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  • 1.  Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate

    Posted 05-22-2009 08:31
    Greetings!

    I am interested in discussing course content (Rigor vs. Relevance), and
    classroom methodology (Andragogy vs. Pedagogy)in business schools. After
    an extensive literature review I believe that understanding how each
    content-methodology combination affect learning outcomes in management
    schools may lead to the creation of a model to follow in society’s efforts
    to adequately prepare individuals to undertake managerial roles.

    I am examining whether there is a correlation between relevance focused
    courses and rigor focused courses with pedagogical instructional methods
    or andragogical instructional methods in management schools, and how it
    affects students learning behavior and final course grades.

    What is the sentiment you as a business professor or student have in
    relation to these topics? Can a content of say, 70% relevance and 30%
    rigor be better served using an andragogical methodology (collaborative
    learning)? What about a 20% rigor and 80% relevance content using a
    pedagogical methodology (lecturing)?

    At this time I am in the process of completing my dissertation on this
    topic. I would like to continue work relating to possibly finding
    a "formula" or "model" for the most appropriate content-methodology
    approach to management education--highly debated in the literature!

    Anyone with suggestions, comments, or interest in conducting a large scale
    study on the subject, contact me at alroldan911@htmail.com

    Best Regards,

    Albeto Roldan


  • 2.  Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate

    Posted 05-22-2009 21:12
    Greetings back from the soggy central west coastal Florida! Glad to
    hear you have made it past the exam stage and are now onto your
    dissertation.

    What you are suggesting seems to be more a problem of semantics as
    each class one teaches sets up different "rules". It seems you are
    trying to be prescriptive as to how to structure a class (between the
    pedagogical and andragogical perspectives) as well as determine
    whether to concentrate on rigor or relevance. How would you propose
    determining what is already going on before making a new
    recommendation? Is this survey, quantitative documented data, or
    observational?

    Part of your issue is to determine the character of a "class". Each
    one is different, depending on age, experience, maturity, and (this
    is the toughest one) the cohesion/connectivity within the class and
    with the instructor to say nothing of the course topic, level, and
    institutional expectations regarding style, content, and culture.

    The project seems to be much bigger than a dissertation. Is there a
    way of breaking it into smaller pieces so that one of them becomes the
    dissertation (getting it finished in a reasonable timeframe) and the
    others are the "future research projects". What kinds of things can
    you test at this point? Just some thoughts.

    Is your mentor giving you any assistance? Who is it?

    On a different note: 1. How is your son? 2. How was the exam
    process? I am due to take them this summer. Good to hear from you. DEB
    On May 22, 2009, at 8:30 AM, Alberto Roldan wrote:

    > Greetings!
    >
    > I am interested in discussing course content (Rigor vs. Relevance),
    > and
    > classroom methodology (Andragogy vs. Pedagogy)in business schools.
    > After
    > an extensive literature review I believe that understanding how each
    > content-methodology combination affect learning outcomes in management
    > schools may lead to the creation of a model to follow in society’s
    > efforts
    > to adequately prepare individuals to undertake managerial roles.
    >
    > I am examining whether there is a correlation between relevance
    > focused
    > courses and rigor focused courses with pedagogical instructional
    > methods
    > or andragogical instructional methods in management schools, and how
    > it
    > affects students learning behavior and final course grades.
    >
    > What is the sentiment you as a business professor or student have in
    > relation to these topics? Can a content of say, 70% relevance and 30%
    > rigor be better served using an andragogical methodology
    > (collaborative
    > learning)? What about a 20% rigor and 80% relevance content using a
    > pedagogical methodology (lecturing)?
    >
    > At this time I am in the process of completing my dissertation on this
    > topic. I would like to continue work relating to possibly finding
    > a "formula" or "model" for the most appropriate content-methodology
    > approach to management education--highly debated in the literature!
    >
    > Anyone with suggestions, comments, or interest in conducting a large
    > scale
    > study on the subject, contact me at alroldan911@htmail.com
    >
    > Best Regards,
    >
    > Albeto Roldan
    >


  • 3.  Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate

    Posted 05-23-2009 03:24
    Wow. Sounds a "bit" courageous for a dissertation. To have anything relevant to say you'll probably be making so many assumptions that the message will be completely bland.
    How will you account for
    - culture
    - age distribution
    - past experience distribution of the class
    - Teacher experience,
    Etc.

