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Performance and values

  • 1.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-10-2009 05:34

    Whilst the debate on values has been useful in its own terms, could I respectfully submit that it has moved beyond the simple question of how higher ethical standards might have mitigated the current crisis and into the realm of wishful thinking.

     

    The chances of eliminating the profit motive [even if that were a good thing] are absolutely zero, or even getting it significantly moderated by higher values. Equally unlikely is that teaching ethics in business schools could eliminate from the global management community everyone who might behave wrongly – apart from anything else, many successful business people do not go through formal business education in which they might be exposed to such teaching. [By all means keep doing it, but just don't expect to have a huge impact.] It is equally fanciful to imagine we can architect a fundamentally 'different approach' to business, whatever that might be.

     

    The reality, I suggest, is that we will for the foreseeable future have to live with a world in which the profit motive continues to dominate, and in which a minority of executives and financiers seek to make themselves wealthy at the expense of others, both within accepted ethical norms [e.g. taking market share from competitors] and outside them. ... in which case, the question shifts from how we can re-engineer human nature to how we can set up systems to guard against the problems caused by its harmful excesses.

     

    No such systems are likely to be feasible until executives, investors, regulators etc. share a much stronger understanding of how any business system functions and delivers profits [and other outcomes] from quarter to quarter, year to year. To the best of my knowledge, no such model currently exists. If it did, we would have read analyst reports on corporate performance with comments such as "This action taken by firm X may have raised last quarter's earnings by Y%, but will likely damage earnings 2-3 years from now. So we recommend selling this stock in spite of its earnings rise." Anyone ever seen such a comment? They should have appeared like confetti over the last 3-4 years.

     

    Kim Warren: London Business School.

     

     

     



  • 2.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-10-2009 11:54
    Kim,

    I think the fact that states in the US are slowly moving away from the shareholder model to the stakeholder model reflects a slow but identifiable rejection of the notion of profits for the shareholders over all else. More than 22 states have changed their corporate laws on this, but unfortunately, Delaware has not, and most publicly traded US companies are incorporated in Delaware. Eventually, changes will come to Delaware, too, though. Your comments on the worship of quarterly profits undermining the ultimate betterment of the firm are unfortunately too accurate. Until we all believe in corporate survival as a greater value than shareholder profit, the stakeholder model value will have serious headwinds. Alarmingly to many, though, survival as a value has achieved new meaning in the last year!

    Best,
    Bill

    William P. Ferris, Ph.D.

    Professor of Management

    <st1:place><st1:placetype>School</st1:placetype> of <st1:placename>Business</st1:placename></st1:place>

    <st1:place><st1:placename>Western</st1:placename> <st1:placename>New England</st1:placename> <st1:placetype>College</st1:placetype></st1:place>

    <st1:street><st1:address>1215 Wilbraham Road</st1:address></st1:street>

    <st1:place><st1:city>Springfield</st1:city>, <st1:state>MA</st1:state> <st1:postalcode>01119</st1:postalcode></st1:place>

     

    Tel: 413-782-1629

    Fax: 413-796-2068

     

     



    Kim Warren wrote:
    9E1465F9BB6B4546A7BA1753DD3CB48E1D6BA1@sbsserver.GSD.local" type="cite">

    Whilst the debate on values has been useful in its own terms, could I respectfully submit that it has moved beyond the simple question of how higher ethical standards might have mitigated the current crisis and into the realm of wishful thinking.

     

    The chances of eliminating the profit motive [even if that were a good thing] are absolutely zero, or even getting it significantly moderated by higher values. Equally unlikely is that teaching ethics in business schools could eliminate from the global management community everyone who might behave wrongly – apart from anything else, many successful business people do not go through formal business education in which they might be exposed to such teaching. [By all means keep doing it, but just don't expect to have a huge impact.] It is equally fanciful to imagine we can architect a fundamentally 'different approach' to business, whatever that might be.

     

    The reality, I suggest, is that we will for the foreseeable future have to live with a world in which the profit motive continues to dominate, and in which a minority of executives and financiers seek to make themselves wealthy at the expense of others, both within accepted ethical norms [e.g. taking market share from competitors] and outside them. ... in which case, the question shifts from how we can re-engineer human nature to how we can set up systems to guard against the problems caused by its harmful excesses.

     

    No such systems are likely to be feasible until executives, investors, regulators etc. share a much stronger understanding of how any business system functions and delivers profits [and other outcomes] from quarter to quarter, year to year. To the best of my knowledge, no such model currently exists. If it did, we would have read analyst reports on corporate performance with comments such as "This action taken by firm X may have raised last quarter's earnings by Y%, but will likely damage earnings 2-3 years from now. So we recommend selling this stock in spite of its earnings rise." Anyone ever seen such a comment? They should have appeared like confetti over the last 3-4 years.

     

    Kim Warren: London Business School.

     

     

     



  • 3.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-10-2009 14:32

    Bill

     

    Can you provide more details on the 22 states that have amended their corporate laws in the way you indicate below?    Can you name a few of the states for me?  I'd like to pursue the wording changes and see what is happening.  Also, by any chance do you have any information on the first state to make the change?  I am a Delaware CPA and have no information on the phenomenon you mention.

     

    Many thanks

    Carolyn

     

     

    Carolyn J. Fausnaugh PhD CPA

    Assistant Professor of Strategy & New Ventures

    College of Business

    Florida Institute of Technology

    150 W. University Boulevard

    Melbourne, Florida 32901 - 6975

    321-674-7375  Office Phone

    321-674-8896  FAX

    cfausnau@fit.edu  E-mail

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Ferris
    Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:54 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

     

    Kim,

    I think the fact that states in the US are slowly moving away from the shareholder model to the stakeholder model reflects a slow but identifiable rejection of the notion of profits for the shareholders over all else. More than 22 states have changed their corporate laws on this, but unfortunately, Delaware has not, and most publicly traded US companies are incorporated in Delaware. Eventually, changes will come to Delaware, too, though. Your comments on the worship of quarterly profits undermining the ultimate betterment of the firm are unfortunately too accurate. Until we all believe in corporate survival as a greater value than shareholder profit, the stakeholder model value will have serious headwinds. Alarmingly to many, though, survival as a value has achieved new meaning in the last year!

