monkeys" as of the first lesson
>
>In France we talk about "potates chaudes" or hot potatoes - you throw a
>hot potato to someone else (i.e. the class lecturer) when it's burning your hands and your first reflex is to get rid of it by handing it to someone else. I, like Terence, have found that using metaphors to mirror some student behaviours helps remind students of their responsibilities while avoiding pedantic discourse. It also is effective when communicating with both indigenous and foreign students - it can even make them laugh at themselves because they see things in a different light and the picture they see is so clear. It especially helps cut short further negotiation attempts - which save us all valuable time. The lesson is learned and the student accepts the late sanction more readily.
>
>I use the metaphor when students ask me what "they" should do the night
>before group work has to be handed in and they haven't found a group yet (although they were told 5 weeks before about the work and the deadline). Although I only use the expression retroactively it probably would reduce "deviant" student (and maybe future managerial!) behaviour with regards to deadlines if I introduced it, like Terence, as of Day 1.
>
>
>Krista Finstad-Milion
>Associate Professor
>Management of Organisations and Human Resources Department
>ICN School of Management
>
>06.12.89.12.69
>
>ESIDEC
>Technopôle de Metz
>3 place Edouard Branly
>57070 Metz FRANCE
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : Management Education and Development Discussion
>[mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Terence Egan Envoyé :
>samedi 11 mars 2006 03:15 À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU Objet : Re:
>Vs: Re: Impolite student email to their instructors
>
>Eija Valli wrote about students expecting accommodations in respect to
>work commitments.
>
>This is endemic to Chinese post-grad classrooms. In each class of MBAs
>or PhDs, I'd have 10% who expect special dispensation due to work.
>
>I try to ground all "class problems" in a management context and, in
>this case, point to the simple fact that it is not my decision to make. The school requires 80% attendance for a grade and they require me to keep accurate records.
>
>Of course, their entreaties tend to continue, however the "broken
>record" technique limits the time-wasting. "You'll have to speak with the Dean". "You'll have to speak with the Dean." etc etc. Any additional elaboration only opens other avenues of quite futile discussion.
>
>I also introduce the concept "Don't accept other people's monkeys" in
>the first lesson and mention the "I-have-a-business-trip" phenomenon as a classic example.
>
>Terence Egan
>Associate Professor
>Central University of Finance and Economics
>Beijing
>
>
>
>Eija Valli <Eija.Valli@ECON.JYU.FI> wrote:
> This seems like a very timely theme and is discussed somewhat in Finland
> as well. In our case the problem is not so much in e-mail adresses
> being questionable since most students use the adress provided to
> them by the University. However we have a growing problem with
> students who use their oblications (especially work) as an excuse to
> ask for all kinds of favors in a rude manner. They register to a course
> requiring attendance and activity fully knowing that they have no plans
> to attend in reality yet they expect that the teacher accomodates things
> around their needs and schedules. ________________________________
>
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS
><http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/au/mailsms/*http:/au.mobile.yahoo.com/sms/msgr/>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date:
>10/03/2006
>
>
>
>

--
Randall G. Sleeth, Ph.D.
School of Business
Virginia Commonwealth University
901 West Franklin Street
Richmond, VA 23284-4000
804-828-1540
rsleeth@vcu.edu
http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rsleeth

>Whilst showing my empathy for the situation Randy describes
>(I am similarly bemused by the apparent rise in mortality
>rates of students' relatives near exams!)


For a little levity on this, click below:

http://www.cis.gsu.edu/~dstraub/Courses/Grandma.htm

Best,
Lisa



Lisa T. Stickney
Ph.D. Candidate
The Fox School of Business
and Management
Temple University
Lts@temple.edu

> peter graham morgan wrote:
> Whilst showing my empathy for the situation Randy describes
> (I am similarly bemused by the apparent rise in mortality
> rates of students' relatives near exams ...
> I find that deferring to 'high authority' smokes out a few wraiths.
>

Here, in a 5 section class, they get to take the combined optional final which also cuts down on creative 'emergencies'.
Actually one place I worked I was fed up with creative excuses ('was late for the final because the cows were crossing the road' - actually could have been true - I had been hung up on that road by this - except not at that time of day. I checked.) and so ran a contest for creative excuses. Two types of entries 1) was from faculty and they sent in the best excuse a student used that probably wasn't true and 2) from the students the best excuse they used or wish they had used, to get out of something. While this was years ago and so I no longer remember the excuses, the school paper published the winning entries and runner ups. Rather enlightening. If some students would put as much effort in their school work as they put into excuses they wouldn't need excuses.