    If you do go down this path, why not focus on MBA participants. There was some past work by Kolb that correlated high GMAT to high Conceptual based learning. If this is the case, how would you define a good MBA course.

    The danger of course is that you'll be making a recommendation that reinforces a learning style rather than helping them develop new skills to become more learning agile. How do you measure "success" of the recommended format? Test results - short term? Career impact - long term? Etc.

    If I recall, there was some macro level data in the BusinessWeek MBA surveys conducted over the last several years - % case study, % teamwork etc. Does the structure link to the rankings of MBA in some way?


    Daniel S. EVANS Ph.D.
    Chief Innovation Officer
    EMLYON Executive Education



    +33 4 78 33 79 63 (fixed)
    +33 6 78 41 42 59 (mobile)
    evans@em-lyon.com

    " I am always ready to learn although I do not always like to be taught" - Winston Churchill


    -----Message d'origine-----
    De : Management Education and Development Discussion [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Alberto Roldan
    Envoyé : vendredi 22 mai 2009 14:31
    À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Objet : Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate

    Greetings!

    I am interested in discussing course content (Rigor vs. Relevance), and
    classroom methodology (Andragogy vs. Pedagogy)in business schools. After
    an extensive literature review I believe that understanding how each
    content-methodology combination affect learning outcomes in management
    schools may lead to the creation of a model to follow in society's efforts
    to adequately prepare individuals to undertake managerial roles.

    I am examining whether there is a correlation between relevance focused
    courses and rigor focused courses with pedagogical instructional methods
    or andragogical instructional methods in management schools, and how it
    affects students learning behavior and final course grades.

    What is the sentiment you as a business professor or student have in
    relation to these topics? Can a content of say, 70% relevance and 30%
    rigor be better served using an andragogical methodology (collaborative
    learning)? What about a 20% rigor and 80% relevance content using a
    pedagogical methodology (lecturing)?

    At this time I am in the process of completing my dissertation on this
    topic. I would like to continue work relating to possibly finding
    a "formula" or "model" for the most appropriate content-methodology
    approach to management education--highly debated in the literature!

    Anyone with suggestions, comments, or interest in conducting a large scale
    study on the subject, contact me at alroldan911@htmail.com

    Best Regards,

    Albeto Roldan

    ----
    Ce message electronique et tous les fichiers attaches qu'il contient sont confidentiels et destines exclusivement à l'usage de la personne à laquelle ils sont adresses. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, merci de le retourner à son metteur. Les idees et opinions presentees dans ce message sont celles de son auteur, et ne representent pas necessairement celles de l'institution ou entite affiliee dont l'auteur est l'employe. La publication, l'usage, la distribution, l'impression ou la copie non autorisee de ce message et des attachements qu'il contient sont strictement interdits.

    This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender. The ideas and views expressed in this email are solely those of its author, and do not necessarily represent the views of the institution or company of which the author is an employee. Unauthorized publication, use, distribution, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is strictly forbidden.


  • 4.  Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate

    Posted 05-25-2009 09:28
    Dr. Evans,

    Thank you very much for the reply! The issues you mentioned regarding
    culture, age distribution, etc., are things that will probably be
    recommended for future research within the study. This topic is of great
    interest to me and I would like to do a longitudinal study taking into
    consideration those variables. The dissertation is the building block for my
    work, sort of speak.

    Now, focusing on MBA programs have been done to death and it may be
    counter-productive! The literature argues for and against MBA programs and
    they seem to attract a very specific population who, may not necessarily are
    what society sees running businesses. Of course, some do and have received
    notieriety as in the Enron case and so on. Nonetheless, I want to focus on
    the majority--individuals persuing an undergraduate degree in order to
    either enter the workforce or be promoted.