    Best,
    Bill

    <u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place">

    William P. Ferris, Ph.D.<u1:p></u1:p>

    Professor of Management<u1:p></u1:p>

    <st1:place><st1:placetype>School</st1:placetype> of <st1:placename>Business</st1:placename></st1:place>

    <u1:p></u1:p>

    <st1:place><st1:placename>Western</st1:placename> <st1:placename>New England</st1:placename> <st1:placetype>College</st1:placetype></st1:place>

    <u1:p></u1:p>

    <st1:street><st1:address>1215 Wilbraham Road</st1:address></st1:street>

    <u1:p></u1:p>

    <st1:place><st1:city>Springfield</st1:city>, <st1:state>MA</st1:state> <st1:postalcode>01119</st1:postalcode></st1:place>

    <u1:p></u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    Tel: 413-782-1629<u1:p></u1:p>

    Fax: 413-796-2068<u1:p></u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>



    Kim Warren wrote:

    Whilst the debate on values has been useful in its own terms, could I respectfully submit that it has moved beyond the simple question of how higher ethical standards might have mitigated the current crisis and into the realm of wishful thinking. <u1:p></u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    The chances of eliminating the profit motive [even if that were a good thing] are absolutely zero, or even getting it significantly moderated by higher values. Equally unlikely is that teaching ethics in business schools could eliminate from the global management community everyone who might behave wrongly – apart from anything else, many successful business people do not go through formal business education in which they might be exposed to such teaching. [By all means keep doing it, but just don't expect to have a huge impact.] It is equally fanciful to imagine we can architect a fundamentally 'different approach' to business, whatever that might be. <u1:p></u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    The reality, I suggest, is that we will for the foreseeable future have to live with a world in which the profit motive continues to dominate, and in which a minority of executives and financiers seek to make themselves wealthy at the expense of others, both within accepted ethical norms [e.g. taking market share from competitors] and outside them. ... in which case, the question shifts from how we can re-engineer human nature to how we can set up systems to guard against the problems caused by its harmful excesses.<u1:p></u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    No such systems are likely to be feasible until executives, investors, regulators etc. share a much stronger understanding of how any business system functions and delivers profits [and other outcomes] from quarter to quarter, year to year. To the best of my knowledge, no such model currently exists. If it did, we would have read analyst reports on corporate performance with comments such as "This action taken by firm X may have raised last quarter's earnings by Y%, but will likely damage earnings 2-3 years from now. So we recommend selling this stock in spite of its earnings rise." Anyone ever seen such a comment? They should have appeared like confetti over the last 3-4 years.<u1:p></u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    Kim Warren: London Business School.<u1:p></u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    <u1:p> </u1:p>

    </u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype>


  • 4.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-10-2009 16:37
     
     
    Bill
     
    This is great news to my old ears. States will lead the way. This should be one of the components of a new and shiny system that is more fair to citizens.
     
     
    In a message dated 4/10/2009 3:06:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cfausnau@FIT.EDU writes:

    Bill

     

    Can you provide more details on the 22 states that have amended their corporate laws in the way you indicate below?    Can you name a few of the states for me?  I'd like to pursue the wording changes and see what is happening.  Also, by any chance do you have any information on the first state to make the change?  I am a Delaware CPA and have no information on the phenomenon you mention.

     

    Many thanks

    Carolyn

     

     

    Carolyn J. Fausnaugh PhD CPA

    Assistant Professor of Strategy & New Ventures

    College of Business

    Florida Institute of Technology

    150 W. University Boulevard

    Melbourne, Florida 32901 - 6975

    321-674-7375  Office Phone

    321-674-8896  FAX

    cfausnau@fit.edu  E-mail

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Ferris
    Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:54 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

     

    Kim,

    I think the fact that states in the US are slowly moving away from the shareholder model to the stakeholder model reflects a slow but identifiable rejection of the notion of profits for the shareholders over all else. More than 22 states have changed their corporate laws on this, but unfortunately, Delaware has not, and most publicly traded US companies are incorporated in Delaware. Eventually, changes will come to Delaware, too, though. Your comments on the worship of quarterly profits undermining the ultimate betterment of the firm are unfortunately too accurate. Until we all believe in corporate survival as a greater value than shareholder profit, the stakeholder model value will have serious headwinds. Alarmingly to many, though, survival as a value has achieved new meaning in the last year!

    Best,
    Bill

    <u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place">

    </u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype>
     


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  • 5.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-10-2009 18:18

    HI,

     

    Ed Freeman, the father of stakeholder theory, just advised me that actually his latest count is 41 US states and several European countries have stakeholder clauses now on the books in their corporate law.

     

    Regards,

     

       Jim

    James G. S. Clawson

    Johnson & Higgins Professor of Business Administration

    Darden GSB, University of Virginia

    Box 6550, Charlottesville, VA 22906  

    100 Darden Boulevard, Charlottesville, VA 22903  USA

    Tel:  434 924 7488              Fax:  434 243 7680

    Web:  http://faculty.darden.virginia.edu/clawsonj

     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Carolyn Fausnaugh
    Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:32 PM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

     

    Bill

     

    Can you provide more details on the 22 states that have amended their corporate laws in the way you indicate below?    Can you name a few of the states for me?  I'd like to pursue the wording changes and see what is happening.  Also, by any chance do you have any information on the first state to make the change?  I am a Delaware CPA and have no information on the phenomenon you mention.