Carolyn

I have found a very caring and sensitive answer to the "grandmother" dilemma: I write and send very nice sympathy letters to the students permanent home address. When someone in the family really has passed, the letters are appreciated. When students lie about a death in the family, well . . . How would you react if you received a letter expressing my sympathy and condolences to the family, and saying that I completely understand why your son/daughter had to miss a week of class to attend the funeral?

Another point. I never take points away from students. Rather, I provide opportunities for them to earn points and they can't do so if they are not in class when opportunities are presented. I'm hoping to get students away from what I see as a pervasive attitude about entitlement. They think we are punishing them (taking away points/grades) when in actuality we are simply not rewarding them unless they do the task.

Carolyn Chavez, Ph.D.
Department of Management
New Mexico State University

-----Original Message-----
From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of peter graham morgan
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:44 AM
To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
Subject: Re: special student requests to their instructors

Whilst showing my empathy for the situation Randy describes (I am similarly bemused by the apparent rise in mortality rates of students' relatives near exams!) & humour therein, I am bemused at the approaches different systems and institutions approach the issue of mitigating circumstances.

At my Sch of Management, tutors have no power in this regard (late submissions are given 0) but there is an oversight committee who has the power to allow for mitigating circumstances when strong evidence (inc death
certificates) is presented by students in support of their arguments. The committee can then see all such claims and note where someone seems to have 6 grandmothers all dying within hours of submission deadlines!

Peter



On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:58:36 -0500 Randy Sleeth <rsleeth@VCU.EDU> wrote:

