Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  How much homework?

    Posted 08-23-2006 23:04
    Fellow Members,
     
    My students (Under-grad, Post-grad and MBA) say that I give more homework (self-study, assignments and activities) than any other teacher. 
     
    What is a reasonable amount of homework per class hour?
    Should assignments for assessment be considered separately?
     
    Terence Egan
     
     
     


    Terence Egan
    Professor
    Business and MBA Schools
    Central University of Finance and Economics
    Beijing, PR China
     


    On Yahoo!7
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  • 2.  How much homework?

    Posted 08-24-2006 04:42
    Terence,
     
    If they are serious about getting 'value' from classes, then 1:1:1 - an hour to prepare for each hour and an hour to reflect on each hour is a simple pedagogical rule of thumb.  Assuming a full-time load of four x 3 attendance hour classes, 12 attendance hours gives 24 out-of-class hours, totalling 36 hours of a 'normal' week of five days x eight hours, leaving a half a day off for sport!  Then the weekends/nights can be devoted to the assessable 'deliverables'.
     
    Now, in the real world, where even full-time students have part-time jobs to support themselves...    ???
     
    Regards,
     
    John Thornton
    Flexible Learning Centre
    University of South Australia


    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Terence Egan
    Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 12:34 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: How much homework?

    Fellow Members,
     
    My students (Under-grad, Post-grad and MBA) say that I give more homework (self-study, assignments and activities) than any other teacher. 
     
    What is a reasonable amount of homework per class hour?
    Should assignments for assessment be considered separately?
     
    Terence Egan
     
     
     


    Terence Egan
    Professor
    Business and MBA Schools
    Central University of Finance and Economics
    Beijing, PR China
     


    On Yahoo!7
    Coming soon: Celebrity Survivor - 11 celebrities, 25 days, unlimited drama


  • 3.  How much homework?

    Posted 08-24-2006 04:49
    Dear Terence:
     
    In Europe, are working to establish the European Area for Higher Education and for that, in agree to Bologna accord ( 1999) they work the Tuning Project, where one item is the ECTS ( European Credit Transfer and Accumulation system).
     
    This ECTS point "credits" for a courses in under-grad or post-grad, not any more based in the hours worked by the teacher ( theory and practice); instead this ECTS point "credits" based on the quantity of hours worked by the student ( Class, assesment sesions, homework etc)
     
    Find attached one article of the Tuning project, detailing the method to define the ECTS.
     
    Regards
     
     
    Jorge Cuadros
    National Engingeering University
    Lima-Peru 
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:04 PM
    Subject: How much homework?

    Fellow Members,
     
    My students (Under-grad, Post-grad and MBA) say that I give more homework (self-study, assignments and activities) than any other teacher. 
     
    What is a reasonable amount of homework per class hour?
    Should assignments for assessment be considered separately?
     
    Terence Egan
     
     
     


    Terence Egan
    Professor
    Business and MBA Schools
    Central University of Finance and Economics
    Beijing, PR China
     


    On Yahoo!7
    Coming soon: Celebrity Survivor - 11 celebrities, 25 days, unlimited drama


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  • 4.  How much homework?

    Posted 08-24-2006 10:14

    Terence,

     

    I require my UG and MBA students to turn in weekly assignments – case analysis, reflection journals, Study Questions, etc.  I also assign 1 – 2 major group projects each semester (research paper, presentation, Portfolio, etc.).  I generally give 5-8 Qwests (not comprehensive enough to be called a test, too hard to be called a quiz – thus Qwests) throughout the semester.  They read 1-2 chapters plus handouts each week.  My Ph.D. and post grad students get a lot more.

     

    They also say I give them too much work.  But then, they have a vested interest in doing so.  I say -- follow your heart – do whatever it takes to insure that students learn.  After all, that is a major reason that we chose this career.  It is also likely that your teaching standards are one of the reasons the university hired you.

     

    Carolyn Chavez (aka Dr. "C")

    Department of Management

    <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype> <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype></st1:place>

     

     


    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Terence Egan
    Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:04 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: How much homework?

     

    Fellow Members,

     

    My students (Under-grad, Post-grad and MBA) say that I give more homework (self-study, assignments and activities) than any other teacher. 