     

    Many thanks

    Carolyn

     

     

    Carolyn J. Fausnaugh PhD CPA

    Assistant Professor of Strategy & New Ventures

    College of Business

    Florida Institute of Technology

    150 W. University Boulevard

    Melbourne, Florida 32901 - 6975

    321-674-7375  Office Phone

    321-674-8896  FAX

    cfausnau@fit.edu  E-mail

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Ferris
    Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:54 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

     

    Kim,

    I think the fact that states in the US are slowly moving away from the shareholder model to the stakeholder model reflects a slow but identifiable rejection of the notion of profits for the shareholders over all else. More than 22 states have changed their corporate laws on this, but unfortunately, Delaware has not, and most publicly traded US companies are incorporated in Delaware. Eventually, changes will come to Delaware, too, though. Your comments on the worship of quarterly profits undermining the ultimate betterment of the firm are unfortunately too accurate. Until we all believe in corporate survival as a greater value than shareholder profit, the stakeholder model value will have serious headwinds. Alarmingly to many, though, survival as a value has achieved new meaning in the last year!

    Best,
    Bill

    William P. Ferris, Ph.D.

    Professor of Management

    School of Business

    Western New England College

    1215 Wilbraham Road

    Springfield, MA 01119

     

    Tel: 413-782-1629

    Fax: 413-796-2068

     

     



    Kim Warren wrote:

    Whilst the debate on values has been useful in its own terms, could I respectfully submit that it has moved beyond the simple question of how higher ethical standards might have mitigated the current crisis and into the realm of wishful thinking.

     

    The chances of eliminating the profit motive [even if that were a good thing] are absolutely zero, or even getting it significantly moderated by higher values. Equally unlikely is that teaching ethics in business schools could eliminate from the global management community everyone who might behave wrongly – apart from anything else, many successful business people do not go through formal business education in which they might be exposed to such teaching. [By all means keep doing it, but just don't expect to have a huge impact.] It is equally fanciful to imagine we can architect a fundamentally 'different approach' to business, whatever that might be.

     

    The reality, I suggest, is that we will for the foreseeable future have to live with a world in which the profit motive continues to dominate, and in which a minority of executives and financiers seek to make themselves wealthy at the expense of others, both within accepted ethical norms [e.g. taking market share from competitors] and outside them. ... in which case, the question shifts from how we can re-engineer human nature to how we can set up systems to guard against the problems caused by its harmful excesses.

     

    No such systems are likely to be feasible until executives, investors, regulators etc. share a much stronger understanding of how any business system functions and delivers profits [and other outcomes] from quarter to quarter, year to year. To the best of my knowledge, no such model currently exists. If it did, we would have read analyst reports on corporate performance with comments such as "This action taken by firm X may have raised last quarter's earnings by Y%, but will likely damage earnings 2-3 years from now. So we recommend selling this stock in spite of its earnings rise." Anyone ever seen such a comment? They should have appeared like confetti over the last 3-4 years.

     

    Kim Warren: London Business School.

     

     

     



  • 6.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-10-2009 21:58
    Carol and Bill,

    I have been following the non-stockholder (also called stakeholder) constituency statutes that have been appearing in US state laws.  A similar proposal relating to employees was defeated in our country which is interesting in itself, since we patterned our original Corporation Law after the US model when we were occupied in the early 1900s.  Now,  our Corporate Law is even less sensitive to non-stockholders than those of Connecticut and Arizona which reportedly MANDATE that directors consider the interests of other constituencies.  I find our situation anomalous because our Constitution specifies that corporations contribute to the common good.  I wouldn't mind amendments to our law similar to those of Connecticut and Arizona.  As it is, the power of the controlling shareholders to extract value from the corporate arrangement is virtually limitless given the weak protection of employees and customers in our justice system.

    Bill would know more but the list I've seen of states which PERMIT but not mandate directors to consider the interests of non-stockholders includes Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont, Wisconsin, and Wyoming

    Carol:  I understand that Delaware has no such statute.  Given your expertise and experience in the state, do you think it will ever be considered in some form? 

    Regards,

    Ben
     
    -------------------------------
    Benito L. Teehankee, DBA
    Sen. Benigno S. Aquino Jr. associate professor in business and governance
    Ramon V. del Rosario Sr. Graduate School of Business
    De La Salle University
    Manila, Philippines
    Office: +632-5234295



    From: Carolyn Fausnaugh <cfausnau@FIT.EDU>
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:31:33 AM
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

    Bill

     

    Can you provide more details on the 22 states that have amended their corporate laws in the way you indicate below?    Can you name a few of the states for me?  I'd like to pursue the wording changes and see what is happening.  Also, by any chance do you have any information on the first state to make the change?  I am a Delaware CPA and have no information on the phenomenon you mention.

     

    Many thanks

    Carolyn

     

     

    Carolyn J. Fausnaugh PhD CPA

    Assistant Professor of Strategy & New Ventures

    College of Business

    Florida Institute of Technology

    150 W. University Boulevard

    Melbourne, Florida 32901 - 6975

    321-674-7375  Office Phone

    321-674-8896  FAX

    cfausnau@fit.edu  E-mail

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Ferris
    Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:54 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

     

    Kim,

    I think the fact that states in the US are slowly moving away from the shareholder model to the stakeholder model reflects a slow but identifiable rejection of the notion of profits for the shareholders over all else. More than 22 states have changed their corporate laws on this, but unfortunately, Delaware has not, and most publicly traded US companies are incorporated in Delaware. Eventually, changes will come to Delaware, too, though. Your comments on the worship of quarterly profits undermining the ultimate betterment of the firm are unfortunately too accurate. Until we all believe in corporate survival as a greater value than shareholder profit, the stakeholder model value will have serious headwinds. Alarmingly to many, though, survival as a value has achieved new meaning in the last year!

    Best,
    Bill

    William P. Ferris, Ph.D.