> I approach consequences much as Paula does -- except that I make no
> exceptions. I give three reasons: (1) I provide ample opportunity for
> extra-credit work to substitute for missing work or work not meeting
> students' own goals; (2) I seek to evaluate performance rather than
> excuses; (3) I see no logic in providing an exception or credit for
> work not done and class experiences not experienced. After several
> years of this "no-nonsense" approach to exceptions (while maintaining
> understanding and empathy for students' real dilemmas -- I always say
> family and health come before a 3-credit course), I am considering
> writing to life insurance actuaries. I have found a possible shift in
> the life-expectancy table for grandmothers, in that they no longer
> seem quite as "at risk" during final exam period.
>
> -Randy
>
>
>
> Caproni, Paula wrote:
>
> >I tell students on the first day of class that we all have to make trade-offs and with trade-offs come consequences. I tell them that I understand they have things going on outside of school and I completely respect that part of their life. I also tell them that if they choose to be somewhere else instead of class, that they will lose points from their grade because there are consequences to that choice and it's fair to all students in the class for there to be consequences. This puts the control over their decision and grade in their hands rather than mine.
> >
> >I make exceptions for illness, family illness, and life events over which someone has no choice or control.
> >
> >It seems to work. I get few people missing classes (or handing in assignments late) because they know that they will have to take the consequences of a lower grade and the choice is completely their own, not mine. It probably falls under the category of "don't accept other people's monkeys". Also, other students recognize that I'm doing what I can to be fair which they appreciate.
> >
> >Best,
> >Paula Caproni
> >Ross School of Business
> >University of Michigan
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of
> >Krista MILION
> >Sent: Mon 3/13/2006 3:21 AM
> >To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
> >Subject: special student requests to their instructors
> >
> >
> >Terence Egan shared his technique of using the concept/metaphor
> >"Don't accept other people's monkeys" as of the first lesson
> >
> >In France we talk about "potates chaudes" or hot potatoes - you throw a hot potato to someone else (i.e. the class lecturer) when it's burning your hands and your first reflex is to get rid of it by handing it to someone else. I, like Terence, have found that using metaphors to mirror some student behaviours helps remind students of their responsibilities while avoiding pedantic discourse. It also is effective when communicating with both indigenous and foreign students - it can even make them laugh at themselves because they see things in a different light and the picture they see is so clear. It especially helps cut short further negotiation attempts - which save us all valuable time. The lesson is learned and the student accepts the late sanction more readily.
> >
> >I use the metaphor when students ask me what "they" should do the night before group work has to be handed in and they haven't found a group yet (although they were told 5 weeks before about the work and the deadline). Although I only use the expression retroactively it probably would reduce "deviant" student (and maybe future managerial!) behaviour with regards to deadlines if I introduced it, like Terence, as of Day 1.
> >
> >
> >Krista Finstad-Milion
> >Associate Professor
> >Management of Organisations and Human Resources Department ICN School
> >of Management
> >
> >06.12.89.12.69
> >
> >ESIDEC
> >Technopôle de Metz
> >3 place Edouard Branly
> >57070 Metz FRANCE
> >
> >-----Message d'origine-----
> >De : Management Education and Development Discussion
> >[mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Terence Egan Envoyé
> >: samedi 11 mars 2006 03:15 À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU Objet :
> >Re: Vs: Re: Impolite student email to their instructors
> >
> >Eija Valli wrote about students expecting accommodations in respect to work commitments.
> >
> >This is endemic to Chinese post-grad classrooms. In each class of MBAs or PhDs, I'd have 10% who expect special dispensation due to work.
> >
> >I try to ground all "class problems" in a management context and, in this case, point to the simple fact that it is not my decision to make. The school requires 80% attendance for a grade and they require me to keep accurate records.
> >
> >Of course, their entreaties tend to continue, however the "broken record" technique limits the time-wasting. "You'll have to speak with the Dean". "You'll have to speak with the Dean." etc etc. Any additional elaboration only opens other avenues of quite futile discussion.
> >
> >I also introduce the concept "Don't accept other people's monkeys" in the first lesson and mention the "I-have-a-business-trip" phenomenon as a classic example.
> >
> >Terence Egan
> >Associate Professor
> >Central University of Finance and Economics Beijing
> >
> >
> >
> >Eija Valli <Eija.Valli@ECON.JYU.FI> wrote:
> > This seems like a very timely theme and is discussed somewhat in Finland
> > as well. In our case the problem is not so much in e-mail adresses
> > being questionable since most students use the adress provided to
> > them by the University. However we have a growing problem with
> > students who use their oblications (especially work) as an excuse to
> > ask for all kinds of favors in a rude manner. They register to a course
> > requiring attendance and activity fully knowing that they have no plans
> > to attend in reality yet they expect that the teacher accomodates things
> > around their needs and schedules.
> >________________________________
> >
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS
> ><http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/au/mailsms/*http:/au.mobile.yahoo.com/sms/m
> >sgr/>
> >--
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date:
> >10/03/2006
> >
> >--
> >No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date:
> >10/03/2006
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Randall G. Sleeth, Ph.D.
> School of Business
> Virginia Commonwealth University
> 901 West Franklin Street
> Richmond, VA 23284-4000
> 804-828-1540
> rsleeth@vcu.edu
> http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rsleeth

----------------------
Dr Peter Morgan
Faculty Development Co-ordinator
Senior University Teacher

University of Bradford School of Management

Tel: 01274 234391
Fax: 01274 546866 (mark for my attention)

On Mar 13, 2006, at 3:13 PM, Chavez, Carolyn wrote:

> I have found a very caring and sensitive answer to the
> "grandmother" dilemma: I write and send very nice sympathy letters
> to the students permanent home address. When someone in the family
> really has passed, the letters are appreciated. When students lie
> about a death in the family, well . . . How would you react if you
> received a letter expressing my sympathy and condolences to the
> family, and saying that I completely understand why your son/
> daughter had to miss a week of class to attend the funeral?

I sure hope you let the students know near the start that you will be
doing this! I'll bet word gets around quickly among the students, at
least the ones who were there the last time it happened!

