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Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

  • 1.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-15-2009 03:39
    Hi all,
    I'd like to swing the discussion in a little different direction.  Instead of looking at how to lower the cost of textbooks and whether to go "open source", I'd like to raise the question of whether textbooks are really necessary (apologies to all of the textbook writers).  I think the important question isn't economics, it's pedagogy.  What are our teaching goals and how can we best achieve them?

    I don't think I've used a textbook in at least 12 years.  To be fair, I have to admit that I now teach in a college of education but even before that, when I was in an organizational psychology program, the situation was the same.  I don't want to pump my students full of theories that are disconnected to their world and tell them to do implement them later.  I try to teach them how to look at what's happening (either in the field or in a written case), how to realize its complexity, and how to learn from it.  They can investigate possible explanations (theories), I can tell them about them, they can read about them ...  But it doesn't have to be a "textbook".  There are articles, internet, books in the library. There are things I write, things past students have written, people to talk to.  There's their own knowledge and experience and that of their fellow students.

    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).

    In short - there are a lot of options.  It all depends on us as teachers (and I suggest we look at ourselves as teachers or learning facilitators and not as "lecturers").

    Just my opinion.
    Be well,
    Bobbie



    On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Barnett, Michael <mbarnett@coba.usf.edu> wrote:
    -- Fair warning: I'm cross-posting yet again.  When will I ever reform?
     





  • 2.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-15-2009 14:26
    Bobbie. Bravo! Bullseye. How refreshing it is to hear someone start with the question, "How can I as an instructor provide the most effective pedagogical processes for learning in my course?" and then go on to ask "What materials, if any, will be effectively supportive of those processes?" and "What skills do I need to develop to effectively facilitate those learning processes for my students?" In 1986, I abandoned what I call the "breadth approach to learning" where I used a textbook and a different case each week and went to what I call the "deep approach to learning.". For the last 23 years, I have conducted the integrative capstone strategy course at the end of the MBA program by using a single, multiple issue, cross-functional, complex case for the entire semester. It has allowed my students to surface multiple interpretations of the evidence available in the case, surface assumptions for projecting into the future and critiquing those assumptions, and examining what happens if those assumptions turn out to be too generous or too conservative (sensitivity analysis). I have very successfully used a modified approach to the deep use of cases in other courses as well, including a financial management course. Unfortunately, I haven't found anyone writing integrative cases that are multiple issue, cross-functional, and complex any more. There are no human resource strategy cases that include sufficient cost and financial evidence to allow for examination of the financial implications. There is rarely a complex marketing case these days that provides sufficent cost and financial information as well as information on production and process issues to be integrative. And there are other examples as well. It seems that narrow disciplinary silo views prevail.

    I can easily see how publishers and authors would not be happy with a widespread use of this approach as there would be a lot fewer textbooks sold and royalties paid, but in my mind a lot more effective learning. We should all read Merriam and Caffarella's comprehensive examination of adult learning, Learning in Adulthood (1999).

    Thanks for raising the questions.

    Tom Hawk
    Professor of Management
    Frostburg State University

    ________________________________

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion on behalf of Bobbie Turniansky
    Sent: Sun 3/15/2009 3:39 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts


    Hi all,
    I'd like to swing the discussion in a little different direction. Instead of looking at how to lower the cost of textbooks and whether to go "open source", I'd like to raise the question of whether textbooks are really necessary (apologies to all of the textbook writers). I think the important question isn't economics, it's pedagogy. What are our teaching goals and how can we best achieve them?

    I don't think I've used a textbook in at least 12 years. To be fair, I have to admit that I now teach in a college of education but even before that, when I was in an organizational psychology program, the situation was the same. I don't want to pump my students full of theories that are disconnected to their world and tell them to do implement them later. I try to teach them how to look at what's happening (either in the field or in a written case), how to realize its complexity, and how to learn from it. They can investigate possible explanations (theories), I can tell them about them, they can read about them ... But it doesn't have to be a "textbook". There are articles, internet, books in the library. There are things I write, things past students have written, people to talk to. There's their own knowledge and experience and that of their fellow students.