    Professor of Management

    School of Business

    Western New England College

    1215 Wilbraham Road

    Springfield , MA 01119

     

    Tel: 413-782-1629

    Fax: 413-796-2068

     

     



    Kim Warren wrote:

    Whilst the debate on values has been useful in its own terms, could I respectfully submit that it has moved beyond the simple question of how higher ethical standards might have mitigated the current crisis and into the realm of wishful thinking.

     

    The chances of eliminating the profit motive [even if that were a good thing] are absolutely zero, or even getting it significantly moderated by higher values. Equally unlikely is that teaching ethics in business schools could eliminate from the global management community everyone who might behave wrongly – apart from anything else, many successful business people do not go through formal business education in which they might be exposed to such teaching. [By all means keep doing it, but just don't expect to have a huge impact.] It is equally fanciful to imagine we can architect a fundamentally 'different approach' to business, whatever that might be.

     

    The reality, I suggest, is that we will for the foreseeable future have to live with a world in which the profit motive continues to dominate, and in which a minority of executives and financiers seek to make themselves wealthy at the expense of others, both within accepted ethical norms [e.g. taking market share from competitors] and outside them. ... in which case, the question shifts from how we can re-engineer human nature to how we can set up systems to guard against the problems caused by its harmful excesses.

     

    No such systems are likely to be feasible until executives, investors, regulators etc. share a much stronger understanding of how any business system functions and delivers profits [and other outcomes] from quarter to quarter, year to year. To the best of my knowledge, no such model currently exists. If it did, we would have read analyst reports on corporate performance with comments such as "This action taken by firm X may have raised last quarter's earnings by Y%, but will likely damage earnings 2-3 years from now. So we recommend selling this stock in spite of its earnings rise." Anyone ever seen such a comment? They should have appeared like confetti over the last 3-4 years.

     

    Kim Warren: London Business School.

     

     

     




  • 7.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-13-2009 14:47
    Dear Kim,
     
    If I remember correctly the starting point of the discussion was the question of how we can rebuild the current system to avoid the massive disruptions we currently experience. The basic assumption was that the current system has inherent flaws and that from a psychological perspective the incentives have been misaligned. Your question of whether it was competence or immoral behavior is a good one (in my eyes), and in my perspective it was probably both. Having said that, I believe that the systemic structure forcing people to 'maximize' ONE thing will necessarily lead to mindless blindness, a condition in which our vision is limited to objects we intently focus on (independent of the nature of that ONE objective ( financial or social).
     
    I am not sure that your take on the systemic changes as wishful thinking is convincing. You might be correct that a profit motive will always exist, but when talking about multiple objectives, no one is excluding a profit motive, the only point is that the profit motive in itself will not create a sustainable system. Otherwise we would not experience any crisis right now (I would venture to say, that behind the financial crisis, lures a bigger social inequity and environmental sustainability crisis). If any attempt to rethink the current system is dismissed as fanciful, I am not sure what the role of business academics is. Is it the role of the cynic?
     
    Let me suggest some points that might make a systemic shift seem less unrealistic, and let me also try to debunk some of the assumption regarding 're-engineering' human nature.
     
    -First, in the past 30 years so called third sector has grown faster than the for profit sector, in terms of resources, and number of organizations started. The growth rate of new NGO's being setup is far higher than businesses being started in the for profit sector (Herman, 2005; Drayton 2007, 2009).  That information at least points to objectives/values inherent in human beings other than profit.
    -In fact, all across the world you see policy initiatives helping to foster multiple objective organizations, such as social enterprises. In GB there is an cabinet office dealing with such changes, and it is reported that already 1 % of GDP is created by such organizations (http://www.esrcsocietytoday.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/facts/UK/Social_enterprise.aspx). That might not be much in comparison to the traditional for profit businesses, but in terms of growth potential it could demonstrate a trend.
    -Not negating the importance of organizations focusing on wealth creation, Jim Collins found that the 'great' for profit organizations do pursue higher purposes than profit. In fact, Collins and Porras find that none of the organizations built to last do pursue shareholder value maximization, because it does not inspire people at all levels of the organization (p.227 Built to Last). The Economist also finds that CSR, meaning pursuing other goals than profit maximization, is done mainly to keep employees motivated. That in turn supports that human beings as such are not only concerned with income or profit maximization.
    -A very convincing argument about human nature is made by Paul Lawrence and Nitin Nohria in 'Driven", in which they basically use insights by evolutionary biology and neuropsychology to demonstrate that humans are driven by four independent drives (drive to acquire, drive to bond, drive to comprehend, and drive to defend). These drives seem to be independent of each other, which would strongly contradict a single objective focus. In fact, in a follow up HBR piece Nohria et al, find that organizations attending to all four drives generate much higher levels of motivation than those focused on profit (d A) only.
     
    Now, I don't discount the problems arising when shifting a system, but I find that some of the above insights demonstrate that we don't have to re-engineer humans, but rather that the system needs to be re-engineered to fit humans better than it currently does.
     
    Best,
    Michael
     

    From: Kim@STRATEGYDYNAMICS.COM CTRL + Click to follow link" href="mailto:Kim@STRATEGYDYNAMICS.COM">Kim Warren
    Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:33 AM
    Subject: Performance and values

    Whilst the debate on values has been useful in its own terms, could I respectfully submit that it has moved beyond the simple question of how higher ethical standards might have mitigated the current crisis and into the realm of wishful thinking.

     

    The chances of eliminating the profit motive [even if that were a good thing] are absolutely zero, or even getting it significantly moderated by higher values. Equally unlikely is that teaching ethics in business schools could eliminate from the global management community everyone who might behave wrongly – apart from anything else, many successful business people do not go through formal business education in which they might be exposed to such teaching. [By all means keep doing it, but just don’t expect to have a huge impact.] It is equally fanciful to imagine we can architect a fundamentally ‘different approach’ to business, whatever that might be.