>
> Another point. I never take points away from students. Rather, I
> provide opportunities for them to earn points and they can't do so
> if they are not in class when opportunities are presented.

I did that also, for all the points earned in the entire course. the
students caught on, with a few who were unsure of the 'uncommon'
system. An additional part is that by earning more points, a student
could in principle, earn over 100% of the points (work, effort,
learning) expected for the course. - an obvious A. Relatively few
people chose to garner say 125% of the course. The faculty, however,
had much more trouble with a 'zero base' grade scheme or a scale with
no upper limit.

Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA

Ph: 262.634.9100
Fax: 262.681.1133
email: quality@a2q.com
web: www.a2q.com

The A2Q Method (tm) -- What do you want to improve today?

We have a similar scheme... Faculty have no discretion, and students have to file for 'Extenuating Circumstances' (and provide evidence...).

The Ext Circ committee (which is an administrative committee with no Academics as members) then decides...

This works well as it removes the queue of students outside my door - they go to see the student support office instead !!!

Steve

======================================
Dr. Steve Leybourne
Senior Lecturer in HR Studies
CMS/DMS Programme Manager
Plymouth Business School
Drake Circus
PLYMOUTH PL4 8AA
======================================
Tel: +44 (0)1752 233542
Fax: +44 (0)1752 232847
Email: Stephen.Leybourne@plymouth.ac.uk
Web: www.plymouth.ac.uk/staff/sLeybourne
======================================


-----Original Message-----
From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of peter graham morgan
Sent: 13 March 2006 14:44
To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
Subject: Re: special student requests to their instructors

Whilst showing my empathy for the situation Randy describes
(I am similarly bemused by the apparent rise in mortality
rates of students' relatives near exams!) & humour therein,
I am bemused at the approaches different systems and
institutions approach the issue of mitigating circumstances.

At my Sch of Management, tutors have no power in this
regard (late submissions are given 0) but there is an
oversight committee who has the power to allow for
mitigating circumstances when strong evidence (inc death
certificates) is presented by students in support of their
arguments. The committee can then see all such claims and
note where someone seems to have 6 grandmothers all dying
within hours of submission deadlines!

Peter



On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:58:36 -0500 Randy Sleeth
<rsleeth@VCU.EDU> wrote:

> I approach consequences much as Paula does -- except that I make no
> exceptions. I give three reasons: (1) I provide ample opportunity for
> extra-credit work to substitute for missing work or work not meeting
> students' own goals; (2) I seek to evaluate performance rather than
> excuses; (3) I see no logic in providing an exception or credit for work
> not done and class experiences not experienced. After several years of
> this "no-nonsense" approach to exceptions (while maintaining
> understanding and empathy for students' real dilemmas -- I always say
> family and health come before a 3-credit course), I am considering
> writing to life insurance actuaries. I have found a possible shift in
> the life-expectancy table for grandmothers, in that they no longer seem
> quite as "at risk" during final exam period.
>
> -Randy
>
>
>
> Caproni, Paula wrote:
>
> >I tell students on the first day of class that we all have to make trade-offs and with trade-offs come consequences. I tell them that I understand they have things going on outside of school and I completely respect that part of their life. I also tell them that if they choose to be somewhere else instead of class, that they will lose points from their grade because there are consequences to that choice and it's fair to all students in the class for there to be consequences. This puts the control over their decision and grade in their hands rather than mine.
> >
> >I make exceptions for illness, family illness, and life events over which someone has no choice or control.
> >
> >It seems to work. I get few people missing classes (or handing in assignments late) because they know that they will have to take the consequences of a lower grade and the choice is completely their own, not mine. It probably falls under the category of "don't accept other people's monkeys". Also, other students recognize that I'm doing what I can to be fair which they appreciate.
> >
> >Best,
> >Paula Caproni
> >Ross School of Business
> >University of Michigan
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of Krista MILION
> >Sent: Mon 3/13/2006 3:21 AM
> >To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
> >Subject: special student requests to their instructors
> >
> >
> >Terence Egan shared his technique of using the concept/metaphor "Don't accept other people's monkeys" as of the first lesson
> >
> >In France we talk about "potates chaudes" or hot potatoes - you throw a hot potato to someone else (i.e. the class lecturer) when it's burning your hands and your first reflex is to get rid of it by handing it to someone else. I, like Terence, have found that using metaphors to mirror some student behaviours helps remind students of their responsibilities while avoiding pedantic discourse. It also is effective when communicating with both indigenous and foreign students - it can even make them laugh at themselves because they see things in a different light and the picture they see is so clear. It especially helps cut short further negotiation attempts - which save us all valuable time. The lesson is learned and the student accepts the late sanction more readily.
> >
> >I use the metaphor when students ask me what "they" should do the night before group work has to be handed in and they haven't found a group yet (although they were told 5 weeks before about the work and the deadline). Although I only use the expression retroactively it probably would reduce "deviant" student (and maybe future managerial!) behaviour with regards to deadlines if I introduced it, like Terence, as of Day 1.
> >
> >
> >Krista Finstad-Milion
> >Associate Professor
> >Management of Organisations and Human Resources Department
> >ICN School of Management
> >
> >06.12.89.12.69
> >
> >ESIDEC
> >Technopôle de Metz
> >3 place Edouard Branly
> >57070 Metz FRANCE
> >
> >-----Message d'origine-----
> >De : Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Terence Egan
> >Envoyé : samedi 11 mars 2006 03:15
> >À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
> >Objet : Re: Vs: Re: Impolite student email to their instructors
> >
> >Eija Valli wrote about students expecting accommodations in respect to work commitments.
> >
> >This is endemic to Chinese post-grad classrooms. In each class of MBAs or PhDs, I'd have 10% who expect special dispensation due to work.
> >
> >I try to ground all "class problems" in a management context and, in this case, point to the simple fact that it is not my decision to make. The school requires 80% attendance for a grade and they require me to keep accurate records.
> >
> >Of course, their entreaties tend to continue, however the "broken record" technique limits the time-wasting. "You'll have to speak with the Dean". "You'll have to speak with the Dean." etc etc. Any additional elaboration only opens other avenues of quite futile discussion.
> >
> >I also introduce the concept "Don't accept other people's monkeys" in the first lesson and mention the "I-have-a-business-trip" phenomenon as a classic example.
> >
> >Terence Egan
> >Associate Professor
> >Central University of Finance and Economics
> >Beijing
> >
> >
> >
> >Eija Valli <Eija.Valli@ECON.JYU.FI> wrote:
> > This seems like a very timely theme and is discussed somewhat in Finland
> > as well. In our case the problem is not so much in e-mail adresses
> > being questionable since most students use the adress provided to
> > them by the University. However we have a growing problem with
> > students who use their oblications (especially work) as an excuse to
> > ask for all kinds of favors in a rude manner. They register to a course
> > requiring attendance and activity fully knowing that they have no plans
> > to attend in reality yet they expect that the teacher accomodates things
> > around their needs and schedules.
> >________________________________
> >
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/au/mailsms/*http:/au.mobile.yahoo.com/sms/msgr/>
> >--
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006
> >
> >--
> >No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Randall G. Sleeth, Ph.D.
> School of Business
> Virginia Commonwealth University
> 901 West Franklin Street
> Richmond, VA 23284-4000
> 804-828-1540
> rsleeth@vcu.edu
> http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rsleeth

----------------------
Dr Peter Morgan
Faculty Development Co-ordinator
Senior University Teacher

University of Bradford School of Management

Tel: 01274 234391
Fax: 01274 546866 (mark for my attention)

This rule (Ext Circ committee decision) also pushes the decision-
making UP, not DOWN. With the result that we have another layer of
organization, managerial time and (gasp!) beuracracy. Time spent
_not_ changing synapses, IMHO. Granted, the instructor no longer has
to put up with all the rationales and whining. I realize that MBA
students are past masters at weasling for each point and
'benny.' [Not to pick on one group needlessly :) ]

Is there another way to help the students grow up?