     

    What is a reasonable amount of homework per class hour?

    Should assignments for assessment be considered separately?

     

    Terence Egan

     

     

     

     

    Terence Egan
    Professor
    Business and <st1:placename w:st="on">MBA</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Schools</st1:placetype>
    <st1:placename w:st="on">Central</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype> of Finance and Economics
    <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Beijing</st1:place></st1:city>, PR China

     

     


    On Yahoo!7
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  • 5.  How much homework?

    Posted 08-24-2006 12:50

    Hi there,

    We expect our MBA students to spend 2-3 times as many hours outside of class on individual and group study as they spend in class.

    Markus

     *******************************************
    Markus Vodosek, Ph.D.
    Assistant Professor
    Department of Management
    David Eccles School of Business
    University of Utah
    1645 E. Campus Center Drive #106
    Salt Lake City, UT 84112-9304
    Tel. (801) 585-9546
    Fax (801) 581-7214
    markvodo@business.utah.edu
    *******************************************



    Terence Egan <terence_laoshi@YAHOO.COM.AU>
    Sent by: Management Education and Development Discussion <MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>

    08/23/2006 09:04 PM

    Please respond to
    Management Education and Development Discussion              <MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU>

    To
    MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    cc
    Subject
    How much homework?





    Fellow Members,
     
    My students (Under-grad, Post-grad and MBA) say that I give more homework (self-study, assignments and activities) than any other teacher.
     
    What is a reasonable amount of homework per class hour?
    Should assignments for assessment be considered separately?
     
    Terence Egan
     
     
     


    Terence Egan
    Professor
    Business and MBA Schools
    Central University of Finance and Economics
    Beijing, PR China

    terence_laoshi@yahoo.com.au
     

     


    On Yahoo!7
    Coming soon: Celebrity Survivor - 11 celebrities, 25 days, unlimited drama



  • 6.  How much homework?

    Posted 08-24-2006 13:43
    When I have a lot of weekly similar assignments (like a learning memo) I put on the syllabus one "get out of jail free" card and one "procrastination" card. The get out of jail free card allows them to miss and get full credit for one of these weekly assignments (if a student chooses not to use it then I drop their lowest grade and make it full credit - about 1/3 of the students choose that option) and the procrastination card (some limits on what they can use it for) buys them 3 school days extra to turn in the assignment. In both cases it is 'no questions asked, no explanation needed". I tell them they would be prudent to save these cards for when they really need them like when they are sick, when they have a ton of assignments due in another class or when tests bunch up. I also tell them they can't "sell" the card to others. It is non-transferable. I print these as actual cards on the sylabus (they lose fewer sylabusses this way as well which was a surprise side benefit -
    AND if they lose their card (since they have to turn in the acutal card with their name, assignment is is used on and stapled to a piece of paper if they are skippipng an assignment) they usually don't come to me to get another one - they make a photocopy from someone else who has an unused one and if they have lost the syulabus they usually copy that then as well.

    This has cut down considerably on both whinning and 'the dog ate my printer" excuses since I am no longer the arbitrator of what is an acceptable excuse.

    Carolyn
    U of Idaho

    > Terence,
    >
    > I require my UG and MBA students to turn in weekly assignments - case
    > analysis, reflection journals, Study Questions, etc. I also
    > assign 1 - 2
    > major group projects each semester (research paper, presentation,
    > Portfolio,etc.). I generally give 5-8 Qwests (not comprehensive
    > enough to be called a
    > test, too hard to be called a quiz - thus Qwests) throughout the
    > semester.They read 1-2 chapters plus handouts each week. My Ph.D.
    > and post grad
    > students get a lot more.
    >
    >
    >
    > They also say I give them too much work. But then, they have a vested
    > interest in doing so. I say -- follow your heart - do whatever it
    > takes to
    > insure that students learn. After all, that is a major reason
    > that we chose
    > this career. It is also likely that your teaching standards are
    > one of the
    > reasons the university hired you.
    >
    >
    >
    > Carolyn Chavez (aka Dr. "C")
    >
    > Department of Management
    >
    > New Mexico State University
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    > [MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Terence Egan
    > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:04 PM
    > To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: How much homework?
    >
    >
    >
    > Fellow Members,
    >
    >
    >
    > My students (Under-grad, Post-grad and MBA) say that I give more
    > homework(self-study, assignments and activities) than any other
    > teacher.
    >
    >
    >
    > What is a reasonable amount of homework per class hour?
    >
    > Should assignments for assessment be considered separately?
    >
    >
    >
    > Terence Egan
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Terence Egan
    > Professor
    > Business and MBA Schools
    > Central University of Finance and Economics
    > Beijing, PR China
    >
    > terence_laoshi@yahoo.com.au
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > On Yahoo!7
    > Coming
    > <http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tag/**http%3A%2F%2Fau.yahoo.com%2Fcelebrity-sur
    > vivor%2F> soon: Celebrity Survivor - 11 celebrities, 25 days,
    > unlimiteddrama
    >
    >