     

    The reality, I suggest, is that we will for the foreseeable future have to live with a world in which the profit motive continues to dominate, and in which a minority of executives and financiers seek to make themselves wealthy at the expense of others, both within accepted ethical norms [e.g. taking market share from competitors] and outside them. … in which case, the question shifts from how we can re-engineer human nature to how we can set up systems to guard against the problems caused by its harmful excesses.

     

    No such systems are likely to be feasible until executives, investors, regulators etc. share a much stronger understanding of how any business system functions and delivers profits [and other outcomes] from quarter to quarter, year to year. To the best of my knowledge, no such model currently exists. If it did, we would have read analyst reports on corporate performance with comments such as “This action taken by firm X may have raised last quarter’s earnings by Y%, but will likely damage earnings 2-3 years from now. So we recommend selling this stock in spite of its earnings rise.” Anyone ever seen such a comment? They should have appeared like confetti over the last 3-4 years.

     

    Kim Warren: London Business School.

     

     

     



  • 8.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-13-2009 16:43
    In a message dated 4/13/2009 2:28:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mpirson@FAS.HARVARD.EDU writes:
    Dear Kim,
     
    If I remember correctly the starting point of the discussion was the question of how we can rebuild the current system to avoid the massive disruptions we currently experience. The basic assumption was that the current system has inherent flaws and that from a psychological perspective the incentives have been misaligned. Your question of whether it was competence or immoral behavior is a good one (in my eyes), and in my perspective it was probably both. Having said that, I believe that the systemic structure forcing people to 'maximize' ONE thing will necessarily lead to mindless blindness, a condition in which our vision is limited to objects we intently focus on (independent of the nature of that ONE objective ( financial or social).
    Well said. I agree. Systems force good people to contribute to unintended results at the level of the system level, making it appear as though the people were to blame. We should not make this error of attribution. A single goal human organization is unrealistic for multiple  drive people.
     
     
     
    I am not sure that your take on the systemic changes as wishful thinking is convincing. You might be correct that a profit motive will always exist, but when talking about multiple objectives, no one is excluding a profit motive, the only point is that the profit motive in itself will not create a sustainable system. Otherwise we would not experience any crisis right now (I would venture to say, that behind the financial crisis, lures a bigger social inequity and environmental sustainability crisis). If any attempt to rethink the current system is dismissed as fanciful, I am not sure what the role of business academics is. Is it the role of the cynic?
    I agree. We need to keep up with our increasingly complex world or become its slaves or worse.
     
     
    Let me suggest some points that might make a systemic shift seem less unrealistic, and let me also try to debunk some of the assumption regarding 're-engineering' human nature.
    We only need to build better systems--one that warn us before they explode.
    -First, in the past 30 years so called third sector has grown faster than the for profit sector, in terms of resources, and number of organizations started. The growth rate of new NGO's being setup is far higher than businesses being started in the for profit sector (Herman, 2005; Drayton 2007, 2009).  That information at least points to objectives/values inherent in human beings other than profit.
    -In fact, all across the world you see policy initiatives helping to foster multiple objective organizations, such as social enterprises. In GB there is an cabinet office dealing with such changes, and it is reported that already 1 % of GDP is created by such organizations (http://www.esrcsocietytoday.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/facts/UK/Social_enterprise.aspx). That might not be much in comparison to the traditional for profit businesses, but in terms of growth potential it could demonstrate a trend.
    -Not negating the importance of organizations focusing on wealth creation, Jim Collins found that the 'great' for profit organizations do pursue higher purposes than profit. In fact, Collins and Porras find that none of the organizations built to last do pursue shareholder value maximization, because it does not inspire people at all levels of the organization (p.227 Built to Last). The Economist also finds that CSR, meaning pursuing other goals than profit maximization, is done mainly to keep employees motivated. That in turn supports that human beings as such are not only concerned with income or profit maximization.
    -A very convincing argument about human nature is made by Paul Lawrence and Nitin Nohria in 'Driven", in which they basically use insights by evolutionary biology and neuropsychology to demonstrate that humans are driven by four independent drives (drive to acquire, drive to bond, drive to comprehend, and drive to defend). These drives seem to be independent of each other, which would strongly contradict a single objective focus. In fact, in a follow up HBR piece Nohria et al, find that organizations attending to all four drives generate much higher levels of motivation than those focused on profit (d A) only.
     
    Now, I don't discount the problems arising when shifting a system, but I find that some of the above insights demonstrate that we don't have to re-engineer humans, but rather that the system needs to be re-engineered to fit humans better than it currently does.
    We need to dream and have hope. Please do not re-engineer us poor folk.
     
    Cheers,
     
    George
     
     
    Best,
    Michael
     

    From: Kim Warren
    Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:33 AM
    Subject: Performance and values

     


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  • 9.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-20-2009 12:00

    Apologies for being slow responding to Michael's thoughtful comments below.

     

    I recognise completely both of the encouraging points about [a] the growth of non-profit organizations and [b] the role of other objectives than profit in commercial organizations.

     

    However, re [a] the non-profit sector [and public sector too] can only exist if the commercial sector generates the wealth to support them, so profit-oriented organizations will have to continue as a large part of our economies. It is therefore important that their strategic management be done in ways that are commercially – as well as socially and environmentally - sustainable.

    Re [b] social, environmental and other values are fundamental to long-run commercial sustainability – if firms break any of these, they risk ultimate collapse, though the time-horizon may be many years.

     

    Two concerns:

     

    ·         We cannot realistically expect to make any significant difference to the diverse values amongst executives in any useful timescale, and even if we did, it would do nothing significant to prevent future problems because the most widespread problems do not reflect unethical behaviour [albeit that serious localised problems may do].