Jay
On Mar 14, 2006, at 6:14 AM, Stephen Leybourne wrote:

> We have a similar scheme... Faculty have no discretion, and
> students have to file for 'Extenuating Circumstances' (and provide
> evidence...).
>
> The Ext Circ committee (which is an administrative committee with
> no Academics as members) then decides...
>
> This works well as it removes the queue of students outside my door
> - they go to see the student support office instead !!!
>
> Steve
>
> ======================================
> Dr. Steve Leybourne
> Senior Lecturer in HR Studies
> CMS/DMS Programme Manager
> Plymouth Business School
> Drake Circus
> PLYMOUTH PL4 8AA
> ======================================
> Tel: +44 (0)1752 233542
> Fax: +44 (0)1752 232847
> Email: Stephen.Leybourne@plymouth.ac.uk
> Web: www.plymouth.ac.uk/staff/sLeybourne
> ======================================
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-
> DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of peter graham morgan
> Sent: 13 March 2006 14:44
> To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
> Subject: Re: special student requests to their instructors
>
> Whilst showing my empathy for the situation Randy describes
> (I am similarly bemused by the apparent rise in mortality
> rates of students' relatives near exams!) & humour therein,
> I am bemused at the approaches different systems and
> institutions approach the issue of mitigating circumstances.
>
> At my Sch of Management, tutors have no power in this
> regard (late submissions are given 0) but there is an
> oversight committee who has the power to allow for
> mitigating circumstances when strong evidence (inc death
> certificates) is presented by students in support of their
> arguments. The committee can then see all such claims and
> note where someone seems to have 6 grandmothers all dying
> within hours of submission deadlines!
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:58:36 -0500 Randy Sleeth
> <rsleeth@VCU.EDU> wrote:
>
>> I approach consequences much as Paula does -- except that I make no
>> exceptions. I give three reasons: (1) I provide ample
>> opportunity for
>> extra-credit work to substitute for missing work or work not meeting
>> students' own goals; (2) I seek to evaluate performance rather than
>> excuses; (3) I see no logic in providing an exception or credit
>> for work
>> not done and class experiences not experienced. After several
>> years of
>> this "no-nonsense" approach to exceptions (while maintaining
>> understanding and empathy for students' real dilemmas -- I always say
>> family and health come before a 3-credit course), I am considering
>> writing to life insurance actuaries. I have found a possible
>> shift in
>> the life-expectancy table for grandmothers, in that they no longer
>> seem
>> quite as "at risk" during final exam period.
>>
>> -Randy
>>
>>
>>
>> Caproni, Paula wrote:
>>
>>> I tell students on the first day of class that we all have to
>>> make trade-offs and with trade-offs come consequences. I tell
>>> them that I understand they have things going on outside of
>>> school and I completely respect that part of their life. I also
>>> tell them that if they choose to be somewhere else instead of
>>> class, that they will lose points from their grade because there
>>> are consequences to that choice and it's fair to all students in
>>> the class for there to be consequences. This puts the control
>>> over their decision and grade in their hands rather than mine.
>>>
>>> I make exceptions for illness, family illness, and life events
>>> over which someone has no choice or control.
>>>
>>> It seems to work. I get few people missing classes (or handing
>>> in assignments late) because they know that they will have to
>>> take the consequences of a lower grade and the choice is
>>> completely their own, not mine. It probably falls under the
>>> category of "don't accept other people's monkeys". Also, other
>>> students recognize that I'm doing what I can to be fair which
>>> they appreciate.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Paula Caproni
>>> Ross School of Business
>>> University of Michigan
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf
>>> of Krista MILION
>>> Sent: Mon 3/13/2006 3:21 AM
>>> To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
>>> Subject: special student requests to their instructors
>>>
>>>
>>> Terence Egan shared his technique of using the concept/metaphor
>>> "Don't accept other people's monkeys" as of the first lesson
>>>
>>> In France we talk about "potates chaudes" or hot potatoes - you
>>> throw a hot potato to someone else (i.e. the class lecturer) when