    I believe that focusing on a particular learning style may open the doors to
    better prepared business graduates. I guess that is the premise of my
    dissertation, I want to find out if it does make a difference. One problem I
    see hapenning is that we give too much emphasis to content, but have
    forgotten about the art of teaching and learning altogether.

    How many business professors are really trained in teaqching methods? I
    believe that having a PhD does not prepares anyone to teach unless the PhD
    is in education. Thus, providing a model of how to teach to highly competent
    business professionals seems like a good idea in order to serve society
    better. Therefore, I believe that, for example, an optometrist should not be
    teaching business courses and telling business PhDs about business strategy
    due to the lack of formal education in such a matter. On the same token, a
    business professional should not tell the optometrist how to perform an eye
    exam. Let the experts handle what they know! Therefore, business professors
    without formal training in education should be given a model to follow. Due
    to the debates ensuing in the literature today, it is obvious that what we
    are currently doing may not be optimal.

    Dr. Evans, thank you immensly for the discussion! I know the issues
    discussed here run deep with people and some will argue for it, others will
    not! That is what makes this forum great!

    Kindest Regards,

    Alberto Roldan, MBA






    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of EVANS Daniel
    Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 3:24 AM
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the
    rigor-relevance debate

    Wow. Sounds a "bit" courageous for a dissertation. To have anything relevant
    to say you'll probably be making so many assumptions that the message will
    be completely bland.
    How will you account for
    - culture
    - age distribution
    - past experience distribution of the class
    - Teacher experience,
    Etc.

    If you do go down this path, why not focus on MBA participants. There was
    some past work by Kolb that correlated high GMAT to high Conceptual based
    learning. If this is the case, how would you define a good MBA course.

    The danger of course is that you'll be making a recommendation that
    reinforces a learning style rather than helping them develop new skills to
    become more learning agile. How do you measure "success" of the recommended
    format? Test results - short term? Career impact - long term? Etc.

    If I recall, there was some macro level data in the BusinessWeek MBA surveys
    conducted over the last several years - % case study, % teamwork etc. Does
    the structure link to the rankings of MBA in some way?


    Daniel S. EVANS Ph.D.
    Chief Innovation Officer
    EMLYON Executive Education



    +33 4 78 33 79 63 (fixed)
    +33 6 78 41 42 59 (mobile)
    evans@em-lyon.com

    " I am always ready to learn although I do not always like to be taught" -
    Winston Churchill


    -----Message d'origine-----
    De : Management Education and Development Discussion
    [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Alberto Roldan Envoyé :
    vendredi 22 mai 2009 14:31 À : MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU Objet : Doctoral
    Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate

    Greetings!

    I am interested in discussing course content (Rigor vs. Relevance), and
    classroom methodology (Andragogy vs. Pedagogy)in business schools. After an
    extensive literature review I believe that understanding how each
    content-methodology combination affect learning outcomes in management
    schools may lead to the creation of a model to follow in society's efforts
    to adequately prepare individuals to undertake managerial roles.

    I am examining whether there is a correlation between relevance focused
    courses and rigor focused courses with pedagogical instructional methods or
    andragogical instructional methods in management schools, and how it affects
    students learning behavior and final course grades.

    What is the sentiment you as a business professor or student have in
    relation to these topics? Can a content of say, 70% relevance and 30% rigor
    be better served using an andragogical methodology (collaborative learning)?
    What about a 20% rigor and 80% relevance content using a pedagogical
    methodology (lecturing)?

    At this time I am in the process of completing my dissertation on this
    topic. I would like to continue work relating to possibly finding a
    "formula" or "model" for the most appropriate content-methodology approach
    to management education--highly debated in the literature!

    Anyone with suggestions, comments, or interest in conducting a large scale
    study on the subject, contact me at alroldan911@htmail.com

    Best Regards,

    Albeto Roldan

    ----
    Ce message electronique et tous les fichiers attaches qu'il contient sont
    confidentiels et destines exclusivement à l'usage de la personne à laquelle
    ils sont adresses. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, merci de le
    retourner à son metteur. Les idees et opinions presentees dans ce message
    sont celles de son auteur, et ne representent pas necessairement celles de
    l'institution ou entite affiliee dont l'auteur est l'employe. La
    publication, l'usage, la distribution, l'impression ou la copie non
    autorisee de ce message et des attachements qu'il contient sont strictement
    interdits.

