Hmmm Stimulating Debate cont.
> >Instead of usurping, why not make the engineer part of the
> >management team?
> That's fine with me. But why equate the role with the title? Many people
> can do engineering without being engineering professionals. Also,
> engineering professionals typically have little credentials in engineering
> people-based processes.
Hold the fort! Have you ever checked out what it
takes to become a P.E.? <ahem, clearing throat>
One thing granted... engineers could use a
people skills course taught cross-discipline
by either management or HRD. ;)
> >So why not have engineering professionals teach in B schools?
> That's a good idea. And why not have B-school professors teach in
> engineering schools.
OK. Why don't you try doing that? Get ahold of
Engineering Dept. head and volunteer to do just that!
> Well, I have not experienced much profit, personnaly, <:(= but I am glad to
> know you are one of the "they" who are interested in profits.
I figure even mutual funds are nothing more than
a legalized way of gambling. Our little pitance is
not enough to get excited about. Remember...
we be just pondscum ;)
> >Hah hah! I likes it. Hmmm a kind of internship for profs. eh?
> ><giant smile>
> Only if they want to become practitioners rather than just professors.
>
> But it is not really an internship (who there is qualified to "intern"
> you?).
Yup. Know any co. in Knoxville?
>Rather, it is more like your laboratory for testing your
> hypotheses. (I trust that you do warn your students that you are only
> promulgating hypotheses.)
Actually I explain to my students... here is the theory
from on high and here is the way it is in the *real* world.
See I be a pondscummer with *real* world experience such
as:
teaching in the lower grades
techsupport at CC
"secretary" aka office assistant
file clerk/reception
stand-up apps. trainer
desktop publisher....
instructional designer/needs analysis HRD yadda yadda ya ya ya
etc. etc. etc.
> >Have heard horror stories.... I am firmly on the poor
> >peons side <giant smile> afterall am one myself.
> Sounds like you are stuck in the we-they, management-labor, have-have nots
> paradigm.
Ah oh... there be that silly 2 ten cent pieces word again. ;(
>This is America. Darn near every manager came from "labor."
> Every leader serves labor.
Oh really? Not be my experience. Too bad "they" don't
always. Hmmmm we all know managers that started as
managers and didn't serve time as pondscum.
>What in the world do you teach?
Intro. to Computers for absolute
rank beginners -> undergrad. and grad.
>It calls instead for creating a learning room
> >> (better yet a co-learning room) and integrating it with the work room.
Ah yes, you really should read my proposal for
career development system for on-site, in-company
use!
mentoring
training
coaching
career/networking opps. etc. etc. etc.
> >Ah, my favorite in OJT. Why not take the classroom to
> >the job?
> That's a start. Of course the "classroom" is the wrong paradigm but the
> idea of getting outside of Descarte's Temples is the right direction.
Grrr there's that irritating word again. Sounds like you too
be stuck in administrivia and academiology.
> I would like to hear more about them.
Ah read my response on Shyness. Gives you major hints.
That and the above.
> Do you help them understand, BY DOING, such things as learning styles,
Hmmm really need to see how my course is designed....
Full of what you suggest. Hands on all the way.
Afterall ... HRD is about producing a product blending
technical and humans
> >> A more basic proposal is: let's address the question of whether Management
> >> Education should be left to B Schools.
I think I answered that.
> >Hmmm sounds like just-in-time, just-enough! Gee whiz
> >a human resource idea! U Ree Kah!
> Pretty close. But as long as you view humans as resources rather than the
> reason for being in business, you are in a self-made rut.
Ok. How about Performance Support Systems....?
Besides, you said I be viewing humans as resources... I didn't
Bad assumption.
see sig.
> Okay, I don't know but I won't ask who is Payton Manning. The more
> pertinent question is: who is Pat Gantt?
A real nice person ;) with a brain and heart to match.
Who you be?
> >Been nice and stimulating. Like the ideas put forth above.
> We agree on yet another point.
Actually, I'm glad you picked up on the adjunct idea.
Guess what I be? Har. I have had adjunct w/ good real
world experience and have had some clinkers too.
gross generalizations..... Had a few profs. who obviously
do real world stuff on the side too.
--
Best Regards,
Pat Gantt
pagantt@worldnet.att.net Pat@HomeMail.com
The University of Tennessee M.S. Human Resource Development
Electronic Performance Instructor Information Source Locator (ISL)