    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).

    In short - there are a lot of options. It all depends on us as teachers (and I suggest we look at ourselves as teachers or learning facilitators and not as "lecturers").

    Just my opinion.
    Be well,
    Bobbie



    On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Barnett, Michael <mbarnett@coba.usf.edu> wrote:



    -- Fair warning: I'm cross-posting yet again. When will I ever reform?


  • 3.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-15-2009 14:55
    In a message dated 3/15/2009 5:45:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bturniansky@GMAIL.COM writes:

    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).


    Question, Bobby

    What do you do to ensure adequate conceptual learning foundation before you have
    students work on a case?  I agree that we should be managers of learning rather than lecturers, but it seems that we can avoid some lectures only if students cooperate by being willing followers - I know that brings us full circle back to our responsibility as 'leaders' who motivate.

    Still, my question about adequate conceptual foundation remains as the focus of this posting.

    Cheers,

    Erwin


    **************
    Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)


  • 4.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-15-2009 19:51
    In a message dated 3/15/2009 5:06:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, THawk@FROSTBURG.EDU writes:

    There are no human resource strategy cases that include sufficient cost and financial evidence to allow for examination of the financial implications.


    Dear Tom (and others):

    If you would like collaborators to develop such a case, I would be available.

    Cheers,

    Erwin


    **************
    Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)


  • 5.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-16-2009 04:10
    Hi Erwin,
    I don't think that the concepts always have to (or should) come before working on a case (or something similar).  For example, in our situation, when we work on a story that someone brings in from their own experience, the first step we do (after asking "clarification questions" to make sure the facts are understood) is have everyone give a name or title to it.  That small step in itself is very powerful when the students start to see that the subject of a story (or case) is in itself up for discussion.  For example, what one person see as a case about managerial power is, in the eyes of another person, a case about workers' rights, or motivation, or something else.  They all heard the same story but this helps bring to life the complexity of reality.

    From there we move on to gathering concepts that are connected to the story and raising questions that stem from it (a process I think is much more effective than sticking to the questions that the case writers think should be asked).  Here is the point where I, as an educator, can help them conceptualize the ideas and questions they have - help them put them into "professional" terms.  Now they can start investigating what they already know (or think they know) about these questions, concepts and theories.  Now they can check out the Theory (published, "academic") and the theory (their personal theories and assumptions).  The next stage is to go back to the original story and see if it looks different after this process.

    This is the short version of a process that is obviously a bit more complex.  It is mainly a group process, not an individual one.

    Erwin, You are absolutely correct - the process needs willing followers and often we're swimming upstream against a current composed of many years of learning differently.  It takes a while and it requires commitment but I think it's worth it.

    That's it for now,
    Bobbie



    On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Erwin Rausch <DidacticRa@aol.com> wrote:
    In a message dated 3/15/2009 5:45:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bturniansky@GMAIL.COM writes:

    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).


    Question, Bobby

    What do you do to ensure adequate conceptual learning foundation before you have
    students work on a case?  I agree that we should be managers of learning rather than lecturers, but it seems that we can avoid some lectures only if students cooperate by being willing followers - I know that brings us full circle back to our responsibility as 'leaders' who motivate.

    Still, my question about adequate conceptual foundation remains as the focus of this posting.

    Cheers,

    Erwin


    **************
    Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)



  • 6.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-16-2009 05:00

    Sounds like the Kolbe learning cycle to me...

     

    Daniel S. EVANS Ph.D.