  • 7.  How much homework?

    Posted 08-24-2006 13:57
    Carolyn, Terence, other friends:

    Here's how I calculate a fair load.  

    Let's assume the students are treating their studies as they would a job.  If a full-time employee works 1800 hours a year, we have a baseline.  (Fifty-two nweeks a year at 37.5 hours per week, minus two weeks of vacation, and 10 days of statutory holidays => 48 weeks * 37.5 hours => 1800 hours / year.)  Then, let's assume a normal load is 5 courses a semester, equivalent to one-third of a year.  Hence a full-time student would carry five courses each semester, for an annual load of 15 courses.  Thus, an appropriate expectation for normal performance would 1800/15 hours per course, or 120 hours.  

    If we have 13 weeks of classes, with three hours per week, 39 of those hours are dedicated to being in class.  
    I also use a reading/pred load of 1:1, so another 39 hours are assigned to readings and other class prep.  Now think, how many pages of what kind of material can you read for comprehension in an hour?  Multiple that by 39 and you have a fair reading load for a semester-long course.  (If your reading and other prep load is 1:2, then you have essentially designed a course with class time and prep time adding up to 117 hours, leaving 3 hours for assignments or exams....)  

    At this point, we have used up 78 of the 120 hours on classes and class prep, leaving us 42 hours for assignments.  How long should it take an average student to do a good job on each assignment?  Add it up, and then cut back on either the assignments or the expectations of depth until you get back to 42 total hours.

    Grading needs to be aligned with time commitments.  An assignment for which only ten hours is allocated can't be worth 50% of the grade!  That said, what portion of the grade is assigned to class time or class-prep time?  In non-exam courses, I try to make sure that classroom parts of the time budget support the students' work on specific assignments.  An alternative is to use exams, keyed to that part of the course.  

    For me, this formula defines a fair allocation of time, for an average student, expecting average results, i.e., a B for graduate students, and a C for undergrads.  Some students want to work harder, some less.  Some are more efficient, some are less efficient.  some may be smarter than others.  But this formula establishes a fair level of effort.  

    I include these time budgets in my syllabi, as part of the contract with students, demonstrating what I think is a reasonable commitment on their parts -- and defining what I think is a reasonable level of effort on theirs.  Many assignments have to be calibrated on this basis.  What is the reasonable output for a book report, for example?  Well, how much time does it take to read the book?  Then think about it?  Do some ancillary research?  Write and edit the report?  If the answer is 100 hours, don't expect anyone to attend class or prepare for it!  For example, I often have a mini-version of a business plan assignment in my Entrepreneurship courses.  Since most VC-considered business plans take 500-1000 hours of good professional time to develop, it would be totally unfair to expect such a product at such a standard from any 120-hour/student course.  Consequently, I have developed 10-hour, 25-hour, and 50-hour versions of that assignment, and communicated to the students the differences among them.  They need to know what I expect as a fair output.  

    The above formula is one we can adjust for different course formats.  If a full-time annual load is 12 courses, for example, then a fair course would require 150 hours of focused effort.  The benchmark remains the number of hours a full-time professional would reasonable be required to commit in that profession.  We know that some people put in a lot of overtime -- but that is bonus effort.  Conversely, some countries have a full-time work definition under 1800 hours.  Adjust accordingly.  I find that a real load of 100-150 hours works well.  Instructors who assign loads above that deserve to be pummeled on their evaluations, as they are forcing students to put in uncompensated overtime -- or cut back on work in other faculty's courses -- neither of which is fair.  