    This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
    solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
    If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender. The
    ideas and views expressed in this email are solely those of its author, and
    do not necessarily represent the views of the institution or company of
    which the author is an employee. Unauthorized publication, use,
    distribution, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is
    strictly forbidden.


  • 5.  Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate

    Posted 05-26-2009 10:31
    Alberto, the next issue (June 2009) of AMLE will feature an article by Robert Rubin and Erich Dierdorff that examines the entire population of U.S.-based AACSB International-accredited MBA programs on the degree of fit between most desired managerial competencies and the extent to which these programs address these competencies in their core curricula.  A preliminary version of this article is now available for AOM members on the Academy of Management's "In Press" site.  http://journals.aomonline.org/InPress/

    Hope this is helpful, Ben
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Alberto Roldan <alroldan911@HOTMAIL.COM>
    Date: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:45 am
    Subject: Re: Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate
    To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU

    > Dr. Evans,
    >
    > Thank you very much for the reply! The issues you mentioned regarding
    > culture, age distribution, etc., are things that will probably be
    > recommended for future research within the study. This topic is
    > of great
    > interest to me and I would like to do a longitudinal study
    > taking into
    > consideration those variables. The dissertation is the building
    > block for my
    > work, sort of speak.
    >
    > Now, focusing on MBA programs have been done to death and it may be
    > counter-productive! The literature argues for and against MBA
    > programs and
    > they seem to attract a very specific population who, may not
    > necessarily are
    > what society sees running businesses. Of course, some do and
    > have received
    > notieriety as in the Enron case and so on. Nonetheless, I want
    > to focus on
    > the majority--individuals persuing an undergraduate degree in
    > order to
    > either enter the workforce or be promoted.
    >
    > I believe that focusing on a particular learning style may open
    > the doors to
    > better prepared business graduates. I guess that is the premise
    > of my
    > dissertation, I want to find out if it does make a difference.
    > One problem I
    > see hapenning is that we give too much emphasis to content, but have
    > forgotten about the art of teaching and learning altogether.
    >
    > How many business professors are really trained in teaqching
    > methods? I
    > believe that having a PhD does not prepares anyone to teach
    > unless the PhD
    > is in education. Thus, providing a model of how to teach to
    > highly competent
    > business professionals seems like a good idea in order to serve
    > societybetter. Therefore, I believe that, for example, an
    > optometrist should not be
    > teaching business courses and telling business PhDs about
    > business strategy
    > due to the lack of formal education in such a matter. On the
    > same token, a
    > business professional should not tell the optometrist how to
    > perform an eye
    > exam. Let the experts handle what they know! Therefore, business
    > professorswithout formal training in education should be given a
    > model to follow. Due
    > to the debates ensuing in the literature today, it is obvious
    > that what we
    > are currently doing may not be optimal.
    >
    > Dr. Evans, thank you immensly for the discussion! I know the issues
    > discussed here run deep with people and some will argue for it,
    > others will
    > not! That is what makes this forum great!
    >
    > Kindest Regards,
    >
    > Alberto Roldan, MBA
    >  
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Management Education and Development Discussion
    > [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of EVANS Daniel
    > Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 3:24 AM
    > To: MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: Re: Doctoral Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the
    > rigor-relevance debate
    >
    > Wow. Sounds a "bit" courageous for a dissertation. To have
    > anything relevant
    > to say you'll probably be making so many assumptions that the
    > message will
    > be completely bland.
    > How will you account for
    > - culture
    > - age distribution
    > - past experience distribution of the class