    Chief Innovation Officer

    EMLYON Executive Education

     

     

    +33 4 78 33 79 63 (fixed)

    +33 6 78 41 42 59 (mobile)

    evans@em-lyon.com

     

    " I am always ready to learn although I do not always like to be taught" - Winston Churchill

     

    De : Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Bobbie Turniansky
    Envoyé : lundi 16 mars 2009 09:10
    À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Objet : Re: Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

     

    Hi Erwin,

    I don't think that the concepts always have to (or should) come before working on a case (or something similar).  For example, in our situation, when we work on a story that someone brings in from their own experience, the first step we do (after asking "clarification questions" to make sure the facts are understood) is have everyone give a name or title to it.  That small step in itself is very powerful when the students start to see that the subject of a story (or case) is in itself up for discussion.  For example, what one person see as a case about managerial power is, in the eyes of another person, a case about workers' rights, or motivation, or something else.  They all heard the same story but this helps bring to life the complexity of reality.

     

    From there we move on to gathering concepts that are connected to the story and raising questions that stem from it (a process I think is much more effective than sticking to the questions that the case writers think should be asked).  Here is the point where I, as an educator, can help them conceptualize the ideas and questions they have - help them put them into "professional" terms.  Now they can start investigating what they already know (or think they know) about these questions, concepts and theories.  Now they can check out the Theory (published, "academic") and the theory (their personal theories and assumptions).  The next stage is to go back to the original story and see if it looks different after this process.

     

    This is the short version of a process that is obviously a bit more complex.  It is mainly a group process, not an individual one.

     

    Erwin, You are absolutely correct - the process needs willing followers and often we're swimming upstream against a current composed of many years of learning differently.  It takes a while and it requires commitment but I think it's worth it.

     

    That's it for now,

    Bobbie

     

     

    On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Erwin Rausch <DidacticRa@aol.com> wrote:

    In a message dated 3/15/2009 5:45:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bturniansky@GMAIL.COM writes:


    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).

     

    Question, Bobby

    What do you do to ensure adequate conceptual learning foundation before you have
    students work on a case?  I agree that we should be managers of learning rather than lecturers, but it seems that we can avoid some lectures only if students cooperate by being willing followers - I know that brings us full circle back to our responsibility as 'leaders' who motivate.

    Still, my question about adequate conceptual foundation remains as the focus of this posting.

    Cheers,

    Erwin


    **************
    Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)

     

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  • 7.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-16-2009 06:40
    In a message dated 3/15/2009 4:44:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bturniansky@GMAIL.COM writes:
    I'd like to swing the discussion in a little different direction.  Instead of looking at how to lower the cost of textbooks and whether to go "open source", I'd like to raise the question of whether textbooks are really necessary (apologies to all of the textbook writers).  I think the important question isn't economics, it's pedagogy.  What are our teaching goals and how can we best achieve them?

    I don't think I've used a textbook in at least 12 years.  To be fair, I have to admit that I now teach in a college of education but even before that, when I was in an organizational psychology program, the situation was the same.  I don't want to pump my students full of theories that are disconnected to their world and tell them to do implement them later.  I try to teach them how to look at what's happening (either in the field or in a written case), how to realize its complexity, and how to learn from it.  They can investigate possible explanations (theories), I can tell them about them, they can read about them ...  But it doesn't have to be a "textbook".  There are articles, internet, books in the library. There are things I write, things past students have written, people to talk to.  There's their own knowledge and experience and that of their fellow students.

    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).

    In short - there are a lot of options.  It all depends on us as teachers (and I suggest we look at ourselves as teachers or learning facilitators and not as "lecturers").

    Just my opinion.
    Be well,
    Bobbie
    Hi Bobbie, I agree, I use selected content books for my classes in management strategy, leadership, research methods, etc.  These books can be purchased at a discount when you negotiate with the publisher.  For example, Information Age Publishing in Charlotte NC, USA is offering its management and education books at 10 book for $10.00 USD each.  They are normally four times this.  IAP is celebrating its 10 years in business.  Just a word to the wise professor who cares about his/her struggling students.
     
    George Graen
    /jag

    A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!


  • 8.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-16-2009 06:59
    I'd like to put my two cents worth into this discussion.
     