    I find this time budget helps students to understand what level of effort means in their future occupations, and something about their choices in effort.  

    Best,
    Tom.

    Dr. Tom Bryant
    Visiting Rohrer Professor of Entrepreneurial Studies
    Rowan University, Glassboro, NJ 08028, USA


    On Aug 24, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Carolyn Chavez wrote:

    Terence,

     

    I require my UG and MBA students to turn in weekly assignments – case analysis, reflection journals, Study Questions, etc.  I also assign 1 – 2 major group projects each semester (research paper, presentation, Portfolio, etc.).  I generally give 5-8 Qwests (not comprehensive enough to be called a test, too hard to be called a quiz – thus Qwests) throughout the semester.  They read 1-2 chapters plus handouts each week.  My Ph.D. and post grad students get a lot more.

     

    They also say I give them too much work.  But then, they have a vested interest in doing so.  I say -- follow your heart – do whatever it takes to insure that students learn.  After all, that is a major reason that we chose this career.  It is also likely that your teaching standards are one of the reasons the university hired you.

     

    Carolyn Chavez (aka Dr. "C")

    Department of Management

    <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype> <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype></st1:place>

     

     


    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Terence Egan
    Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:04 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: How much homework?

     

    Fellow Members,

     

    My students (Under-grad, Post-grad and MBA) say that I give more homework (self-study, assignments and activities) than any other teacher. 

     

    What is a reasonable amount of homework per class hour?

    Should assignments for assessment be considered separately?

     

    Terence Egan

     

     

     

     

    Terence Egan
    Professor
    Business and <st1:placename w:st="on">MBA</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Schools</st1:placetype>
    <st1:placename w:st="on">Central</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype> of Finance and Economics
    <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Beijing</st1:place></st1:city>, PR China

     

     


    On Yahoo!7
    Coming soon: Celebrity Survivor - 11 celebrities, 25 days, unlimited drama





  • 8.  How much homework?

    Posted 08-24-2006 21:02
    Hi, folks.
     
    I just caught onto this thread and am probably repeating some initial cautions from the audience but here it goes:
     
    Asking how much homework to assign approaches the learning issue from the bottom up. Just as we teach students to begin with mission-->strategy-->tactics-->operations, we ourselves need to be clear about the scope (breadth and depth) of the course content FIRST, then the course structure required to efficiently and effectively produce the target outcomes SECOND. Depending on the institution and our own expertise, we may or may not have a lot of discretion about these areas. The amount of work assigned to students should be sufficient (quality and quantity) to produce those outcomes. In short, knowledge and performance-related outcomes are everything... it's function first, then form. 
     
    I know I'm preaching to the choir here. I just had to get it off my chest. Thanks.
     
    Ralph

    Tom Bryant <tom.brystra@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
    Carolyn, Terence, other friends:

    Here's how I calculate a fair load.  

    Let's assume the students are treating their studies as they would a job.  If a full-time employee works 1800 hours a year, we have a baseline.  (Fifty-two nweeks a year at 37.5 hours per week, minus two weeks of vacation, and 10 days of statutory holidays => 48 weeks * 37.5 hours => 1800 hours / year.)  Then, let's assume a normal load is 5 courses a semester, equivalent to one-third of a year.  Hence a full-time student would carry five courses each semester, for an annual load of 15 courses.  Thus, an appropriate expectation for normal performance would 1800/15 hours per course, or 120 hours.  

    If we have 13 weeks of classes, with three hours per week, 39 of those hours are dedicated to being in class.  
    I also use a reading/pred load of 1:1, so another 39 hours are assigned to readings and other class prep.  Now think, how many pages of what kind of material can you read for comprehension in an hour?  Multiple that by 39 and you have a fair reading load for a semester-long course.  (If your reading and other prep load is 1:2, then you have essentially designed a course with class time and prep time adding up to 117 hours, leaving 3 hours for assignments or exams....)  

    At this point, we have used up 78 of the 120 hours on classes and class prep, leaving us 42 hours for assignments.  How long should it take an average student to do a good job on each assignment?  Add it up, and then cut back on either the assignments or the expectations of depth until you get back to 42 total hours.