    ·         There are severe limits to what can be achieved with statutes and regulations. Quoted US firms have been obliged to provide a 'Management Discussion and Analysis' concerning the sustainability of their business and its strategy for some years [plus similar regulations in Europe and elsewhere] – none of this prevented most companies seeing a severe decline [not even those with great 'values'], and some managing to achieve total collapse.

     

    ... all of which brings me back to the original point – that inappropriate values played only a minor role in bringing about the widespread downturn, as compared with the failure of understanding amongst management, investors [and strategy academics?] regarding the links from strategic decisions, through the business system they seek to steer, and on into the trajectory of financial performance. As see no reason to revise the view I suggested some months ago, that we seem to have no 'theory' of strategy and performance that is anywhere close to being fit-for-purpose – in spite of half a century of academic research on the topic.

     

    Kim Warren: London Business School

     

     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Pirson
    Sent: 13 April 2009 19:47
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

     

    Dear Kim,

     

    If I remember correctly the starting point of the discussion was the question of how we can rebuild the current system to avoid the massive disruptions we currently experience. The basic assumption was that the current system has inherent flaws and that from a psychological perspective the incentives have been misaligned. Your question of whether it was competence or immoral behavior is a good one (in my eyes), and in my perspective it was probably both. Having said that, I believe that the systemic structure forcing people to 'maximize' ONE thing will necessarily lead to mindless blindness, a condition in which our vision is limited to objects we intently focus on (independent of the nature of that ONE objective ( financial or social).

     

    I am not sure that your take on the systemic changes as wishful thinking is convincing. You might be correct that a profit motive will always exist, but when talking about multiple objectives, no one is excluding a profit motive, the only point is that the profit motive in itself will not create a sustainable system. Otherwise we would not experience any crisis right now (I would venture to say, that behind the financial crisis, lures a bigger social inequity and environmental sustainability crisis). If any attempt to rethink the current system is dismissed as fanciful, I am not sure what the role of business academics is. Is it the role of the cynic?

     

    Let me suggest some points that might make a systemic shift seem less unrealistic, and let me also try to debunk some of the assumption regarding 're-engineering' human nature.

     

    -First, in the past 30 years so called third sector has grown faster than the for profit sector, in terms of resources, and number of organizations started. The growth rate of new NGO's being setup is far higher than businesses being started in the for profit sector (Herman, 2005; Drayton 2007, 2009).  That information at least points to objectives/values inherent in human beings other than profit.

    -In fact, all across the world you see policy initiatives helping to foster multiple objective organizations, such as social enterprises. In GB there is an cabinet office dealing with such changes, and it is reported that already 1 % of GDP is created by such organizations (http://www.esrcsocietytoday.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/facts/UK/Social_enterprise.aspx). That might not be much in comparison to the traditional for profit businesses, but in terms of growth potential it could demonstrate a trend.

    -Not negating the importance of organizations focusing on wealth creation, Jim Collins found that the 'great' for profit organizations do pursue higher purposes than profit. In fact, Collins and Porras find that none of the organizations built to last do pursue shareholder value maximization, because it does not inspire people at all levels of the organization (p.227 Built to Last). The Economist also finds that CSR, meaning pursuing other goals than profit maximization, is done mainly to keep employees motivated. That in turn supports that human beings as such are not only concerned with income or profit maximization.

    -A very convincing argument about human nature is made by Paul Lawrence and Nitin Nohria in 'Driven", in which they basically use insights by evolutionary biology and neuropsychology to demonstrate that humans are driven by four independent drives (drive to acquire, drive to bond, drive to comprehend, and drive to defend). These drives seem to be independent of each other, which would strongly contradict a single objective focus. In fact, in a follow up HBR piece Nohria et al, find that organizations attending to all four drives generate much higher levels of motivation than those focused on profit (d A) only.

     

    Now, I don't discount the problems arising when shifting a system, but I find that some of the above insights demonstrate that we don't have to re-engineer humans, but rather that the system needs to be re-engineered to fit humans better than it currently does.

     

    Best,

    Michael

     

     

    From: Kim Warren

    Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:33 AM

    Subject: Performance and values

     

    Whilst the debate on values has been useful in its own terms, could I respectfully submit that it has moved beyond the simple question of how higher ethical standards might have mitigated the current crisis and into the realm of wishful thinking.

     

    The chances of eliminating the profit motive [even if that were a good thing] are absolutely zero, or even getting it significantly moderated by higher values. Equally unlikely is that teaching ethics in business schools could eliminate from the global management community everyone who might behave wrongly – apart from anything else, many successful business people do not go through formal business education in which they might be exposed to such teaching. [By all means keep doing it, but just don't expect to have a huge impact.] It is equally fanciful to imagine we can architect a fundamentally 'different approach' to business, whatever that might be.

     

    The reality, I suggest, is that we will for the foreseeable future have to live with a world in which the profit motive continues to dominate, and in which a minority of executives and financiers seek to make themselves wealthy at the expense of others, both within accepted ethical norms [e.g. taking market share from competitors] and outside them. ... in which case, the question shifts from how we can re-engineer human nature to how we can set up systems to guard against the problems caused by its harmful excesses.

     

    No such systems are likely to be feasible until executives, investors, regulators etc. share a much stronger understanding of how any business system functions and delivers profits [and other outcomes] from quarter to quarter, year to year. To the best of my knowledge, no such model currently exists. If it did, we would have read analyst reports on corporate performance with comments such as "This action taken by firm X may have raised last quarter's earnings by Y%, but will likely damage earnings 2-3 years from now. So we recommend selling this stock in spite of its earnings rise." Anyone ever seen such a comment? They should have appeared like confetti over the last 3-4 years.

     

    Kim Warren: London Business School.