    I've taught as an adjunct for a couple of different universities, and I'm expecting to do so again in the near future. I have no choice in the matter. The textbooks I am obligated to teach from are rubbish, in my opinion; but, I'm forced to use them. So, what I do is use them as a structure for the course, refer to them as I feel is necessary, and supplement the classes with material that I think is relevant. One of the problems I face is that the student evaluation forms ask if the instructor used the textbook. If it was my decision, I'd scrap the textbooks in some cases, use different books in others.
     
    Cheers, Bruce
     

    Bruce Hoag, PhD
    Organizational Psychologist
    Expert Ezine Articles Author

    ------------------------------------------------------
    "It's Work, But Not as We Know It" considers how the workplace will look after the recession. To read it, sign up for my free newsletter. http://www.p-advantage.com/Newsletter.php

    Read my blog: http://www.p-advantage.com/Blog

    Link to me: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhoag1

    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/management_guru



    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: George Graen <Lmxlotus@aol.com>
    Date: 2009/3/16
    Subject: Re: Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts
    To: MG-ED-DV@aomlists.pace.edu


    In a message dated 3/15/2009 4:44:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bturniansky@GMAIL.COM writes:
    I'd like to swing the discussion in a little different direction.  Instead of looking at how to lower the cost of textbooks and whether to go "open source", I'd like to raise the question of whether textbooks are really necessary (apologies to all of the textbook writers).  I think the important question isn't economics, it's pedagogy.  What are our teaching goals and how can we best achieve them?

    I don't think I've used a textbook in at least 12 years.  To be fair, I have to admit that I now teach in a college of education but even before that, when I was in an organizational psychology program, the situation was the same.  I don't want to pump my students full of theories that are disconnected to their world and tell them to do implement them later.  I try to teach them how to look at what's happening (either in the field or in a written case), how to realize its complexity, and how to learn from it.  They can investigate possible explanations (theories), I can tell them about them, they can read about them ...  But it doesn't have to be a "textbook".  There are articles, internet, books in the library. There are things I write, things past students have written, people to talk to.  There's their own knowledge and experience and that of their fellow students.

    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).

    In short - there are a lot of options.  It all depends on us as teachers (and I suggest we look at ourselves as teachers or learning facilitators and not as "lecturers").

    Just my opinion.
    Be well,
    Bobbie
    Hi Bobbie, I agree, I use selected content books for my classes in management strategy, leadership, research methods, etc.  These books can be purchased at a discount when you negotiate with the publisher.  For example, Information Age Publishing in Charlotte NC, USA is offering its management and education books at 10 book for $10.00 USD each.  They are normally four times this.  IAP is celebrating its 10 years in business.  Just a word to the wise professor who cares about his/her struggling students.
     
    George Graen
    /jag

    A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!



  • 9.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-16-2009 09:08

    Sorry to read you are forced to use certain textbooks. We have some modules with this requirement but most are indicative reading. In additional we use TALLIS and this is mostly journal articles, which are more up to date.

    Regards

    Norah

     

    Professor Norah Jones
    Head of The Centre for Excellence in Learning and Teaching
    University of Glamorgan
    CF37 1DL
    Tel 01443 654094
    email njones2@glam.ac.uk
    http://learning.weblog.glam.ac.uk
    http://celt.glam.ac.uk

     

    From: <st1:personname w:st="on">Management Education and Development Discussion</st1:personname> [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Hoag
    Sent: 16 March 2009 10:59
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Fwd: Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

     

    I'd like to put my two cents worth into this discussion.

     

    I've taught as an adjunct for a couple of different universities, and I'm expecting to do so again in the near future. I have no choice in the matter. The textbooks I am obligated to teach from are rubbish, in my opinion; but, I'm forced to use them. So, what I do is use them as a structure for the course, refer to them as I feel is necessary, and supplement the classes with material that I think is relevant. One of the problems I face is that the student evaluation forms ask if the instructor used the textbook. If it was my decision, I'd scrap the textbooks in some cases, use different books in others.