    Grading needs to be aligned with time commitments.  An assignment for which only ten hours is allocated can't be worth 50% of the grade!  That said, what portion of the grade is assigned to class time or class-prep time?  In non-exam courses, I try to make sure that classroom parts of the time budget support the students' work on specific assignments.  An alternative is to use exams, keyed to that part of the course.  

    For me, this formula defines a fair allocation of time, for an average student, expecting average results, i.e., a B for graduate students, and a C for undergrads.  Some students want to work harder, some less.  Some are more efficient, some are less efficient.  some may be smarter than others.  But this formula establishes a fair level of effort.  

    I include these time budgets in my syllabi, as part of the contract with students, demonstrating what I think is a reasonable commitment on their parts -- and defining what I think is a reasonable level of effort on theirs.  Many assignments have to be calibrated on this basis.  What is the reasonable output for a book report, for example?  Well, how much time does it take to read the book?  Then think about it?  Do some ancillary research?  Write and edit the report?  If the answer is 100 hours, don't expect anyone to attend class or prepare for it!  For example, I often have a mini-version of a business plan assignment in my Entrepreneurship courses.  Since most VC-considered business plans take 500-1000 hours of good professional time to develop, it would be totally unfair to expect such a product at such a standard from any 120-hour/student course.  Consequently, I have developed 10-hour, 25-hour, and 50-hour versions of that assignment, and communicated to the students the differences among them.  They need to know what I expect as a fair output.  

    The above formula is one we can adjust for different course formats.  If a full-time annual load is 12 courses, for example, then a fair course would require 150 hours of focused effort.  The benchmark remains the number of hours a full-time professional would reasonable be required to commit in that profession.  We know that some people put in a lot of overtime -- but that is bonus effort.  Conversely, some countries have a full-time work definition under 1800 hours.  Adjust accordingly.  I find that a real load of 100-150 hours works well.  Instructors who assign loads above that deserve to be pummeled on their evaluations, as they are forcing students to put in uncompensated overtime -- or cut back on work in other faculty's courses -- neither of which is fair.  

    I find this time budget helps students to understand what level of effort means in their future occupations, and something about their choices in effort.  

    Best,
    Tom.

    Dr. Tom Bryant
    Visiting Rohrer Professor of Entrepreneurial Studies
    Rowan University, Glassboro, NJ 08028, USA


    On Aug 24, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Carolyn Chavez wrote:

    Terence,
     
    I require my UG and MBA students to turn in weekly assignments – case analysis, reflection journals, Study Questions, etc.  I also assign 1 – 2 major group projects each semester (research paper, presentation, Portfolio, etc.).  I generally give 5-8 Qwests (not comprehensive enough to be called a test, too hard to be called a quiz – thus Qwests) throughout the semester.  They read 1-2 chapters plus handouts each week.  My Ph.D. and post grad students get a lot more.
     
    They also say I give them too much work.  But then, they have a vested interest in doing so.  I say -- follow your heart – do whatever it takes to insure that students learn.  After all, that is a major reason that we chose this career.  It is also likely that your teaching standards are one of the reasons the university hired you.
     
    Carolyn Chavez (aka Dr. “C”)
    Department of Management
    <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placename w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">State</st1:placetype> <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype></st1:place>
     
     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Terence Egan
    Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:04 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: How much homework?
     
    Fellow Members,
     
    My students (Under-grad, Post-grad and MBA) say that I give more homework (self-study, assignments and activities) than any other teacher. 
     
    What is a reasonable amount of homework per class hour?
    Should assignments for assessment be considered separately?
     
    Terence Egan
     
     
     
     
    Terence Egan
    Professor
    Business and <st1:placename w:st="on">MBA</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">Schools</st1:placetype>
    <st1:placename w:st="on">Central</st1:placename> <st1:placetype w:st="on">University</st1:placetype> of Finance and Economics
    <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Beijing</st1:place></st1:city>, PR China
     
     







    Ralph A. Rodriguez, Ph.D.

    Department of Management
    Anderson Hall, Room 308 
    West Chester University of PA
    West Chester, PA 19383 
    (610) 436-1095
     
    rrodriguez@wcupa.edu