     

     

     



  • 10.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-21-2009 10:09

    Kim and Michael,

    I agree that we have not developed even an adequate descriptive model of how for profit corporations' systems react to changes in regulation enforcement and market changes.  However, I think that an economic system that expects recessions every decade or so needs to be redesigned by re-engineering our strategic design.  The theory that the corporation can be controlled like a machine system has failed too many times.  Yes, our system model has control limits and monitoring of output, but as you point out short-run thinking may create longer-run disaster.  The regulators failed to anticipate the long-term consequences of new creative accounting rules that allowed 1/3 junk mortgages to be bundled with 2/3 healthy assets and priced as all healthy packages.  These packages were traded and re-traded until the ridiculous price was too much to trade without laughing out loud.  Regulators should have blown the whistle and did, but the lobbyists convinced the appropriate congressional committees to not be concerned about it.

    One question that occurs to me is:  How do you design and implement a system that puts service above self and allows ethical employees to be heard without personal negative consequences?  Clearly, we need an improved quality control regulatory and reporting system.  The one you suggest needs to be given teeth and bite.  Why not regulate analyst's reports on corporate performance to cover details, such as, the action taken by Walmart may raise last quarter's earnings by X%, but will like damage earnings 2-3 years from now?  Perhaps, we need to train our analysts to stay on top of creative accounting with bundling junk and trading it as high quality.  Also, lobbyists need to be regulated.  A recent study found that the corporate ROI for investing in lobbyists was 22,000 percent, yes, 22,000 percent!

    This exchange has been most helpful to me in my understanding of our jerry-ridged corporate control system and how to retrofit a better one.

     

    George Graen

    /jag



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  • 11.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-22-2009 12:03

    We may be mingling two separate items in this discussion [a] a 'system' view of a business and [b] a 'system' for ensuring sound governance of the business and finance sectors generally.

     

    I have no understanding of [b] beyond what other reasonably informed business folk might know – but I really do know about [a]. George – you say the idea that 'a corporation can be controlled like a machine has failed too many times.' – can you or others point me to any examples? I'd like to know more about any past efforts in this direction

     

    Thanks - Kim

     

     

     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of George Graen
    Sent: 21 April 2009 15:09
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

     

    Kim and Michael,

    I agree that we have not developed even an adequate descriptive model of how for profit corporations' systems react to changes in regulation enforcement and market changes.  However, I think that an economic system that expects recessions every decade or so needs to be redesigned by re-engineering our strategic design.  The theory that the corporation can be controlled like a machine system has failed too many times.  Yes, our system model has control limits and monitoring of output, but as you point out short-run thinking may create longer-run disaster.  The regulators failed to anticipate the long-term consequences of new creative accounting rules that allowed 1/3 junk mortgages to be bundled with 2/3 healthy assets and priced as all healthy packages.  These packages were traded and re-traded until the ridiculous price was too much to trade without laughing out loud.  Regulators should have blown the whistle and did, but the lobbyists convinced the appropriate congressional committees to not be concerned about it.

    One question that occurs to me is:  How do you design and implement a system that puts service above self and allows ethical employees to be heard without personal negative consequences?  Clearly, we need an improved quality control regulatory and reporting system.  The one you suggest needs to be given teeth and bite.  Why not regulate analyst's reports on corporate performance to cover details, such as, the action taken by Walmart may raise last quarter's earnings by X%, but will like damage earnings 2-3 years from now?  Perhaps, we need to train our analysts to stay on top of creative accounting with bundling junk and trading it as high quality.  Also, lobbyists need to be regulated.  A recent study found that the corporate ROI for investing in lobbyists was 22,000 percent, yes, 22,000 percent!

    This exchange has been most helpful to me in my understanding of our jerry-ridged corporate control system and how to retrofit a better one.

     

    George Graen

    /jag

     


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  • 12.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-22-2009 12:55
    In a message dated 4/22/2009 11:37:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Kim@STRATEGYDYNAMICS.COM writes:

    may be mingling two separate items in this discussion [a] a 'system' view of a business and [b] a 'system' for ensuring sound governance of the business and finance sectors generally.

     

    I have no understanding of [b] beyond what other reasonably informed business folk might know – but I really do know about [a]. George – you say the idea that 'a corporation can be controlled like a machine has failed too many times.' – can you or others point me to any examples? I'd like to know more about any past efforts in this direction

     

    Thanks - Kim

     Kim,

     
    Please read the two latest books in my Lmx Leadership: The Series (2008 & 2009 ) Published by Info Age Publishing. After that we can exchange views. Okay?
     
    Cheers,
     
    George Graen 

     

     


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  • 13.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-23-2009 03:43

    Sorry George – not buying books on the off-chance they might offer answers to a simple short question.

    If examples exist of failed efforts to control a corporation like a machine, then they should be pretty visible, so just let us know the cases.  If they look interesting and important, that will be an incentive to find out more.

    Kim

     

     

     

    From: Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of George Graen
    Sent: 22 April 2009 17:55
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Performance and values

     

    In a message dated 4/22/2009 11:37:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Kim@STRATEGYDYNAMICS.COM writes:

    may be mingling two separate items in this discussion [a] a 'system' view of a business and [b] a 'system' for ensuring sound governance of the business and finance sectors generally.

     

    I have no understanding of [b] beyond what other reasonably informed business folk might know – but I really do know about [a]. George – you say the idea that 'a corporation can be controlled like a machine has failed too many times.' – can you or others point me to any examples? I'd like to know more about any past efforts in this direction

     

    Thanks - Kim

    Kim,

     

    Please read the two latest books in my Lmx Leadership: The Series (2008 & 2009 ) Published by Info Age Publishing. After that we can exchange views. Okay?

     

    Cheers,

     

    George Graen 

     

     

     


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  • 14.  Performance and values

    Posted 04-23-2009 17:59

    Hi Bob,

     

    Thank you for your passionate response to my rambling flow of consciousness.  You are a valued colleague.

    Let me read between the lines as a psychologist and respond to both your denotation and what I perceive as your connotation.  Please correct me if I misperceive your positions.