     

    Cheers, Bruce

     


    Bruce Hoag, PhD
    Organizational Psychologist
    Expert Ezine Articles Author

    ------------------------------------------------------
    "It's Work, But Not as We Know It" considers how the workplace will look after the recession. To read it, sign up for my free newsletter. http://www.p-advantage.com/Newsletter.php

    Read my blog: http://www.p-advantage.com/Blog

    Link to me: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhoag1

    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/management_guru


    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: George Graen <Lmxlotus@aol.com>
    Date: 2009/3/16
    Subject: Re: Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts
    To: MG-ED-DV@aomlists.pace.edu

    In a message dated 3/15/2009 4:44:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bturniansky@GMAIL.COM writes:

    I'd like to swing the discussion in a little different direction.  Instead of looking at how to lower the cost of textbooks and whether to go "open source", I'd like to raise the question of whether textbooks are really necessary (apologies to all of the textbook writers).  I think the important question isn't economics, it's pedagogy.  What are our teaching goals and how can we best achieve them?

     

    I don't think I've used a textbook in at least 12 years.  To be fair, I have to admit that I now teach in a college of education but even before that, when I was in an organizational psychology program, the situation was the same.  I don't want to pump my students full of theories that are disconnected to their world and tell them to do implement them later.  I try to teach them how to look at what's happening (either in the field or in a written case), how to realize its complexity, and how to learn from it.  They can investigate possible explanations (theories), I can tell them about them, they can read about them ...  But it doesn't have to be a "textbook".  There are articles, internet, books in the library. There are things I write, things past students have written, people to talk to.  There's their own knowledge and experience and that of their fellow students.

     

    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).

     

    In short - there are a lot of options.  It all depends on us as teachers (and I suggest we look at ourselves as teachers or learning facilitators and not as "lecturers").

     

    Just my opinion.

    Be well,

    Bobbie

    Hi Bobbie, I agree, I use selected content books for my classes in management strategy, leadership, research methods, etc.  These books can be purchased at a discount when you negotiate with the publisher.  For example, Information Age Publishing in Charlotte NC, <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">USA</st1:place></st1:country-region> is offering its management and education books at 10 book for $10.00 USD each.  They are normally four times this.  IAP is celebrating its 10 years in business.  Just a word to the wise professor who cares about his/her struggling students.

     

    George Graen

    /jag

     

    A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

     



  • 10.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-16-2009 09:16

    Erwin,

     

    With the respect due excellent lecturers, I wonder why we think telling students about theory is the right way for them to build their own conceptual foundations?  My experience is that they need interesting reasons to know theory, in order to go after it for themselves in our writings, or even to listen to us talk (and talk).  

     

    David

     

     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Erwin Rausch
    Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:55 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

     

    In a message dated 3/15/2009 5:45:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bturniansky@GMAIL.COM writes:


    The "cases" we use are either stories they bring from the field (if they're working) or real-world stories from the press (when I was teaching organizational psychology and organizational theory we used a lot of stories from "Fast Company" and the newspapers).



    Question, Bobby

    What do you do to ensure adequate conceptual learning foundation before you have
    students work on a case?  I agree that we should be managers of learning rather than lecturers, but it seems that we can avoid some lectures only if students cooperate by being willing followers - I know that brings us full circle back to our responsibility as 'leaders' who motivate.

    Still, my question about adequate conceptual foundation remains as the focus of this posting.

    Cheers,

    Erwin


    **************
    Need a job? Find employment help in your area. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)



  • 11.  Pedagogy (new subject) - subject was: Open source texts

    Posted 03-16-2009 14:56
    In a message dated 3/16/2009 5:53:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, evans@EM-LYON.COM writes:

    From there we move on to gathering concepts that are connected to the story and raising questions that stem from it (a process I think is much more effective than sticking to the questions that the case writers think should be asked).  Here is the point where I, as an educator, can help them conceptualize the ideas and questions they have - help them put them into "professional" terms.


    Dear Bobbie:

    That answers my question about concepts.  I asked it because it has been my experience that too many instructors - in and out of academia - fail to pay enough attention for conceptual grounding of case discussions and role-plays.

    Erwin


    **************
    Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)