    > - Teacher experience,
    > Etc.
    >
    > If you do go down this path, why not focus on MBA participants.
    > There was
    > some past work by Kolb that correlated high GMAT to high
    > Conceptual based
    > learning. If this is the case, how would you define a good MBA course.
    >
    > The danger of course is that you'll be making a recommendation that
    > reinforces a learning style rather than helping them develop new
    > skills to
    > become more learning agile. How do you measure "success" of the
    > recommendedformat? Test results - short term? Career impact -
    > long term? Etc.
    >
    > If I recall, there was some macro level data in the BusinessWeek
    > MBA surveys
    > conducted over the last several years - % case study, % teamwork
    > etc.  Does
    > the structure link to the rankings of MBA in some way?
    >  
    >
    > Daniel S. EVANS Ph.D.
    > Chief Innovation Officer
    > EMLYON Executive Education
    >
    >
    >
    > +33 4 78 33 79 63 (fixed)
    > +33 6 78 41 42 59 (mobile)
    > evans@em-lyon.com
    >
    > " I am always ready to learn although I do not always like to be
    > taught" -
    > Winston Churchill
    >
    >
    > -----Message d'origine-----
    > De : Management Education and Development Discussion
    > [mailto:MG-ED-DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] De la part de Alberto Roldan
    > Envoyé :vendredi 22 mai 2009 14:31 À : MG-ED-
    > DV@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU Objet : Doctoral
    > Dissertation: Andragogy vs. Pedagogy and the rigor-relevance debate
    >
    > Greetings!
    >
    > I am interested in discussing course content (Rigor vs.
    > Relevance), and
    > classroom methodology (Andragogy vs. Pedagogy)in business
    > schools. After an
    > extensive literature review I believe that understanding how each
    > content-methodology combination affect learning outcomes in management
    > schools may lead to the creation of a model to follow in
    > society's efforts
    > to adequately prepare individuals to undertake managerial roles.
    >
    > I am examining whether there is a correlation between relevance
    > focusedcourses and rigor focused courses with pedagogical
    > instructional methods or
    > andragogical instructional methods in management schools, and
    > how it affects
    > students learning behavior and final course grades.
    >
    > What is the sentiment you as a business professor or student
    > have in
    > relation to these topics? Can a content of say, 70% relevance
    > and 30% rigor
    > be better served using an andragogical methodology
    > (collaborative learning)?
    > What about a 20% rigor and 80% relevance content using a pedagogical
    > methodology (lecturing)?
    >
    > At this time I am in the process of completing my dissertation
    > on this
    > topic. I would like to continue work relating to possibly
    > finding a
    > "formula" or "model" for the most appropriate content-
    > methodology approach
    > to management education--highly debated in the literature!
    >
    > Anyone with suggestions, comments, or interest in conducting a
    > large scale
    > study on the subject, contact me at alroldan911@htmail.com
    >
    > Best Regards,
    >
    > Albeto Roldan
    >
    > ----
    > Ce message electronique et tous les fichiers attaches qu'il
    > contient sont
    > confidentiels et destines exclusivement à l'usage de la personne
    > à laquelle
    > ils sont adresses. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur,
    > merci de le
    > retourner à son metteur. Les idees et opinions presentees dans
    > ce message
    > sont celles de son auteur, et ne representent pas necessairement
    > celles de
    > l'institution ou entite affiliee dont l'auteur est l'employe. La
    > publication, l'usage, la distribution, l'impression ou la copie non
    > autorisee de ce message et des attachements qu'il contient sont
    > strictementinterdits.
    >
    > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
    > and intended
    > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
    > addressed.If you have received this email in error please return
    > it to the sender. The
    > ideas and views expressed in this email are solely those of its
    > author, and
    > do not necessarily represent the views of the institution or
    > company of
    > which the author is an employee. Unauthorized publication, use,
    > distribution, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached
    > files is
    > strictly forbidden.

    J. B. (Ben) Arbaugh, Ph.D.
    Editor, Academy of Management Learning & Education
    College of Business
    University of Wisconsin Oshkosh
    e-mail: arbaugh@uwosh.edu  Phone: (920) 424-7189
    http://journals.aomonline.org/amle/
    "What are you reading?"