    I think that the people's original contract with corporations was naive and inadequate to keep them good citizens.  We trusted that those who would control corporations would be good citizens first and self-serving, capitalists second.  We were wrong in too many cases.

    I understand that you are content with our present corporate-state complex even when it permitted a world-wide near depression in 9-11-2008.  What the 9-11-2001 attack failed to do, our corporate citizens did.  I don't fully understand why a complex that you curse so boldly is defended as the best we can do.  Shame on you!

    I also do not understand why you reject a knowledge-driven approach to a system that grew by court trial and error and court trial as a successive approximation to become what the most powerful barons wanted.  Why not get ahead of this painful process in which best lawyers win for the fat cats?  Why cannot President Obama convince our politicians to be true to their oath and bring the best experts together on this project to jump start a revision improves the system?  I may be as cynical as you about the current mess, but I think that if we put country ahead of our corporations, we can do better.

    22,000 percent ROI for my lobbyists is an indictment of politicians and lobbyists.  As U.S. Senator Blanche Lincoln told me last week, she is my lobbyist.  I told her God speed and clean up the undue influence problems in <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Washington</st1:place></st1:state>.  She said she would do her best.

    I agree that:

    Ø    We need to reject change for change sake, because we are trading a well-known set of problems for an unknown set.

    Ø    We need to reject change, if it doesn't keep the profit motive under the law and our social contract.

    Ø    We need to reject change, if it unduly restricts legitimate business practices.

    Ø    We need to punish those who broke the law.

    Ø    We need to keep our regulators awake at the switch ("Hell of a job Brownie").

    Ø    We need to promote "due diligence" of stakeholders interests.

    Ø    We need to swing the pendulum back toward the middle and conclude as economists have recently discovered crap flows down hill not wealth.  Stop ritualistically fattening the already fat cats.

    Ø    We need to be more open and flexible in our service above self.  You and I have only a short period to make a difference and I think we can.

    Cheers,

    George Graen, Ph.D. Professor (Ret.)

    Center for Strategic Management Studies

    /jag

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    In a message dated 4/23/2009 7:58:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bobgately@verizon.net writes:

    Hello George:

    "I agree that we have not developed even an adequate descriptive model of how for profit corporations' systems react to changes in regulation enforcement and market changes."

    Perhaps that is true because we are incapable of knowing what an individual may do, let alone a corporation, when confronted by unexpected and even expected change.  

    One thing I know for sure is that the experts will scratch their heads and say "We didn't see that coming."

    "However, I think that an economic system that expects recessions every decade or so needs to be redesigned by re-engineering our strategic design."

    Oh my god, I hope you did not mean what you wrote,

    Any attempt to rescind the business cycle will lead to disaster but we all know that the experts will scratch their heads and say "We didn't see that coming" when the change fails to achieve its goal

    "The theory that the corporation can be controlled like a machine system has failed too many times."

    Who espouses that theory?

    "Yes, our system model has control limits and monitoring of output, but as you point out short-run thinking may create longer-run disaster."

    Then don't mess with what we have.

    "The regulators failed to anticipate the long-term consequences of new creative accounting rules that allowed 1/3 junk mortgages to be bundled with 2/3 healthy assets and priced as all healthy packages."

    I don't think that is true since the people who regulate the regulators, i.e., Congress, denied the regulators the laws they needed to avoid the crisis.

    "These packages were traded and re-traded until the ridiculous price was too much to trade without laughing out loud."

    Yet many graduates of the best schools continued to buy them until the bottom fell out.

    "Regulators should have blown the whistle and did, but the lobbyists convinced the appropriate congressional committees to not be concerned about it."

    We are on the same page now. The lobbyists were Fannie and Freddie Mac, Acorn, community organizers, and others with their extreme political agendas.

    "One question that occurs to me is:  How do you design and implement a system that puts service above self and allows ethical employees to be heard without personal negative consequences?"

    You don't.

    "Clearly, we need an improved quality control regulatory and reporting system."

    Actually we need people with backbones who are not afraid to be called racists when they call a heart a heart.

    "The one you suggest needs to be given teeth and bite."

    Law makers make the rules and they are not about to create system that takes their teeth out of the process.

    "Why not regulate analyst's reports on corporate performance to cover details, such as, the action taken by Walmart may raise last quarter's earnings by X%, but will like damage earnings 2-3 years from now?"

    The problem is not the data the problem is the conclusions we draw from the data. Are you suggesting we make it illegal to draw the wrong conclusions? I want to be in charge of deciding what are correct conclusions.

    "Perhaps, we need to train our analysts to stay on top of creative accounting with bundling junk and trading it as high quality."

    Perhaps we need to teach the buyers of junk not to buy junk-that is much easier than trying to fix the unscrupulous among us.

    "Also, lobbyists need to be regulated."

    Why are politicians so easily corrupted?  

    Perhaps politicians need to be regulated? Oh they are, but the voters keep returning them to office for multiple decades.  

    "A recent study found that the corporate ROI for investing in lobbyists was 22,000 percent, yes, 22,000 percent!"

     I see that as an indictment of politicians not of lobbyists. 

    "This exchange has been most helpful to me in my understanding of our jerry-ridged corporate control system and how to retrofit a better one."

     After all these years the evil doers are still doing their evil things but I cannot imagine what evil things the evil doers will do when confronted by a new, untried system designed by well-meaning academics who cannot fix their own bureaucracies and then changed by our malevolent politicians.

     We need to reject change for change sake.

     We need to reject change if it interferes with the profit motive.

     We need to reject change if it interferes with doing business.

     Perhaps what we need to do is punish those that broke the laws by writing bad loans. Oh wait, that was government policy.

     We need to prevent government from sticking their dirty little fingers in the loan business.

     We need to prevent the government from reducing the risk of making bad loans.

     Bob

    Robert F. Gately, PE, MBA

    Gately Consulting

     


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