>>> it's burning your hands and your first reflex is to get rid of it
>>> by handing it to someone else. I, like Terence, have found that
>>> using metaphors to mirror some student behaviours helps remind
>>> students of their responsibilities while avoiding pedantic
>>> discourse. It also is effective when communicating with both
>>> indigenous and foreign students - it can even make them laugh at
>>> themselves because they see things in a different light and the
>>> picture they see is so clear. It especially helps cut short
>>> further negotiation attempts - which save us all valuable time.
>>> The lesson is learned and the student accepts the late sanction
>>> more readily.
>>>
>>> I use the metaphor when students ask me what "they" should do the
>>> night before group work has to be handed in and they haven't
>>> found a group yet (although they were told 5 weeks before about
>>> the work and the deadline). Although I only use the expression
>>> retroactively it probably would reduce "deviant" student (and
>>> maybe future managerial!) behaviour with regards to deadlines if
>>> I introduced it, like Terence, as of Day 1.
>>>
>>>
>>> Krista Finstad-Milion
>>> Associate Professor
>>> Management of Organisations and Human Resources Department
>>> ICN School of Management
>>>
>>> 06.12.89.12.69
>>>
>>> ESIDEC
>>> Technopôle de Metz
>>> 3 place Edouard Branly
>>> 57070 Metz FRANCE
>>>
>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>> De : Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-
>>> ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Terence Egan
>>> Envoyé : samedi 11 mars 2006 03:15
>>> À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
>>> Objet : Re: Vs: Re: Impolite student email to their instructors
>>>
>>> Eija Valli wrote about students expecting accommodations in
>>> respect to work commitments.
>>>
>>> This is endemic to Chinese post-grad classrooms. In each class of
>>> MBAs or PhDs, I'd have 10% who expect special dispensation due to
>>> work.
>>>
>>> I try to ground all "class problems" in a management context and,
>>> in this case, point to the simple fact that it is not my decision
>>> to make. The school requires 80% attendance for a grade and they
>>> require me to keep accurate records.
>>>
>>> Of course, their entreaties tend to continue, however the "broken
>>> record" technique limits the time-wasting. "You'll have to speak
>>> with the Dean". "You'll have to speak with the Dean." etc etc.
>>> Any additional elaboration only opens other avenues of quite
>>> futile discussion.
>>>
>>> I also introduce the concept "Don't accept other people's
>>> monkeys" in the first lesson and mention the "I-have-a-business-
>>> trip" phenomenon as a classic example.
>>>
>>> Terence Egan
>>> Associate Professor
>>> Central University of Finance and Economics
>>> Beijing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eija Valli <Eija.Valli@ECON.JYU.FI> wrote:
>>> This seems like a very timely theme and is discussed somewhat in
>>> Finland
>>> as well. In our case the problem is not so much in e-mail adresses
>>> being questionable since most students use the adress provided to
>>> them by the University. However we have a growing problem with
>>> students who use their oblications (especially work) as an
>>> excuse to
>>> ask for all kinds of favors in a rude manner. They register to a
>>> course
>>> requiring attendance and activity fully knowing that they have
>>> no plans
>>> to attend in reality yet they expect that the teacher
>>> accomodates things
>>> around their needs and schedules.
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>> Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS <http://
>>> rd.yahoo.com/mail/au/mailsms/*http:/au.mobile.yahoo.com/sms/msgr/>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date:
>>> 10/03/2006
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date:
>>> 10/03/2006
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Randall G. Sleeth, Ph.D.
>> School of Business
>> Virginia Commonwealth University
>> 901 West Franklin Street
>> Richmond, VA 23284-4000
>> 804-828-1540
>> rsleeth@vcu.edu
>> http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rsleeth
>
> ----------------------
> Dr Peter Morgan
> Faculty Development Co-ordinator
> Senior University Teacher
>
> University of Bradford School of Management
>
> Tel: 01274 234391
> Fax: 01274 546866 (mark for my attention)
>

Jay Warner
Principal Scientist
Warner Consulting, Inc.
4444 North Green Bay Road
Racine, WI 53404-1216
USA

Ph: 262.634.9100
Fax: 262.681.1133
email: quality@a2q.com
web: www.a2q.com

The A2Q Method (tm) -- What do you want to improve today?